# I'm getting mighty tired of the Religious Right... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365 "2003-10-08T22:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/1 "2003-10-08T22:24:08Z")
First of all, I probably shouldn’t be reading so many websites/blogs written by folks on the opposite side of the political spectrum, especially the comment section. Yes, I know I should be open minded, and yes, I know that it’s a useful and educational thing to do, but my blood pressure just can’t handle it a lot of the time, especially, as I said, in the reader commentaries. Maybe when my life settles down a little. But that’s tangential to my main message, as seen in the topic. I’m getting mighty sick of the Religious Right, and its pious mewlings about many, many things, including: [ul] [li]Abstinence will always keep teens from having sex, so any mention of safe sex whatsoever is evil and must be suppressed - oh, and family planning is equally immoral.[/li][li]Christians are being oppressed or discriminated against. No, **idiots** are being discriminated against. Oh, and those who break the laws of the land, too.[/li][li]But most of all, I’m sick of anything that has to do with their version of “family values.” Yes, families are good, and important. But apparently your idea of what constitutes such is a mite limited. If I never have to hear another “homosexuality is a sin because the Bible says so,” or another “Adam and Steve” bit, or another unsupported assertion about how gays are ruining families, or just plain violent homophobia, it’ll be too soon. [/li][/ul] I suppose I could be putting my words better, as to not sound so much like I’m railing against all Christians or organized religion in general or whatever. I know all about freedom of speech, and I treasure it, and they even make good points at times, even if I don’t think it applies to what they want it to apply to (e.g. what’s right isn’t determined by simple majorities). But damn, I’m tired of these people, their efforts, and the policymakers who pander to them… ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/2 "2003-10-08T22:42:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Leaper \* > Christians are being oppressed or discriminated against. No, **idiots** are being discriminated against. Oh, and those who break the laws of the land, too.But damn, I’m tired of these people, their efforts, and the policymakers who pander to them… \*\* I think I’ll pick this one. Some Christians complain that Christians are being oppressed or discriminated against. Some are. Some homosexuals complain that homosexuals are being oppressed or discriminated against. Some are. Some black people complain that black people are being oppressed or discriminated against. Some are. I’m not saying that the type and level of opression and discrimination suffered by these three groups are equal or that one is more important. I’m saying that I think it’s important to realize that yes, **some** people _are_ being discriminated against or opressed because they’re Christian. You wouldn’t assume the black people and the gay people who complain that they’re being opressed and discriminated against are all automatically idiots, would you? Oh, but Christianity is wrong, so discrimination against them doesn’t count. Sorry, I forgot. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/3 "2003-10-08T22:46:41Z")
Aren’t chrsitians being jailed and killed for their faith in other countries? I’ve heard this, but I’d like some proof. thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/4 "2003-10-08T22:53:17Z")
**vanilla** : I believe so, and that’s a tragedy. But most of the time such is brought up, it’s in the context of the U.S., so I don’t think it’s relevant. As for the rest… I’m a little confused. When did I say Christianity was wrong? It may be right, for all I know. And I don’t think I’m being hypocritical, myself (but then, people rarely do). Perhaps I’d be more convinced that there is institutional discrimination against Christians in America if it weren’t for the context in which such accusations are often brought up (like the Ten Commandments flap in Alabama)… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/5 "2003-10-09T00:31:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Leaper \* > **…Abstinence will always keep teens from having sex…** Well, that one is true - it’s tautological - the very moment they stop the abstinence, the sex begins, when they stop having sex, the abstinence can start again - see? - therefore the Earth was created 6000 years ago on a Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/6 "2003-10-09T03:19:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, that one is true - it’s tautological - the very moment they stop the abstinence, the sex begins, when they stop having sex, the abstinence can start again - see? - therefore the Earth was created 6000 years ago on a Tuesday. Yay for tautology! Self defining situations are so convinient for any extremist group. “Why is this right?” “Well…because it says it is.” “What’s it?” “You know…IT!” Its enough to make you want to just bitch slap someone. To address the OP, if you’re tired of it you have to become the antipithy (SIC?) of it. If you’re anti-right wing religous fanatic, you’ve got to attempt to organize and counter it, or suck it up, because they’re not going anywhere. When I was at USC-Sumter, there was an administrator named Frank who ran the Student Union, as well as a ‘club’ called the BCS (Baptict College Students.) BCS had the second largetst budget (next to the AAAS, the Alliance of African American Students) even though BCS only had six members. The Outdoor Adventure Club, my