# I'm going to catch it for this, White Privilege is not a thing....bear with me: **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783 "2017-06-24T19:02:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/121 "2017-06-27T05:14:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I agree with you on polling, but I stand by my statement that in the 21st century, white privilege does not apply to poor whites and in fact in some ways they are disadvantaged compared to poor minorities in many ways, especially the job market. Especially men. Colleges aren’t looking to recruit coal miner’s sons anymore either. > > White privilege applies at about $30K and up, to be sure, and it’s true privilege, because everything bad we ever did, we don’t have to pay for. Our poorer cousins pay the price for our guilt. Um… > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > [Not really](https://www.theguardian.com/money/us-money-blog/2015/jan/05/rising-income-inequality-deadlier-for-black-americans-study). [Here’s another significant difference](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/08/12/black-poverty-differs-from-white-poverty/?utm_term=.83be06e5a824). And, additionally, even if poor didn’t care, [your odds of getting out and staying out of poverty while black are a lot worse than your odds while white](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/01/15/five-bleak-facts-on-black-opportunity/). You wanna make that claim? Let’s see some evidence. I’m not gonna just take your word for it. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Marci\_Al](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Marci\_Al](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marci_Al)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/122 "2017-06-27T07:46:59Z")
If there is, I must be white. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/123 "2017-06-27T09:07:25Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > One of my favorite essays is _White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack_, by Peggy Mcintosh (a white woman). If nothing else, go down to the numbered list. When I first read it, I was stunned by how many things I take for granted as a white person. > > [PDF warning](http://www.intergroupresources.com/rc/knapsack.pdf) > > Small sample: > > 1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time. > > 2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area, which I can afford and in which I would want to live. > > 3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me. > > 4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed. > > 5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented. > > 6. When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization,” I am shown that people of my color made it what it is. > > 7. II can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race. Jesus, what a stupid essay: (1) Has she never spent any significant amount of time with minorities? It’s trivially easy for them to self segregate if they so desire. (2) Non-white people can do this as well. (3) While I am sure places exist that are actively hostile to non-white people, the vast majority of neighbors are going to be neutral to pleasant to non-white people. (4) Again, wtf? Does she think stores often follow or harass their customers? The rest of these aren’t white privilege. They are majority privilege. Or does she think that in China, for example, they show white people when they are talking about national heritage? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/124 "2017-06-27T10:47:12Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Jesus, what a stupid essay: > > (1) Has she never spent any significant amount of time with minorities? It’s trivially easy for them to self segregate if they so desire. > > (2) Non-white people can do this as well. > > (3) While I am sure places exist that are actively hostile to non-white people, the vast majority of neighbors are going to be neutral to pleasant to non-white people. > > (4) Again, wtf? Does she think stores often follow or harass their customers? > > The rest of these aren’t white privilege. They are majority privilege. Or does she think that in China, for example, they show white people when they are talking about national heritage? De facto [redlining](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining)still exists, as does [deliberate exclusion of black people by landlords](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Housing_Act). Racism remains rife in many parts of the country. [Many](http://metro.co.uk/2016/12/27/a-former-versace-employee-says-the-company-uses-a-code-word-for-black-customers-6345645/) [store](https://jezebel.com/cvs-employees-hide-and-call-police-after-black-man-trie-1789411574) [employees](https://www.theroot.com/victoria-s-secret-employee-fired-after-making-black-cus-1790858076) do often [follow and/or](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-teen-records-store-workers-stealing-article-1.1878518) [harass black customers](http://www.ibtimes.com/shopping-while-black-americas-retailers-know-they-have-racial-profiling-problem-now-2222778). Your understanding of the depth and breadth of these and related issues appears to be sorely limited. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/125 "2017-06-27T11:06:48Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Jesus, what a stupid essay: > > (1) Has she never spent any significant amount of time with minorities? It’s trivially easy for them to self segregate if they so desire. How many all-black jobs do you know of? That’s also a factor. It’s trivially easier for white people to do this on just about every front, _and_ the neighborhoods they end up in are substantially nicer to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/126 "2017-06-27T11:38:03Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > How many all-black jobs do you know of? [Well, there’s…](http://www.allblacks.com/) Sorry / not sorry ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/127 "2017-06-27T13:03:47Z")
