# I'm going to try to write the book 1984 from the POV of Julia (full length) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 14, 2003, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424 "2003-01-14T01:32:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/1 "2003-01-14T01:32:35Z")
Based on how there are two main characters (unlike Brave New World, the only other book that I would consider doing such a project for which has a few main characters) this won’t be too difficult. The beginning where the knowledge of Julia is limited and when the two have been split up by the State will give me a place where I can develop Julia as a character in my own way. Just by checking the conversations (and making all are included from her p.o.v.), seeing her opinions and thoughts (and having them be similar to but not identical to Winston’s makes this an interesting project for me), and checking the facts listed, this should be a fun project. I’m trying to finish the rough draft by June. Any ideas or observations that you think may be helpful? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/2 "2003-01-14T01:47:54Z")
Yeah, don’t do this. There was an author from one of the former Soviet satellite countries that wrote a book called _1985_, which was a “sequel” to _1984_ and it was freakin’ horrible. One of the worst books I’ve tried to read! (The author thought BB was a real person!) Also, I think that you’ll need to get permission from Orwell’s estate to do this. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/3 "2003-01-14T01:50:26Z")
Extremely nice concept. Get on with writing it! At this stage you really don’t want other people’s input. Discussing it at the planning stage is a classic way to kill a writing idea. Only one thing I’d advise: check the copyright situation at some time en route. I don’t know how touchy the Orwell estate is. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/4 "2003-01-14T02:01:43Z")
**Tuckerfan** , I believe you’re making a reference to Anthony Burgess’ 1985. I didn’t like it either. Also, this isn’t a sequal, it’s happening at the same time. And if I never publish it or try to make money off of it I don’t think the estate will have much trouble with it, but I’ll cross that bridge when I reach it. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/5 "2003-01-14T02:01:47Z")
_Tuckerfan Yeah, don’t do this_ **clayton\_e** : a case in point. Talk about an idea for writing something, and you’ll immediately get people throwing a wet blanket over it - and furthermore misforming you. _1985_ was written by Anthony Burgess, the prestigious British author who wrote _A Clockwork Orange_ , and I’ve no idea where the claim that he believed Big Brother was real comes from. Write your sequel, and ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![Kalashnikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kalashnikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalashnikov)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/6 "2003-01-14T02:07:52Z")
Great idea - but I would say that her thoughts were quite different from Winston’s. I remember something like “she thought it was natural that you would want to have fun, and just as natural that the state should try to keep you from doing so”. She also seemed more streetwise but less interested in politics than him - sometimes it seemed like she was just humoring him. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/7 "2003-01-14T02:11:25Z")
If you haven’t already, study Orson Scott Card’s Ender’s Game and Ender’s Shadow. Perfect example of what (I think) you’re trying to do. He does some pretty interesting stuff in terms of writing from a different POV. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/8 "2003-01-14T02:20:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by raygirvan \* > \*\*_Tuckerfan > Yeah, don’t do this_ > > **clayton\_e** : a case in point. Talk about an idea for writing something, and you’ll immediately get people throwing a wet blanket over it - and furthermore misforming you. _1985_ was written by Anthony Burgess, the prestigious British author who wrote _A Clockwork Orange_ , and I’ve no idea where the claim that he believed Big Brother was real comes from. Write your sequel, and ignore them. \*\* I am **not** talking about the Anthony Burgess version. The version I’m talking about _was_ written by an author from a former Soviet satellite country and included an **autopsy** of BB! Had I read the Anthony Burgess version of _1985_ I would have remembered it as being by him, since I’ve read _A Clockwork Orange_ and enjoyed it. I no longer have the copy of the work of which I speak, since it was so gawdawful I chucked it after reading the first few pages (which included the autopsy report). In the one I’m speaking of, BB has died and been replaced by “Big Sister,” Winston Smith’s also dead, IIRC, and the novel has almost no relation to Orwell’s work. [Here’s](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0091360803/qid=1042510316/sr=1-53/ref=sr_1_53/103-7600248-7723069?v=glance&s=books) Amazon’s