# I'm going to try to write the book 1984 from the POV of Julia (full length) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 14, 2003, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424 "2003-01-14T01:32:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LifeWillFall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/46a35a/32.png) [@LifeWillFall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeWillFall)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/21 "2003-01-14T07:37:41Z")
I think the idea of writing this book is very intersting, I’ve never read any of the altered pov books mentioned in this thread and like the idea. I think you may have made a poor character choice. Julia seems to be pretty complacent and the original 1984 had a clear message that was conveyed though Winston. Obviously you have ideas about where to take the character that I’m not aware of but I can’t see the story though Julia to be very interesting in the grander metaphoric sense 1984 was with Winston. It is something I would be interested in reading though, and now that I type this response I’m not even sure it has to have the same social impact at the original to be a worthwile read. Good luck and keep us updated especially if it ends up in publication. and if it doesn’t but you finish it, post it. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/22 "2003-01-14T13:01:44Z")
\*AnnaLivia I want to believe that people are good enough writers to create their own characters and not have to hang flesh on the skeleton of another person’s making. \* Well, OK, but the precedents for writers (including Shakespeare) reworking material and characters are very respectable, and the result may be good literature that adds a significant new take on the story. Other examples: George McDonald Fraser’s Flashman books, that are well-researched historical novels in themselves, notably _Royal Flash_, that’s an extended pastiche of _The Prisoner of Zenda_. _The Wind Done Gone_, that subverts _Gone with the Wind_ by rewriting it from the viewpoint of the subordinate black characters. _LifeWillFall Julia seems to be pretty complacent and the original 1984 had a clear message that was conveyed though Winston._ That would be the challenge. From what she says to Winston about having her done the same with others, her rebellion appears to start from a different motivation, and she has a fairly fatalistic view about the hopes of changing anything. _Tuckerfan (The author thought BB was a real person!)_ Ah. Just re-reading this in the light of day. I think I misunderstood. I took it as meaning the author thought BB existed _in our world_; presumably you meant that the author thought BB was a real person in the world of _1984_? I thought Orwell somewhat hedged his bets by letting O’Brien sidestep Winston’s question. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/23 "2003-01-14T13:53:34Z")
An intriguing project **clayton\_e** , even if it only turns out to be a very fancy way of reading an important book. A question: **what about the appendix?** You can’t very well leave it out. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/24 "2003-01-14T16:52:43Z")
I can guarantee that I’ll definitely read it! Btw. I don’t have the link but somewhere on the Net there is a charming little added chapter to Brave New World- apparently written as a high school assignment. Q’s I want to see answered are what makes Julia scream “DO IT TO WINSTON!”? and does she stay broken & finally emotionally capitulates to the love for BB? Personally, I’d love to see a look into religion as a socially disruptive/anti-totalitarian influence, but that’s just me _G_ ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/25 "2003-01-14T16:57:14Z")
I’ve done the same thing in an unpublished novella with R.M. Renfield of Stoker’s DRACULA. Also, I did get the idea from Orwell’s 1984 that Big Brother & maybe Emmanuel Goldstein had indeed been based on real people early in the Revolution- tho there was never any Goldsteinian rebellion to BB- and that the model of BB was probably long dead. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/26 "2003-01-14T17:22:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FriarTed \* > \*\*Also, I did get the idea from Orwell’s 1984 that Big Brother & maybe Emmanuel Goldstein had indeed been based on real people early in the Revolution- tho there was never any Goldsteinian rebellion to BB- and that the model of BB was probably long dead. \*\* I believe the inspiration of BB was Stalin and Goldenstein was based on Trotsky. The original title, by the way, was _The Last Man in Europe_. The second choice was _1984_ because he did switch the last two numbers around in the year 1948, when he wrote the majority of the book. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/27 "2003-01-14T17:25:41Z")
**FriarTed** , you did bring up one thing that I have not resolved in my plans, What will be Julia’s fear that they exploit? Winston’s had an obvious “foreshadowing” point, from when they were above the antique shop and they encounter a rat. But I can’t seem to find a suitable fear for Julia. I’m very interested in hearing any ideas on this subject, thankfully I have a while to think about it as it is far into the book. I’ll just drop in a small scene where her fear is described sometime in the first several chapters. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/28 "2003-01-14T17:25:43Z")
My mistake. “Goldstein” ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/29 "2003-01-14T18:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clayton\_e \* > **And if I never publish it or try to make money off of it I don’t think the estate will have much trouble with it** A dubious assumption, at least WRT US copyright law: [10 Big Myths about copyright explained](http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html) (See especially #2 and #6) ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/30 "2003-01-14T18:30:15Z")