Yes, there are some ways in which poor whites have an advantage over middle class blacks, such as in the justice system. Getting into college is another story. College systems that used race and not socioeconomic status, such as Michigan’s and their controversial points system, severely disadvantaged poor whites and Asians. There are also many companies where being a white male high school graduate pretty much closes off any chance of advancement, but is not an obstacle to advancement if you are female or minority. Again, this does not create a problem for the old boys club in any way, shape, or form. The white folks not in the old boys club however, are kinda screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/128 "2017-06-27T13:25:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There are also many companies where being a white male high school graduate pretty much closes off any chance of advancement, but is not an obstacle to advancement if you are female or minority. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/129 "2017-06-27T13:52:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yes, there are some ways in which poor whites have an advantage over middle class blacks, such as in the justice system. Getting into college is another story. College systems that used race and not socioeconomic status, such as Michigan’s and their controversial points system, severely disadvantaged poor whites and Asians. > > There are also many companies where being a white male high school graduate pretty much closes off any chance of advancement, but is not an obstacle to advancement if you are female or minority. Again, this does not create a problem for the old boys club in any way, shape, or form. The white folks not in the old boys club however, are kinda screwed. Do you have a cite for all these claims? You must realize we’re not just going to take your word for it. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/130 "2017-06-27T14:45:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yes, there are some ways in which poor whites have an advantage over middle class blacks, such as in the justice system. Getting into college is another story. College systems that used race and not socioeconomic status, such as Michigan’s and their controversial points system, severely disadvantaged poor whites and Asians. > > There are also many companies where being a white male high school graduate pretty much closes off any chance of advancement, but is not an obstacle to advancement if you are female or minority. Again, this does not create a problem for the old boys club in any way, shape, or form. The white folks not in the old boys club however, are kinda screwed. [Citation needed] ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/131 "2017-06-27T15:14:19Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > De facto [redlining](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining)still exists, as does [deliberate exclusion of black people by landlords](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Housing_Act). Racism remains rife in many parts of the country. [Many](http://metro.co.uk/2016/12/27/a-former-versace-employee-says-the-company-uses-a-code-word-for-black-customers-6345645/) [store](https://jezebel.com/cvs-employees-hide-and-call-police-after-black-man-trie-1789411574) [employees](https://www.theroot.com/victoria-s-secret-employee-fired-after-making-black-cus-1790858076) do often [follow and/or](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-teen-records-store-workers-stealing-article-1.1878518) [harass black customers](http://www.ibtimes.com/shopping-while-black-americas-retailers-know-they-have-racial-profiling-problem-now-2222778). > > Your understanding of the depth and breadth of these and related issues appears to be sorely limited. Where, specifically, in the US would a black person not be able to rent or buy a house they could afford? As for the shopping, how often do you think non-white shoppers are harassed and/or followed in store? 1 out of 10?, 100? 1,000?, 10,000? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/132 "2017-06-27T15:15:23Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > How many all-black jobs do you know of? That’s also a factor. It’s trivially easier for white people to do this on just about every front, _and_ the neighborhoods they end up in are substantially nicer to boot. That’s moving the goal posts. People spend most of their time outside of work. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/133 "2017-06-27T16:00:53Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Cite? All i got is Adam Corrola’s (sp?) story about how he waited six years to apply to be a fireman and a female hispanic waited less than a week. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/134 "2017-06-27T16:54:59Z")
This NBC news report covers several instances of discrimination as I described: > **[Does affirmative action punish whites?](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna30462129)** > > More Americans believe that affirmative action, instead of leveling the playfield for minorities, unfairly punishes whites. A reverse discrimination case is before the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/135 "2017-06-28T07:51:35Z")
> [@treis](#): > > That’s moving the goal posts. People spend most of their time outside of work. Really? I have about 16-17 waking hours on any given work day, and of those, 8-9 go into my workplace. And I don’t exactly have a massive work schedule. > [@adaher](#): > > This NBC news report covers several instances of discrimination as I described: > > [Does affirmative action punish whites?](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/30462129/ns/us_news-life/t/does-affirmative-action-punish-whites/#.WVKNiuvyuM8) Interesting case. Not sure how many of the cases are actually justified, although the case involving the test that got thrown out does seem to support your case. I wonder how common this is, though. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/136 "2017-06-28T10:35:38Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Where, specifically, in the US would a black person not be able to rent or buy a house they could afford? I note your narrow definition of the issue. Meanwhile, [here are some recent cases of redlining](https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/09/redlining-is-alive-and-welland-evolving/407497/), which often involve banks redlining via refusing mortgage applications. To quote [one article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/28/evidence-that-banks-still-deny-black-borrowers-just-as-they-did-50-years-ago/?utm_term=.97954c14357c) on an instance of this: > [@](#): > > The case is not about doling out mortgages to minority households that wouldn’t otherwise qualify for them — it’s about offering equal access to families that look just as eligible on paper as white homeowners nearby. Or you could read up on the [latest fair housing trends data](http://nationalfairhousing.