# I'm giving up on 'A Song of Ice and Fire' **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 30, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629 "2011-08-30T14:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![PacifistPorcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PacifistPorcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PacifistPorcupine)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/41 "2011-09-01T14:21:58Z")
I must have a lot less patience than others here. I couldn’t even finish the first book. In my defense, I was only reading it for a girl and we broke up so that incentive wasn’t there any more and the pace was too slow. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/42 "2011-09-01T15:29:43Z")
> [@A\_qui\_profite\_le\_crime](#): > > Even though I was disappointed with ADWD, I will read the other two books remaining In the series. While you’re reading those two books, I’ll be watching “Buckaroo Banzai against the World Crime League” and the sequel to “Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins” instead. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/43 "2011-09-01T15:41:34Z")
> [@MilTan](#): > > Me too. I felt like that’s where his killing off major characters went from “refreshing” to “fetish.” Here’s how it ends: [Note: I’m not going to list all of the characters, since there are so many.] All of the Good Guys die. Some of them are crippled first, and have a chance for some happiness. Just as they’re about to achieve it, they die. Most of the Bad Guys die. Some come to realise their folly and die in profound regret. Other ones die still believing they are Truly Inspired Geniuses. Lots of common folk die. But then, they always do. The Others take over the north. But most of them die. [Mr. Hengist] You’ll all die horribly! In searing pain! Die, die, die! Everybody dies! [/Mr. H] ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/44 "2011-09-01T15:59:54Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Did you not really care for _A Game of Thrones_, either? I’d recommend that if someone got 1/2 way through that and hated it, just stop. If you were just let down by the 2nd book though, _A Storm of Swords_, the third book in the series, is nearly unanimously agreed upon as the best. As the one who started the first anti-ASOIAF thread on this forum–at least I think it was the first–I’m pleased to see the tide of opinion has turned in my favor. I will comment on this. Ten years ago, when I was a teenage fan, I probably would have agreed that _Storm_ is the best book in the series, simply because it has such a huge cast of characters. Back then I generally assumed that bigger meant better. Now I’d say that _Storm_ is the worst of the original three, while _Feast_ is yet worse. (I haven’t read _Dance_ and don’t intend to.) My reasoning is simply this. That in _Storm_ there’s too much gore and violence and virtually nothing else. In the first two volumes you might occasionally get through a chapter without having to read about torture and gruesome death. In _Storm_ you just can’t. The characters can’t even walk down a country road without seeing fifty corpses hanging in the trees or watching somebody get ripped to pieces. Frankly, none of the torture and violence is at all unique, regardless of whether it involves major characters or minor ones. Fantasy authors have been doing that for generations. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/45 "2011-09-01T16:36:16Z")
I pretty much gave up after A Feast for Crows. I’ve posted this before, but I’m pretty sure that GRRM made a major mistake in plotting and doesn’t know how to correct it. All his remaining Stark protagonists (if they survived ADWD) are too young. After the first book, he should have started the second book “Ten years later…” But instead, we’re groveling through the details as all our characters grow, change, and achieve maturity, and then get mutilated or die horribly. I also have some doubts about the viability of GRRM’s society, given that every other character seems to be an irredeemable psychopath and the society is just over the top brutal and misogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/46 "2011-09-01T16:37:23Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > While you’re reading those two books, I’ll be watching “Buckaroo Banzai against the World Crime League” and the sequel to “Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins” instead. It’s about damn time! ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/47 "2011-09-01T17:48:29Z")
YES! Other people hate this to! Thank god, everybody I know that likes fantasy was gushing over it. I’m actually a fan of fantasy, so long as it’s good, and I’m usually fairly good at distinguishing crap hack writers from the actually decent. When I saw and read the description for Martins stuff, I though, Jeez what a hack. When it became popular I picked it up, and gave it a go. I quit after the first book. I though it was predictable, that killing main characters was boring, particularely after reading Eriksons stuff, and that it was just a rehash of everything that makes fantasy crap: castles, princes, kings, soldiers, romanticism. As far as I’m concerned, the only thing that saves this from being the most overrated fantasy I’ve ever read is the Thomas Covenant shit. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/48 "2011-09-01T17:51:40Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Mr. Hengist] > Die, die, die! Everybody dies! > [/Mr. H] Sorry. Mr. Hengist says ‘Die, die, die! Death to you all!’ It was Ard that said ‘You die, she dies, everybody dies!’ ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/49 "2011-09-01T18:02:29Z")
Some of Martin’s individual scenes, like Kal Drogo’s funeral, are really very fine writing. But overall, I’ve never cared for the series or Martin’s casual cruelty toward his characters and readers, both. Emotional manipulation is not the same thing as profundity. ---
**Author:** ![Kylede](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@Kylede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kylede)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/50 "2011-09-01T18:25:33Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > I also have some doubts about the viability of GRRM’s society, given that every other character seems to be an irredeemable psychopath and the society is just over the top brutal and misogynistic. Seriously, life in the middle ages was often this brutal and true…he has yet to write about a commoner…which is 99% of the population…Nobility really lived like this and thought they were a totally different species then the commoner…Kind of explains why there are not many monarchies left now ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/51 "2011-09-01T18:32:04Z")
> [@Kylede](#): > > Nobility really lived like this and thought they were a totally different species then the commoner. ♫ _King Louis was living like a king But the people were living rotten So the people, they started an uprising which they called the French Revolution, And of course you remember their battle cry Which will never be forgotten…_ ♫ ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/52 "2011-09-01T20:42:00Z")
> [@Kylede](#): > > …he has yet to write about a commoner… Nonsense, there are commoners decorating the landscape all over the place. Look, there’s three of them hanging from that tree right there. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629/53 "2011-09-01T22:02:49Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I have never and will never bother to reread ASOIAF. Funny. While I still like the first three volumes well enough - and even they have their share of problems (Aria’s endless wanderings through Westeros in Clash, for instance, are as boring as they are a bad omen of things to come in IV and V) - I’ve never felt any desire to read them again, just like you. Pratchett, otoh, is like an old friend you care for and want to visit from time to time, even though you know him so well. I have some trouble to call him a fantasy author - but this will likely lead to a discussion of pure semantics and nothing else. > [@Kylede](#): > > Seriously, life in the middle ages was often this brutal and true…he has yet to write about a commoner…which is 99% of the population…Nobility really lived like this and thought they were a totally different species then the commoner…Kind of explains why there are not many monarchies left now The _Middle Ages_ is a convenient term but it disguises the enormous period of time and the diversity of cultures that is compressed into such little words: even if we focused on one region alone in Europe, say England, the differences between its 6th century societies and the one from the 14th century are enormous. The society described in ASoIaF is not a a realistic representation of any European society within this era - but the sketch Martin paints (and it’s not more than that when it comes to Westeros’ social system) triggers widespread (mis)conceptions about the Middle Ages and that approach is more sensible than an accurate reproduction of one culture within one narrow period of time (sigh, now I sound as if I wanted to defend the guy, :mad:). Westeros is a fictional continent, its societies are inventions; do you really mean to say that you can deduce anything about historic cultures by reading fantasy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-giving-up-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/594629.md?page=2)