# I'm getting REAL tired of trying to educate people about the different between Fact and Make Believe **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429 "2016-12-11T14:02:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/21 "2016-12-12T17:19:41Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Sigh. > > It means “fake news” is a term liberals tend to throw around casually. They THINK it means “We’re smart people who know the real facts because we read respectable journalists like Sabrina Erdely and Jayson Blair, while you conservative rednecks watch Faux News and listen to Rush Limbaugh.” > > In reality, liberals believe all kinds of things just as ridiculous as “Obama was born in Kenya.” Assuredly we believe things that are just as ridiculous, but as I pointed out earlier, they’re probably a lot less significant in their implications than an attempt to delegitimize a sitting President on totally spurious grounds. > [@](#): > > Liberals have their own echo chambers and their own blind spots. People who read the New York Times and the Boston Globe are misinformed on a host of issues, but pat themselves on the back for “knowing” all kinds of things that aren’t true. Again, can you come up with examples that matter in a big way, rather than a trivial way? > [@](#): > > Are there ignorant conservatives? Hell yeah. But those folks aren’t reading the SDMB. People like YOU are. And somebody needs to tell THEM that old adage about the motes in other people’s eyes and the planks in your own. Mote: the U.Va. rape story. Plank: Obama was born in Kenya. MF’ing lumberyard: Global warming is a hoax. Somewhere in between plank and lumberyard: Obamacare is a failure, Obamacare has made Medicare less solvent and in need of major changes to save it, tax cuts (from current levels of taxation) pay for themselves… ETA: Feel free to recategorize these if you think you can justify it. But I’m seeing liberals occasionally buying into a mote, while conservatives hold onto vast quantities of lumber for decades. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/22 "2016-12-12T17:46:20Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > In reality, liberals believe all kinds of things just as ridiculous as “Obama was born in Kenya.” > > Liberals have their own echo chambers and their own blind spots. People who read the New York Times and the Boston Globe are misinformed on a host of issues, but pat themselves on the back for “knowing” all kinds of things that aren’t true. Can you provide some examples from your POV outside the liberal echo chamber? I’m asking not as a way of challenging you but in sincerely hoping you’ll point out actual liberal blind spots. I would really like to know what specific, factual things you believe liberals are misinformed about. Otherwise, we’ll just be talking in vague and nebulous concepts and never get to the heart of it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/23 "2016-12-12T17:50:45Z")
And to add to what \*\*RTFirefly \*\*noted, the effort at mea culpa and corrections made to articles does point to sources that still deserve support. As another doper pointed out in a different thread, no source is perfect. But, even if suspected of being partisan correcting the record is key to be seen as responsible after a screw-up. On the other hand you get, as in the case of right wing sources that many from the right report as important to them, \*\*constant \*\*erroneous “reports” about global warming with no corrections whatsoever. And then one can see the corruption that is going on from those sources of information. Case in point: > **[Global Temperatures Plunge. Icy Silence from Climate Alarmists](https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2016/11/30/global-temperatures-plunge-icy-silence-climate-alarmists/)** > > Land temperatures have plummeted by 1 degree - the biggest and steepest fall on record. But the news has been greeted with an eerie silence. [The Weather Channel and also scientific groups](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/07/504676327/weather-channel-tells-breitbart-not-to-use-its-content-to-mislead-on-climate-cha) reported on the deceptive nature of that article. The lack of correction after almost a week of being debunked elsewhere does point to an effort to willfully deceive the public, but most importantly here: With no correction then it follows that there is an effort from that and other sources to corrupt the record and ultimately and attempt to change history. With an added worrisome development: That we have a new president and an administration that is relying on that source of information, and it is also a source uses more propaganda than reporting. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/24 "2016-12-12T18:25:37Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Are there ignorant conservatives? Hell yeah. But those folks aren’t reading the SDMB. _[ahem](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=605448)_ ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/25 "2016-12-12T20:02:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, this is news to me – are you saying you think most liberals have abandoned the original Michael Brown narrative now? > > I agree the dramatic denouement of the Rolling Stone article has left most liberals who supported it now in agreement that perhaps they were hasty. Was the Rolling Stone article noteworthy in separating liberals from conservatives in terms of who believed its authenticity? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/26 "2016-12-12T21:15:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Was the Rolling Stone article noteworthy in separating liberals from conservatives in terms of who believed its authenticity? Haven’t you heard? Conservatives automatically disbelieve stories involving rape. Because women are whores. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/27 "2016-12-12T22:28:17Z")
Male victims too. It’s physically impossible. Angles, don’t’cha know. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/28 "2016-12-13T00:12:49Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Male victims too. It’s physically impossible. Angles, don’t’cha know. And don’t forget the paper towel tube axiom. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/29 "2016-12-13T04:29:40Z")