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/TRENDS-REPORT-6-6-2017-FINAL.pdf). It’s noteworthy that racial discrimination only drives 19.6% of fair housing complaints, second to discrimination due to disability (55%) but that’s still a sizable number - about 5,500 complaints in 2016. > [@](#): > > As for the shopping, how often do you think non-white shoppers are harassed and/or followed in store? 1 out of 10?, 100? 1,000?, 10,000? Is it more than the prevalence of white shoppers followed (adjusted for percentages)? How much more frequent would it have to be for you to stop splitting hairs and acknowledge that it’s a problem? While any reporting will inevitably be subjective (and potentially anecdotal) which makes statistical analysis difficult, certainly many, many businesses already acknowledge it to be a problem, particularly when lawsuits follow. I linked to six different stories above about the issue; I refer you again to the [last link](http://www.ibtimes.com/shopping-while-black-americas-retailers-know-they-have-racial-profiling-problem-now-2222778). You might also consider the [Shopping While Black](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopping_while_black) Wiki page or maybe, if you could bestir yourself, [try this page](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=shopping+while+black). I realize this is IMHO, not GD, but I’ve provided a lot of links and you’ve provided me with nothing more than the verbal equivalent of a shrug. So you are perfectly entitled to continue to maintain an opinion that these things aren’t an issue despite multiple sources indicating that they are, and the rest of us can form our own opinions on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/137 "2017-06-28T15:49:07Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Really? I have about 16-17 waking hours on any given work day, and of those, 8-9 go into my workplace. And I don’t exactly have a massive work schedule. Do you not get weekends and other days off? > [@Gyrate](#): > > I note your narrow definition of the issue. It’s not my definition, it is her’s: > [@](#): > > If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area, which I can afford and in which I would want to live. Again, so where in this country would non-white people not be “pretty sure” of finding a place to live? > [@Gyrate](#): > > How much more frequent would it have to be for you to stop splitting hairs and acknowledge that it’s a problem? Frequent enough where non-white people can not: > [@](#): > > go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that [they] will not be followed or harassed. It’s telling that you aren’t actually trying to defend what the article says and instead arguing somewhat related but far less significant points. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/138 "2017-06-28T16:18:30Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > One of my favorite essays is _White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack_, by Peggy Mcintosh (a white woman). If nothing else, go down to the numbered list. When I first read it, I was stunned by how many things I take for granted as a white person. > > [PDF warning](http://www.intergroupresources.com/rc/knapsack.pdf) > > Small sample: Almost all of these are who cares? 1. Why would anyone want to live a life that is segregated by race? 2. Poor does not mean black, there are more poor white people in this country than poor black people. 3. Jerk neighbors happen to white people too. 4. This would make it easier to shoplift, but if you are not who cares? 5. Who cares what the people on tv look like? How does having actors the same race as me on tv, help me in any way? 6. History happened the way it happened, that is not privilege. 7. Testify to the existence of a race, is not what a curriculum should be about, it should be about imparting knowledge. If we change all the names in world problems to black names, does anyone think that black youths would suddenly love math class? A ridiculous idea. If you look at the ethnicities is the US that are doing the best in the US, most of those things would apply. Indian Americans have the highest income in the country but the history books are not full of Asian Indians. That shows the problem with the idea of white privilege. It is obviously easier to be a part of the majority culture, but every generation of immigrants shows that not being a part of the majority is an inconvenience, not a ruination. If you look at the obstacles any successful person has to overcome in their life, being followed around a store is a triviality. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/139 "2017-06-28T23:30:12Z")
[Young black girls are viewed as less innocent than white girls at age 5](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/young-black-girls-less-innocent-study_us_59526e51e4b05c37bb7982d2) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783/140 "2017-06-28T23:41:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yes, there are some ways in which poor whites have an advantage over middle class blacks, such as in the justice system. Getting into college is another story. College systems that used race and not socioeconomic status, such as Michigan’s and their controversial points system, severely disadvantaged poor whites and Asians. As a poor white student who attended the University of Michigan on a full time scholarship at the time of the whole Supreme Court affirmative action debacle, I can assert with great confidence that this college system did not use “race, and not socioeconomic status” to the disadvantage of poor white people. The points system covered a ton of diverse backgrounds, including being poor and white. If anyone was disadvantaged at all, it was rich white kids, because… Hahaha sorry. There was no shortage of rich white kids. Rich, terminally stupid white kids who couldn’t think their way out of a paper bag. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-catch-it-for-this-white-privilege-is-not-a-thing-bear-with-me/789783.md?page=8)