# I'm Going to Horrify the Wine Snobs... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** wine\ **Created:** [May 5, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474 "2006-05-05T00:01:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/21 "2006-05-05T11:26:17Z")
> [@psycat90](#): > > I think bag-in-the box wines would be absolutely perfect for you. There are some pretty good ones on the market now. The wine will stay fresh for a month or slightly longer after you tap it. I’d agree with you, but — like I said, I don’t drink often and when I do one glass is enough. Unless they’re selling 1 liter boxes, I doubt I’d consume it before it went bad. That’s been one of the things keeping me away from wine - I just don’t drink enough alcoholic stuff to justify buying a bottle. I’d drink 1 glass and wind up throwing the rest away. That just seems so \*wasteful \* to me. > [@](#): > > Other misc. pointers - You’ve got Zinfandel under whites. I know you meant ‘White Zinfandel’ by your description, but someone else might not. Zinfandel is a red wine, so be careful what you ask your wine shop or a wine steward for. I’m glad ya’ll straightened me out on that - I always thought Zin was a "white’ that happened to look pink. I had no idea the variety fell into the red category. > [@](#): > > And you have my sympathies on the no beer thing. Ouch! I enjoyed beer while I was able to, so I have few regrets (other than no more beer). It’s that whole “life is too short thing”, so you need to enjoy things today and not put them off til tomorrow, because tomorrow you might not be able to partake of those goodies. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/22 "2006-05-05T11:28:21Z")
> [@Paul The Younger](#): > > And a \*great \* thing to have on hand (because you’re probably not going to find a great variety of single-serve wines) is a [Vacu-Vin Wine Saver](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004SAF4/102-5462844-6768938?v=glance&n=284507), available at amazon or probably you’re local wine shop or Bed Bath & Beyond type store (I think I found mine at Tuesday Morning years ago.) It’s basically a very simple hand pump that corks and sucks the air out of the bottle. It’ll keep that barely touched open bottle fresh for a couple of weeks or more… Now THAT might be just the thing for me! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/23 "2006-05-05T11:38:03Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > White Zinfandel - ie, the “pink stuff” - is very, very sweet. Most wine snob types barely even consider it wine. If you like it, go for it - but if it’s too sweet for you, you’re not the only one who feels that way. \*mmphf \* - I’ve had it. You’re right, it takes like a wine cooler, which I’m not too fond of either. That might be one of the reasons I’ve never been much attracted to whites. Could be a matter of bad first experiences. > [@](#): > > Shiraz isn’t typically described as sweet, but I think I know what you mean. It’s generally spicy with some fruit to it. There’s some interesting Shiraz coming out of Australia, and it’s gaining popularity in the US. Yummy. To my non-discerning palate, Shiraz is about as sweet as I’d care for. Maybe that puts me into an odd category. Maybe that’s been part of my past problem with wine - I’ve had a lot of folks give me samples that, as I’ve said, tasted like liquid bubblegum. Maybe they thought the cloying, nasty overly-sweet taste would somehow be appealing to the novice? I had the same problem with beers initially - folks steering me towards stuff I really didn’t care for, then when I discovered the darks and stouts it was “oh _wow!_” At which point some of the other lagerheads and what not reacted with surprise bordering on horror - _mein gott,_ the little girl likes _dark beer!_ Yeah, and I drink my single-malt neat, too. Maybe I prefer bold flavors? Maybe I should some of those types they say are “too XXX” for the beginner? > [@](#): > > Something tells me, though, that given the length of the OP and your general interest, you might find yourself graduating to the big bottles sooner than you think! Only if I get some means to make them last awhile in the fridge. Like I said, I have no intention of significantly increasing my alcohol consumption. That is one area where beers have an advantage, as they’ve long been sold in single-servings. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/24 "2006-05-05T12:12:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m glad ya’ll straightened me out on that - I always thought Zin was a "white’ that happened to look pink. I had no idea the variety fell into the red category. Just to clarify - “White Zinfandel” - the pink stuff - is a rose. There is also plain old “Zinfandel” which is as red as any other red wine, and is very, very yummy. Bright and bold and spicy, and definitely a whole different beast than the pink stuff. It sort of sounds like you are thinking the pink stuff is considered a red wine, which is completely untrue. Apologies if I misunderstood your statement. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/25 "2006-05-05T12:55:55Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > I had a bottle of an Argentinian Rose Malbec the other night, and it was fantastic. Light, sweet, and spicy, somewhere between a red and white but at the same time unlike either. Rose has a bad name because of White Zinfandel and other overly-sweet pink wines. Traditionally, rose is a legitimate type of wine, and I’m hoping that we’ll be seeing more of it in the US. > > I’ve also had roses that tasted exactly like red wine. Very disconcerting. Good, though. Don’t get me wrong, I love rosés! This Henry of Pelham one has been a favourite in our home for several years. I was just responding to the concern about serving a red or a white with stir fry, and good food pairings. Generally, I wouldn’t recommend serving a rosé with a grilled steak with goat cheese wrapped in proscuitto. A bold red would be better, I think! Just add me to the list of “do what you want” when it comes to wine. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/26 "2006-05-05T13:03:02Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > I read that barley contains the same toxic substance as ricin. The reason that ricin kills people and barley doesn’t is that ricin also has a “door-opening” protein that helps the toxic stuff penetrate cells, while barley does not. I expected this to be some sort of bullshit being spread about by the anti-carb brigade, but apparently, it’s true. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricin) ---
**Author:** ![Southpaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@Southpaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southpaw)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/27 "2006-05-05T13:33:24Z")
**Broomstick** Your local liquor store might sell half bottles. There won’t be as big a selection, but it’s a great way to try something new without the committment of a full bottle. You can also freeze wine in ice cube trays for use in recipies. Chuck a cube or two in a pot of spaghetti sauce (or whatever) and you’re good to go. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/28 "2006-05-05T13:43:39Z")
I’m learning about wine, too, and I was reading a book by a sommelier (that’s “wine snob who works at restaurants” for those who don’t speak French). She uses a milk comparison to define body in wine, and I think it’s a smashing idea. She compares full-bodied wines, such as your cabs and chardonnays, to whole milk - they coat the mouth and tongue and linger. Medium bodied wines - shiraz, merlot, and I can’t think of the medium-bodied white right now - are more like 2%. There’s some coating, but it’s not as long or as “thick” as the full-bodied wines. Your lighter wines - pinot noir and riesling - are the skim milk of the wine world. They’re crisper, cleaner, more refreshing but also more fleeting. Anyway, thought I’d share. Don’t forget the Italian wines. Try a sangiovese (medium bodied). Barolo and Barbarescos are very nice, but also can be spendy. Or you could get a chianti (and enjoy it with some fava beans and liver, if you’re so inclined). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/29 "2006-05-05T14:49:02Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I had the same problem with beers initially - folks steering me towards stuff I really didn’t care for, then when I discovered the darks and stouts it was “oh _wow!_” At which point some of the other lagerheads and what not reacted with surprise bordering on horror - _mein gott,_ the little girl likes _dark beer!_ Yeah, and I drink my single-malt neat, too. Maybe I prefer bold flavors? Maybe I should some of those types they say are “too XXX” for the beginner? I thought I hated beer. Then I tried Guinness. And a few other stouts, and English ales, and I realized I like beer. Just not the stuff they sell at Walmart. Yay! I’m not alone! I’ll have to give a rose a try. I too thought they were awful mass-market creations. Apparently I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/30 "2006-05-05T15:39:04Z")