jayjay wrote: "And don’t forget the paper towel tube axiom. " Honestly don’t know what that one means. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/30 "2016-12-13T04:45:02Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > jayjay wrote: "And don’t forget the paper towel tube axiom. " > > Honestly don’t know what that one means. A certain Doper was vociferous in defense of Jerry Sandusky during the whole Penn State child sex abuse scandal and at least part of the defense had something to do with anal sex with a child being impossible because of some kind of thing that he thought was proved by the dimensions of a paper towel tube (I don’t even remember the exact argument now). ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/31 "2016-12-13T05:31:22Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Do we have—no, is there any hope that we could have, in this day and age—a Walter Cronkite-like news source that’s trusted by a majority of Americans across the political spectrum? How about [the BBC](http://www.bbc.com/news)? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/32 "2016-12-13T07:39:23Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Let’s see now… people who read the mainstream liberal newspapers and magazine believed such howlers as > > 1. Fraternity-boys gang raped a girl at UVA. > > 2. Michael Brown was a gentle giant who was trying to surrender Do they still believe them? What percentage of liberals do you think still buy into those stories? Oh right, fucking nobody, because when we get things wrong, we correct the record. Rolling Stone publicly flagellated itself over its error. It sent the story for independent critique to a journalism review board, then took the time to publish their entirely damning response. Now how many Daily Mail readers do you think still believe that the Met Office claimed global warming has “stopped”? The majority? Doubtful. How many Trump fans accepted any of the many, many correction to Trump’s lies (most of which he never retracted or admitted to)? Why is it that the actual “fake news” producers in Macedonia tried and _failed_ to get a decent liberal audience? > [@](#): > > Be careful when you throw around terms like “fake news.” Neither of those things were “fake news”. They were lazy reporting or bad facts, but neither was fraudulent news knowingly trying to pass off lies and propaganda as fact. “Fake news” is a specific phenomenon. It’s not just a reporter being lazy or facts being unclear and the news taking the wrong side. Stop diluting the term. The UVA rape story: bad reporting that was uncovered and apologized for The Michael Brown story: bad information that was corrected and not repeated Pope Francis Endorses Trump: fake news, invented out of whole cloth, never corrected or retracted by the “news source” that published it. There’s a difference here, whether you want to admit it or not. > [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, this is news to me – are you saying you think most liberals have abandoned the original Michael Brown narrative now? Yes, actually. I can’t remember the last time I saw Michael Brown brought up as anything other than a gotcha by conservatives who like to pretend that because BLM was wrong on this one case, it was wrong about all the others as well. > [@astorian](#): > > Sigh. > > It means “fake news” is a term liberals tend to throw around casually. I don’t agree. the only people I see throwing it around “casually” are conservatives who are trying very hard to make it mean something it doesn’t, to stretch its meaning until we all forget what the hell we’re actually talking about - [deliberate hoaxes](http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2016/12/stop_calling_everything_fake_news.html) put up for the sake of propaganda or clickbait - people like **pleks** and **astorian**. At most, a few liberals are stretching it a bit by including things like Breitbart, but it’s often hard to draw the line between Breitbart and actual fake news sites. > [@](#): > > In reality, liberals believe all kinds of things just as ridiculous as “Obama was born in Kenya.” Citation needed. > [@](#): > > Liberals have their own echo chambers and their own blind spots. People who read the New York Times and the Boston Globe are misinformed on a host of issues, but pat themselves on the back for “knowing” all kinds of things that aren’t true. Citation needed. > [@](#): > > Are there ignorant conservatives? Hell yeah. But those folks aren’t reading the SDMB. People like YOU are. And somebody needs to tell THEM that old adage about the motes in other people’s eyes and the planks in your own. Says the guy whose party rejects the existence of global fucking warming. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/33 "2016-12-13T13:13:48Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And yet there are positives to teaching preschool. In First Grade my son covered fact vs opinion, fiction vs non-fiction and how to find which category a story falls into when you aren’t sure. I have family members that need a refresher course from him. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/34 "2016-12-13T14:44:21Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > In reality, liberals believe all kinds of things just as ridiculous as “Obama was born in Kenya.” Yep. Us liberals believe ridiculous stories such as: Sandy Hook was a real shooting with real dead people Nidal Hassan was a crazed lone gunman rather than a “false flag” operation Hurricane Sandy was a natural hurricane and not one created by Obama All of which have been proven wrong by Conservative “thinkers”. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/35 "2016-12-13T14:55:46Z")
Oh, come on. You have to admit that the Sandy Hook/Hurricane Sandy name thing was too much to be mere coincidence (someone actually told me this in all seriousness, and I could not stop laughing) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/36 "2016-12-13T14:58:33Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Yep. Us liberals believe ridiculous stories such as: > > Sandy Hook was a real shooting with real dead people > Nidal Hassan was a crazed lone gunman rather than a “false flag” operation > Hurricane Sandy was a natural hurricane and not one created by Obama > All of which have been proven wrong by Conservative “thinkers”. I was on a slightly more conservative forum when that huge snowstorm hit Georgia. People there thought it was fake snow from the government. No, seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/37 "2016-12-13T15:11:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Can you provide some examples from your POV outside the liberal echo chamber? > > I’m asking not as a way of challenging you but in sincerely hoping you’ll point out actual liberal blind spots. I would really like to know what specific, factual things you believe liberals are misinformed about. Otherwise, we’ll just be talking in vague and nebulous concepts and never get to the heart of it. All the anti-vaccines people I know are liberals (well, I guess Trump is anti-vax too, but he’s pretty much a moron on every issue). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/38 "2016-12-13T15:15:31Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Oh, come on. You have to admit that the Sandy Hook/Hurricane Sandy name thing was too much to be mere coincidence (someone actually told me this in all seriousness, and I could not stop laughing) Can stage a false flag op, even bring in a hurricane. Just not very competent at naming things. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/39 "2016-12-13T15:21:53Z")
Do you suppose we’re heading into another dark ages? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429/40 "2016-12-13T15:40:11Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Oh, come on. You have to admit that the Sandy Hook/Hurricane Sandy name thing was too much to be mere coincidence (someone actually told me this in all seriousness, and I could not stop laughing) Tell them that the dual “Operation Sandy” was named after Obama’s (white) girlfriend. 😉 Good thing her name wasn’t something like Wendy or Xaviera. Waiting so long into the season to get an “S” hurricane was chancy enough. Plus lucky it wasn’t a year where it would be Hurricane Sam. Have to wait a whole 'nother year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-getting-real-tired-of-trying-to-educate-people-about-the-different-between-fact-and-make-believe/774429.md?page=3)