group, recieved for a semester a total of $122.40 for use. BCS got over $10,000. The thirty members of OAC went to the board and they denied our request for increased funds. So…we changed our consitution to say that we were an organization of non-denominational religous students who sought to commune with nature. The next semester we recieved some $7,300. We FORCED a change in the statis quo by organizing and putting up a fight. Thats what you’ve got to do. ---
**Author:** ![Voodoochile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/898d66/32.png) [@Voodoochile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voodoochile)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/7 "2003-10-09T03:36:12Z")
Like I always say, the reason the rest of us need the right to keep and bear arms is the existance of the religous right. I see nothing wrong at all with descriminating against religous freaks. Being religous is a choice, being black or gay isnt (well, for many gay people anyway, not all). I admit it, I have a hard time having respect for someone if I find out they base their decisions in life on their religous beliefs. Those who keep it to themselves, those to whom their religon is a personal, private thing, I have no problem with at all, simply because I dont know about it. But yeah, with some exceptions, I wont patronize a business if there is all kinds of religous paraphenalia around. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/8 "2003-10-09T04:21:15Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m saying that I think it’s important to realize that yes, some people are being discriminated against or opressed because they’re Christian. Cite? Specifically, a cite describing an instance in which a Christian is being discriminated for his religion and not becausae he is violating the First Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/9 "2003-10-09T05:16:31Z")
If they were persecuted, and subsequently vindicated through the courts, does that count? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/10 "2003-10-09T13:51:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Garfield226 \* > \*\*If they were persecuted, and subsequently vindicated through the courts, does that count? \*\* That would be good for a start. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/11 "2003-10-09T14:08:21Z")
**Leaper** , I’m assuming that you’re in the United States - one thing I’ve noticed from being on these boards is that the US is much more oppressive about religion than Canada is. I don’t think I could stand living in a country where people feel free to condemn me to my face and harass me because I don’t believe exactly what they believe (I’ve seen people lamenting over both of these things many times on these boards). As for religion and politics - I just found out last year what religion my Prime Minister is, and I couldn’t have cared less when I did. I have absolutely no idea about the faith of any of our leaders, and I like it that way. That’s the trouble with evangelical religions - they just can’t leave other people alone. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/12 "2003-10-09T14:10:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Well, that one is true - it’s tautological - the very moment they stop the abstinence, the sex begins, when they stop having sex, the abstinence can start again - see? - therefore the Earth was created 6000 years ago on a Tuesday. \*\* It was a Monday!😉 Actually, when I was young, I decided to be abstinate because of fear of pregnancy. THAT angle could work a lot better than religious reasons. vanilla notreallyafundie ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Belanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Jay\_Belanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Belanger)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/13 "2003-10-09T14:35:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Garfield226 \* > \*\*I think I’ll pick this one. > > Some Christians complain that Christians are being oppressed or discriminated against. Some are. > > Some homosexuals complain that homosexuals are being oppressed or discriminated against. Some are. > > Some black people complain that black people are being oppressed or discriminated against. Some are. > > I’m not saying that the type and level of opression and discrimination suffered by these three groups are equal or that one is more important. > \*\* Then why lump them together? In the United States, the situations are incomparable; I haven’t heard of Christians being discriminated against. I have heard people complain about Christianity, which isn’t the same thing, and I have heard some Christians complain about being discriminated against because they can’t force their will on others. (“We can’t force others to pray with us in school? Why, we’re so oppressed.”) I have no doubt that somewhere in the US, some Christians have been discriminated against because of their religion, but to compare this to discrimination against homosexuals or black people is ridiculous and offensive. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Oh, but Christianity is wrong, so discrimination against them doesn’t count. Sorry, I forgot. > :rolleyes: \*\* Sure it does. It just doesn’t compare to discrimination against the other groups you mentioned. (By the way, I’m a Christian myself, and I don’t recall the OP saying anything about the rightness or wrongness of Christianity.) ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/14 "2003-10-09T14:37:31Z")
slight hijack: What ever happened to the power of the religious right? A few years ago the media portrayed them as on the verge of controlling everything and now it seems like they’re powerless. Gay bishops, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, Unconstitutional displays of the 10 commandments. Where did these guys go? ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/15 "2003-10-09T14:40:56Z")