page on Burgess’s _1985_. It is _most definately **not** _ the book I was talking about. Sadly, I can’t find the book on Amazon’s site that I’m speaking of. (Typing in “1985” yeilds well over a 1,000 possible titles and I ain’t digging through all of them.) The reason I say that **clayton\_e** shouldn’t do this is because I seriously doubt that **clayton\_e** ’s a good enough author to pull it off. No offense meant to **clayton\_e** at all, BTW. I seriously doubt _any_ author out there is good enough to pull this off. Not that I think Orwell was the greatest author of all time (though he certain ranks as one of my favorites), but in order to do what **clayton\_e** is proposing, and do it well, **clayton\_e** ’s going to have to be a _better_ writer than Orwell. No easy task, that. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/9 "2003-01-14T02:21:06Z")
**Kalashnikov** , a key reason I decided to write this. They both have the same goal (freedom from the state) but each has their own way of thinking about it. He is more philosophical and worries about issues that are distant but he doesn’t know as much about how to rebel on a small scale and get away from it. Julia, OTOH, is quite the opposite. Her thoughts are more on how to break rules and survive and she is indifferent to large issues that don’t touch on her life. **Garfield226** , I have read both and yes, that is very similar to what I am thinking of doing. I origionally thought of the idea while reading , but this book wasn’t nearly as connected it’s predecessor, Grendel ([here](http://home1.gte.net/tomchat/12chap.html) is a summary). ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/10 "2003-01-14T02:23:57Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\* The version I’m talking about was written by an author from a former Soviet satellite country and included an **autopsy** of BB_\* I don’t believe that BB was real and I doubt that anything written by an author who does believe this (and especially with an added “Big Sister” character) would be anything worth reading. Trust me, I’ll try to aim higher than that. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/11 "2003-01-14T02:28:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clayton\_e \* > \*\*I have read both and yes, that is very similar to what I am thinking of doing. I origionally thought of the idea while reading , but this book wasn’t nearly as connected it’s predecessor, Grendel ([here](http://home1.gte.net/tomchat/12chap.html) is a summary). \*\* Er… Sorry. That sentence really didn’t make much sense. What I was trying to say was that Grendel was not as connected to Baewolf as Card’s books were to each other, but I thought of the idea while reading Grendel and it brought me back to thinking of Card’s work. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/12 "2003-01-14T02:30:55Z")
Found it! The book I’m talking about is [1985 What Happens After Big Brother Dies](http://search.barnesandnoble.com/OopBooks/UsedBook.asp?userid=6WKTN1Z3VU&ean=2780977353696) by Gyorgy Dalos. A disgusting POS book if I’ve ever read one. I wish you the best of luck, **clayton\_e**. Do check into the rights, however, as I think that Dalos’s book mentioned that the author was granted permission by Orwell’s estate and since they’ve been playing around with copyright laws of late, you could run into trouble. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/13 "2003-01-14T02:35:01Z")
Thanks, **Tuckerfan**. I will look into that. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/14 "2003-01-14T02:47:29Z")
_Tuckerfan I am not talking about the Anthony Burgess version._ OK, point taken. I didn’t know of the other _1985_; thanks for the rerefence … \*The reason I say that clayton\_e shouldn’t do this is because I seriously doubt that clayton\_e’s a good enough author to pull it off. \* … but really it p\*\*\*\*s me off when people instantly react to an idea by telling the originator just not to bother. Orwell was not that good. The Anthony Burgess _1985_ is quite interesting in that it contains a preamble that picks to pieces the internal consistency of Orwell’s _1984_. There’s an online novel, [Orwell’s Revenge, a 1984 palimpsest](http://www.phuber.com/huber/orwell/orwells.html), that similarly dissects, and refutes, its world-view. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/15 "2003-01-14T02:52:21Z")
Before a fight ensues, let’s just wait until I’m done (with at least part of it) before making judgement either way. And in numerous interviews Orwell mentions that he thought he was a better essayist than an author of books (not an excuse for any mistakes in writing, just saying the great author had other things he thought he wrote better). ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/16 "2003-01-14T03:27:32Z")