**Broomstick** , not to discourage you from the wonderful world of wine, but there are non-barley beers that you may like. Wheat beers in particular are pretty easy to find. Here’s the [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_beer) on them. ---
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/31 "2006-05-05T16:20:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’d agree with you, but — like I said, I don’t drink often and when I do one glass is enough. Unless they’re selling 1 liter boxes, I doubt I’d consume it before it went bad. There are a couple of brands that sell 1.5 liter boxes. I think Three Thieves and Wine Block are 1.5s, and I’m sure there are a few others. > [@](#): > > I’m glad ya’ll straightened me out on that - I always thought Zin was a "white’ that happened to look pink. I had no idea the variety fell into the red category. See Athena’s comment. Zinfandel is a red grape varietal that makes both a red wine (Zinfandel) and a rosé (White Zinfandel) depending on how long the juice is in contact with the skins. I’ve never seen or had a \*truly \*white Zinfandel, but I imagine it’s entirely possible to make one, just as Champagne is made from 2 red (and one white) varietals. (Red wines get their color from the skins.) Rosés just have limited contact with the skins. I did recently try a truly white Cabernet Franc - interesting stuff. Rosés are one of my favorite wines for spring and summer, they are so pretty and light and fun. Perfect picnic wine. Serve them chilled. There was a good article recently with some suggested brands. Ahhh, [here you go!](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12513207/) ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/32 "2006-05-05T16:34:10Z")
My pa, rest his twisted soul, was a wine snob. He’d blather on about this and that varietal. Most of that was useless to me. However, here’s the basics of **the table ritual.** It will make you look cool in a fancy restaurant, as if you know what you’re doing. 1. The waiter, or in rare cases the wine steward, will show you the label, to make sure that it’s what you ordered. (This is traditionally aimed at the man, but if the woman is paying, this whole show should be aimed at her.) 2. He’ll uncork the bottle and hand you the cork. This is so you can read the cork, to see if it matches the winery on the label. Yes, in olden times, they’d refill a fine bottle with cheap wine. You can sniff it if you like, to see if it’s gone bad, but that’s what the next step is for. 3. He’ll pour a little wine in your glass for you to sample and approve. Swirl it around a bit to **see** how full-bodied it is and expose more surface for the sniffing. Hold it up to your nose and take a whiff. If it smells more like vinegar than wine (unusual) it has gone bad. If it’s OK, you might notice little hints of spices or other fruits. Say, “Hmm” or something sophisticated. Then, finally, you take a sip. Let it talk to your tongue briefly, then swallow. If it wasn’t terrible, turn to the waiter, nod, and say something like, “Yes, very nice.” 4. The waiter then pours for everyone else at your table before coming back to your glass. And that’s that. **Drink what you like.** You’ll run into traditionalists who insist that red wine should be served at room (60 F) temperature. I like it cold. The old rules say white with this and red with that. If you like it that way, follow that. If not, be a rebel. For example, I drink red with red italian sauce, no matter what the meat is. Be comfortable, and enjoy the meal. That’s what wine is for. **On sulfites:** There are some people who get sick when they drink wine with sulfites. If that’s you, read the label and pick a wine without sulfites. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/33 "2006-05-05T16:45:44Z")
> [@psycat90](#): > > I think bag-in-the box wines would be absolutely perfect for you. There are some pretty good ones on the market now. The wine will stay fresh for a month or slightly longer after you tap it. Even that might be too much for her, if she only wants a single glass, and not even that every night. **Broomstick** , you could also try half bottles, if you can find them. It’s half the size of a regular bottle and contains about two good sized glasses. You could consider buying one of the wine preservation products on the market. There’s the Vacuvin, which lets you pump out the air in the bottle to retard oxidation, and then there’s the gas blanket, which lets you put a layer of CO2 over the leftover wine in the bottle. ---
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/34 "2006-05-05T17:18:50Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Even that might be too much for her, if she only wants a single glass, and not even that every night. True, but I tend to think that the wine will stay fresher longer in the bag than it will in an open bottle, even with precautionary measures like a Vacu-Vin, gas, etc. > [@AskNott](#): > > On sulfites: There are some people who get sick when they drink wine with sulfites. If that’s you, read the label and pick a wine without sulfites. There is no such thing as a wine without sulfites. Anyone truly allergic to sulfites needs to watch more than just their wine intake, as sulfites are found in many common foods like condiments, canned foods, breads, jams, dried fruits, etc. Oh, and please don’t sniff the cork. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/35 "2006-05-05T17:23:28Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > _Second question:_ Could someone either tell me (BRIEFLY!) the characteristics of a couple varieties so I may become better acquainted with this venerable and ancient beverage without requiring a college degree, or point me to a website that talks in plain English _sans_ high-flown metaphors about this? I’m looking to obtain a decent beverage to go with pretty average dinners, I’m not interested in acquiring a new hobby at this time. Not trying to inspire a new hobby but have you and the hubby ever considered a little wine country vacation? Someplace like Paso Robles, CA. Fairly small town, I think half of the people in that town work wine in some way shape or forms, there are at least 20-30 recognizable name vineyards within 10-15 min of town. Given a few days to kill you could easily try hundreds of wines from dozens of vineyards. Not as famous as Napa, but pretty respectable. Madera, CA is also starting to sprout a pretty hefty population of wineries. Both of these are smaller towns and less overrun by tourists and such since there isn’t much else there. Aim for going during the week in the wintertime. Winters are very mild there and you will dodge the Morrow bay/Cayucos summer crowd. Logdging will also be cheaper that time of year. With a few basic notes you could easily have a hard time leaving town with less than a few cases of your favorites. Most places also waive any tasting room fees they might have if you buy a bottle of wine. My personal favorite was Sylvester in Paso Robles. Nice place, staff there was wonderful, and I think I bought a case from just them. FTR I am no wine snob by any means I just drink what I think tastes good regardless of its suitability with a given meal. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/36 "2006-05-05T18:37:26Z")
Another vote for the half bottle. Yes, you get two glasses’ worth, but you can use part of the bottle in the gravy or sauce or whatever. As for port, that’s usually consumed in very small glasses after the meal, with the coffee. That said, I like it as an aperitif. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/37 "2006-05-05T18:53:03Z")
> [@JohnM](#): > > **Broomstick** , not to discourage you from the wonderful world of wine, but there are non-barley beers that you may like. Wheat beers in particular are pretty easy to find. Here’s the [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_beer) on them. Just a warning - I know of no (though I’m sure there may be a couple out there) wheat beers that do not contain a significant amount of barley as well, and the linked Wiki article notes in its first line that barley is an ingredient. It’s only called “wheat beer” because wheat is one of the ingredients. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/38 "2006-05-05T19:32:33Z")
> [@JohnM](#): > > **Broomstick** , not to discourage you from the wonderful world of wine, but there are non-barley beers that you may like. Wheat beers in particular are pretty easy to find. Here’s the [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_beer) on them. That’s very thoughtful, my friend, but your wiki article seems to indicate that those beers do contain barley. Seeing as my last mouthful of beer damn near landed me in the hospital, I really don’t feel I can take the risk. If I could obtain some fermented beer-like beverage I could be sure was _entirely_ free of barley, all barley, all trace of barley, then I would drink it. But short of obtaining it from a homebrewer I don’t think that will happen. Thank you anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/39 "2006-05-06T09:20:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If I could obtain some fermented beer-like beverage I could be sure was _entirely_ free of barley, all barley, all trace of barley, then I would drink it. How about cider? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474/40 "2006-05-06T10:14:31Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > How about cider? Can’t stand the taste - but good suggestion. I’ve been considering the whole mild-alcoholic-beverage question for a couple days now (obviously) and I now realize that I am somewhat put off by the whole excited discussion of “complex flavors” and thousands of variations on a theme. I don’t want a fugue, I want a simple folk melody to go with my dinner, as it were. Something tasty and fairly reliable that has that slight _zing_ and helps me unwind after the ocassional hard day or just because I feel like a little luxury. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-horrify-the-wine-snobs/355474.md?page=3)