# I'm going to propose, is asking for her fathers blessing still the 'done' thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 12, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530 "2009-02-12T14:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530/81 "2009-02-13T16:01:46Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I think you’re the one still stuck in the patriarchal thinking, actually. A blessing isn’t permission, even if you want to conflate the two. Asking for a blessing is asking someone to tell you they think it’s a good idea. They can do it or not without it being a determining factor in anything at all. And if they have legitimate reason to not think it’s a good idea, I’d rather we have that out in the open and talk about it. If you don’t give a shit what the answer is, then you aren’t really asking. Your analogy to going to the store doesn’t fly because it’s already being decided up front in these cases that the answers are irrelevant. It’s a _pretense_ of showing respect without any sincerity behind it. And it’s historically rooted in brokering women as property, no matter how much we try to soften the terminology now. You might as well offer the dad a goat, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530/82 "2009-02-13T16:12:21Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > That said, I wouldn’t expect to be consulted if I were the father, and whether or not I asked before proposing would depend 100% on my read of my fiancé and her parents (rule of thumb: if the father votes Republican, all else being equal, you should ask for a blessing). What if his daughter is a feminist? ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530/83 "2009-02-13T16:13:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What if he’s like me and will be annoyed if you DO ask? And why ask if you don’t care what he thinks? Isn’t that just disingenuous and patronizing? You’re about to be his son-in-law, _of course_ you care what he thinks. That doesn’t mean it’s up to him, but a clear signal that you value his opinion about a matter so close to both of your hearts will be greatly appreciated by some. It’s a symbol, a gesture, a ritual: it’s not \*supposed \*to be taken literally. > [@](#): > > Why should the man’s parents think it’s any weirder than the woman’s? Doesn’t that prove my point that it’s sexist? It proves the point that this ritual is sometimes expected of men and never expected of women. The ritual is pretty benign in it’s modern incarnation, so whether or not “sexist” fits is a matter of how you want to use that word. Regardless, it’s seldom harmful. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530/84 "2009-02-13T16:15:03Z")
> [@alexandra](#): > > What if his daughter is a feminist? If I thought she’d mind, I wouldn’t ask. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530/85 "2009-02-13T16:23:58Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > You’re about to be his son-in-law, _of course_ you care what he thinks. That doesn’t mean it’s up to him, but a clear signal that you value his opinion about a matter so close to both of your hearts will be greatly appreciated by some. But if his answer doesn’t matter then you _don’t_ care about his opinion. You can’t have it both ways. Either his answer means something or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, there’s no reason to ask. If it does, then it’s sexist. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530/86 "2009-02-13T16:45:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > But if his answer doesn’t matter then you _don’t_ care about his opinion. You can’t have it both ways. Either his answer means something or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, there’s no reason to ask. If it does, then it’s sexist. In the first place, his opinion matters. He doesn’t get to decide for you, but as your father in law his opinion of you and your marriage is going to affect your life. If he’s skeptical about the marriage, then this is a good practical opportunity to talk to him about his concerns and, hopefully, allay his fears. In between “He gets to decide whether I marry” and “his opinion doesn’t matter at all” is a vast gulf, containing most of the real world. But, second, that’s all extraneous in light of the fact that _you ask because you think it will make him happy_. Making others happy is a perfectly good justification for most actions, including this one. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530/87 "2009-02-13T16:46:18Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I think you’re the one still stuck in the patriarchal thinking, actually. A blessing isn’t permission, even if you want to conflate the two. I don’t think he is, but it’s worth noting that the OP said “blessing,” other people talked about “permission,” and some of us (me, anyway) used the terms interchangeably. > [@](#): > > Asking for a blessing is asking someone to tell you they think it’s a good idea. A good point. I do wonder- were you being hyperbolic when you said she might see you as the woman who stole her son? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530/88 "2009-02-13T17:01:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > … it’s worth noting that the OP said “blessing,” other people talked about “permission,” and some of us (me, anyway) used the terms interchangeably. Yes, I think it’s a distinction without a difference. Unless the fiancee-to-be is too young to marry without parental permission, you don’t need permission, so why ask for it. And if it’s just a blessing you want, then both prospective partners should seek a blessing from all the prospective parents-in-law – not just the man from his prospective father-in-law. (Incidentally, back in the dark ages, when I was the prospective son-in-law, I didn’t have to face the issue, since my wife’s father died before she was born, and her mother had never re-married. But I suspect that I would not have asked, even if he’d expected it.) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530/89 "2009-02-13T17:32:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > A good point. I do wonder- were you being hyperbolic when you said she might see you as the woman who stole her son? Only in the sense that it’s a common phrase and a fear of (I think) many young women when getting married. He’s definitely her “baby”, in the sense of being her youngest \*and \*she’s told me repeatedly that he was the one of her three kids that she always felt closest to. Our relationship is pretty stereotypical: she thinks I should call her more often and treat her as a mother, I think she means well but is overcontrolling and prone to melodrama. She’s pretty much the m-i-l on _Everybody Loves Raymond_. (In fact, one of the writers on that show is one of her neighbor’s kids and grew up with my husband. I have my suspicions that the resemblance might be more than coincidental.) My father-in-law was perfectly clear from the start that if his son didn’t marry me, he was an idiot. It was the mom I had to seek the blessing of. I do agree that the “blessing” should be sought of both sets of parents, for what it’s worth. I think that it’s just generally a little less formal and a lot more complicated and subtle for the bride. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530/90 "2009-02-13T18:35:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I have three daughters. I will interpret any requests from guys seeking my “blessing” to propose to them as kiss-ass and disrespectful to my daughters, and my answer will be no. > […] > Funny you say that. Right after I posted, I was thinking that should probably be my answer rather than a “no.” Refusing permission would play into the sexism as much as granting it. Yes, telling him he’s asking the wrong person would be much more appropriate. …and later… > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > And it’s historically rooted in brokering women as property, no matter how much we try to soften the terminology now. You might as well offer the dad a goat, in my opinion. There you go. Tell him you want him to give you a goat in exchange for your blessing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530/91 "2009-02-13T18:59:50Z")
A goat? Surely the love of your life is worth two pigs and a milk cow! ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530/92 "2009-02-13T23:51:49Z")
> [@Boyo Jim](#): > > A goat? > > Surely the love of your life is worth two pigs and a milk cow! Done! \ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-propose-is-asking-for-her-fathers-blessing-still-the-done-thing/485530.md?page=4)