_Before a fight ensues…_ Errm, yes. Sorry, it’s late here. Anyway, I think you should feel encouraged that others have successfully written reworkings from different character viewpoints. Apart from _Grendel_, there’s _The Wide Sargasso Sea_ (_Jane Eyre_ as seen by the mad Mrs Rochester), _Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead_ (Hamlet as seen by two minor characters); _Wicked_ (the _Wizard of Oz_ as seen by the Wicked Witch of the West); and so on. Your idea may not pan out, but I think it’s a very nice project. The thing to remember, I guess, is that _1984_ is generally viewed these days as a satire on Orwell’s circumstances in 1948 (_1948_ was the original intended title) rather than a realistic prediction, so getting hardboiled internal consistency is not so important. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/17 "2003-01-14T03:28:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by raygirvan \* > \*\*_Tuckerfan > I am not talking about the Anthony Burgess version._ > > OK, point taken. I didn’t know of the other _1985_; thanks for the rerefence … > > \*The reason I say that clayton\_e shouldn’t do this is because I seriously doubt that clayton\_e’s a good enough author to pull it off. \* > > … but really it p\*\*\*\*s me off when people instantly react to an idea by telling the originator just not to bother. Orwell was not that good. The Anthony Burgess _1985_ is quite interesting in that it contains a preamble that picks to pieces the internal consistency of Orwell’s _1984_. There’s an online novel, [Orwell’s Revenge, a 1984 palimpsest](http://www.phuber.com/huber/orwell/orwells.html), that similarly dissects, and refutes, its world-view. \*\* Yeah, well just because you _can_ do something, doesn’t mean you _should_. Had **clayton\_e** stated that he was going to write a modern version of _1984_, I would have been supportive. What **clayton\_e** ’s attempting to do is a very difficult task. One that others have attempted and **not** been successful at. Someone once wrote a sequel (and yes, I realize that **clayton\_e** ’s not writing a sequel) to _War of the Worlds_. It apparently wasn’t very good as it doesn’t seem to be in print. There was a movie with Julia Roberts called [Mary Reilly](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0117002) which was to _Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde_ what **clayton\_e** ’s attempting to do with _1984_ and it stank from what I understand. The problem with what **clayton\_e** ’s trying to do is that folks are going to immediately compare his work to Orwell’s and if it doesn’t measure up, then they’re going to hate it. That doesn’t mean that **clayton\_e** ’s a bad writer, but by doing what he’s attempting, he’s setting himself up to be a target of derision. **clayton\_e** may very well be capable of writing a decent novel, but by taking on Orwell’s characters, he’s placing himself in a precarious situation. This is not to say that it can’t be done. Tom Stoppard’s [Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0100519) is a hysterical take at two of Shakespeare’s characters which works quite well. Let’s all hope that **clayton\_e** has as much success as Mr. Stoppard did. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/18 "2003-01-14T03:37:07Z")
Nothing gained from not trying. I’ll see how it goes, maybe I’ll write a **Wide Sargasso Sea** , or maybe It’ll end up a bust like the **1985** that’s been mentioned. I’ll just let this thread go for a while, maybe respond if anyone has any questions. I’ll start some other one when I get further into the book. ---
**Author:** ![AnnaLivia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@AnnaLivia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnnaLivia)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/19 "2003-01-14T04:33:35Z")
Part of the reason Rosencrantz and Guildenstern worked well was because the text went beyond Hamlet and existed as a sort of hyper-text between Hamlet AND Waiting for Godot. The latter bit accomplished while the original author was still alive. There have been other disasters centered around major books, such as Laura Kalapakian’s “Cosette”, a sequal to Les Miserables (the original of which seems to pop up with some regularity on this board) which re-wrote large sections of the original book. I always had problems with projects like these for another reason- not quality of writing or doubts that people are good writers- but the fact that these characters started life in someone else’s head. I want to believe that people are good enough writers to create their own characters and not have to hang flesh on the skeleton of another person’s making. AL ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/20 "2003-01-14T05:28:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AnnaLivia \* > **I want to believe that people are good enough writers to create their own characters and not have to hang flesh on the skeleton of another person’s making.** True, But I feel it is more of a challange to realistically recreate a character that at one time existed only in another person’s mind. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424.md?page=2)