Okee doke then: Banks County School District in Georgia. The Good News Club requested to use school facilities to meet after school once a week. The school allowed other groups to meet. The request was denied. The group was subsequently vindicated in the courts. [cite](http://www.mainstreetnews.com/Arch/03/0402/Banks.html). There are probably hundreds of cases like this, where a Christian group wanted to use school facilities, which were already being used by other groups, and the group was denied. Across the country, Christian groups at colleges are being told that their leadership cannot be required to hold the same beliefs as the group, or that’s discrimination. [cite.](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,74757,00.html) Specifically, Rutgers University “derecognized” the InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, because they would not allow people who opposed thier beliefs to become leaders. [cite.](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/4/3/150508.shtml) For example, and as a start. ---
**Author:** ![Opengrave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/919ad9/32.png) [@Opengrave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opengrave)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/16 "2003-10-09T14:55:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*Aren’t chrsitians being jailed and killed for their faith in other countries? > I’ve heard this, but I’d like some proof. > thank you. \*\* I won’t attest for the validity of any of the info but it seems fairly well documented. Click ‘prisoner list’ then scroll down a few pages to the list of names (warning .PDF). [http://www.persecution.com/](http://www.persecution.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/17 "2003-10-09T15:13:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Being religous is a choice… That is not always the case. For some, to deny their faith would be to deny their experience. Do you honestly think that you could just suddenly _decide_ to believe in a real live God Who dwells within you if in fact He is not there? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/18 "2003-10-09T16:00:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Garfield226 \* > \*\*Banks County School District in Georgia. The Good News Club requested to use school facilities to meet after school once a week. The school allowed other groups to meet. The request was denied. The group was subsequently vindicated in the courts. [cite](http://www.mainstreetnews.com/Arch/03/0402/Banks.html). But this was **not** discrimination against Christians per se. \*\* > [@](#): > > At the time, the school board voted 3-2 to deny the request. BOE chairman Bo Garrison was the deciding vote and was quoted in a January 15 story in The Banks County News as saying that his “only objection is when you open up the door to one you’re opening up to everyone—the KKK, the Black Panthers or anybody.” > [@](#): > > There are probably hundreds of cases like this, where a Christian group wanted to use school facilities, which were already being used by other groups, and the group was denied. According to the article, the Good News Club was requesting regular, weekly use of the school property, wheras other groups had been allowed one time use. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/19 "2003-10-09T16:08:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jay Belanger \* > **Then why lump them together? In the United States, the situations are incomparable; I haven’t heard of Christians being discriminated against. I have heard people complain about Christianity, which isn’t the same thing, and I have heard some Christians complain about being discriminated against because they can’t force their will on others. (“We can’t force others to pray with us in school? Why, we’re so oppressed.”) I have no doubt that somewhere in the US, some Christians have been discriminated against because of their religion, but to compare this to discrimination against homosexuals or black people is ridiculous and offensive.** I phrased my post in the way I did because the OP implied that the ‘religious right’s’ whining over Christian’s being opressed is stupid, because Christians haven’t been discriminated against. The OP implies that no Christian is being discriminated against because of his beliefs, but only because he is an idiot or he’s violating some other law. This is wrong, as I have cited. Therefore, it’s just as absurd as saying that no homosexual or black person is really being discriminated against just because he’s homosexual or black, but because he’s an idiot or breaking some other law. That is why I phrased the post in the way I did. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365/20 "2003-10-09T16:13:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bnorton \* > \*\*According to the article, the Good News Club was requesting regular, weekly use of the school property, wheras other groups had been allowed one time use. \*\* Fair enough. At Monarch High School in Boulder County Colorado, two students sued the school after their request to start a Bible club was denied. Numerous other non-curriculum-related clubs had been formed, though the school had a policy against them, yet this one was denied. The students were subsequently vindicated. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-mighty-tired-of-the-religious-right/206365.md?page=2)