_bean\_shadow I believe the inspiration of BB was Stalin and Goldstein was based on Trotsky._ That is the standard explanation, but nowadays there’s a growing view that his influences were mixed. Anthony Burgess, in the preamble to _1985_ (outlining the theory that the book is mostly a satire on 1948 England) notes that there was a widespread pre-war advertising campaign with the slogan “Let me be your big brother”. Or he might have been having a [dig at Fabian socialism](http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/158445.html), since many of the descriptions of Goldstein and the audience reaction are applicable to Sidney Webb. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/31 "2003-01-14T18:39:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by raygirvan \* > \*\*_bean\_shadow > I believe the inspiration of BB was Stalin and Goldstein was based on Trotsky._ > > That is the standard explanation, but nowadays there’s a growing view that his influences were mixed. Anthony Burgess, in the preamble to _1985_ (outlining the theory that the book is mostly a satire on 1948 England) notes that there was a widespread pre-war advertising campaign with the slogan “Let me be your big brother”. Or he might have been having a [dig at Fabian socialism](http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/158445.html), since many of the descriptions of Goldstein and the audience reaction are applicable to Sidney Webb. \*\* Orwell, like all great authors, no doubt blended elements that he was familar with in the real world for his work with _1984_. Someone wrote a book which mentioned that in England in 1948 people were scared of television because they thought that they actors would be able to see the viewers at home. (The author then attempted to claim that Orwell’s use of the “telescreen” in _1984_ was proof that Orwell believed such things, rather than, what seems more logical to me, Orwell reading about people’s mistaken fears and thinking, “Say, that’d be a damn good thing to put in my novel.”) ---
**Author:** ![AnnaLivia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@AnnaLivia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnnaLivia)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/32 "2003-01-14T19:27:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by raygirvan \* > \*\*Well, OK, but the precedents for writers (including Shakespeare) reworking material and characters are very respectable, and the result may be good literature that adds a significant new take on the story. Other examples: George McDonald Fraser’s Flashman books, that are well-researched historical novels in themselves, notably _Royal Flash_, that’s an extended pastiche of _The Prisoner of Zenda_. _The Wind Done Gone_, that subverts _Gone with the Wind_ by rewriting it from the viewpoint of the subordinate black characters. > \*\* Re: Shakespeare- the story often changed completely. The Ur-Hamlet bears only passing resemblance to what we know as Hamlet. Cordelia lived in all the source material for Lear. The Wind Done Gone works differently- An entirely new and hypothetical character is inserted- Scarlet’s black half-sister. An entirely possible character, she’s more akin to “Big Sister” in the _other_ 1985. (And I’m not knocking historical pastiche. I’m a big Sherlock Holmes fan, which almost by law means I’ve got at least the stories co-authored by Adrian Conan Doyle.) It’s more a scholarly exercise than a creative one. ---
**Author:** ![KoalaBear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47c2d/32.png) [@KoalaBear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KoalaBear)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/33 "2003-01-14T20:30:45Z")
> [@](#): > > _posted by **clayton\_e** _ > > I’m going to try to write the book 1984 from the POV of Julia (full length) Why? > [@](#): > > _posted by **raygirvan** _ > > …presumably you meant that the author thought BB was a real person in the world of 1984? I thought Orwell somewhat hedged his bets by letting O’Brien sidestep Winston’s question. Actually the question O’Brien sidestepped was whether _the brotherhood_ existed – he told Winston he’d never know the answer to that question so long as he lived. O’Brien explained that Big Brother was the embodiment of the party, so not only did he exist, he would never die. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/34 "2003-01-14T21:19:59Z")
_Koalabear_ I was thinking of the exchange: Winston: " Does Big Brother exist? " O’Brien: " Of course he exists. The Party exists. Big Brother is the embodiment of the Party. " Winston: " Does he exist the same way as I exist? " O’Brien: "You do not exist. " I read that as a deliberate sidestep of the intent - “Yes, but does BB exist as a flesh-and-blood person?” - of Winston’s further question. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/35 "2003-01-14T22:24:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KoalaBear \* > \*\*Why? \*\* Why not? And if anyone has any ideas on the “fear” that I can use for Julia it might be a good idea to put it in spoiler tags. Through the book she really doesn’t show a particular phobia on any specific thing, so I may have to go a step further and infer she is afraid of something due to a character trait that she has or a line that she said. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/36 "2003-01-14T23:34:40Z")
_AnnaLivia Re: Shakespeare- the story often changed completely … The Wind Done Gone works differently … It’s more a scholarly exercise than a creative one._ I don’t really see the division. If your criterion is that it brings in new material, clayton\_e’s idea qualifies. The world of _1984_ seen via Julia could be interesting: she’s younger and has grown up under the regime, and in many ways is far more streetwise than Winston in making a secret life. Unlike Winston, her motivations appear to revolve around sexual subversion of the system: she’s a member of the Junior Anti-Sex League and is considered safe enough to work in the pornography subsection of the novel-writing department, yet, starting at sixteen, has had relationships with hundreds of Party members. Or maybe she’s not telling the truth about this? Whatever the interpretation, there’s rich scope for exploring this very different character. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/37 "2003-01-15T01:38:46Z")
_has had relationships with hundreds of Party members_ Oops. Going by faulty memory. Actually it’s … Winston: ‘Have you done this before?’ Julia: ‘Of course. Hundreds of times – well scores of times anyway.’ … which I think raises the possibility that she’s exaggerating even about the scores of times. ---
**Author:** ![KoalaBear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47c2d/32.png) [@KoalaBear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KoalaBear)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/38 "2003-01-15T03:10:05Z")
> [@](#): > > posted by clayton\_e > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally posted by KoalaBear > > Why? > > Why not? I would think that you’re writing for a reason, yes? Otherwise you could simply load the novel into a word processor, do a global replace of ‘Winston’ for ‘Julia,’ and _voila_. More precisely, what inspires you to write a story about Julia rather than, say, O’Brien or Syme or the Parsons family or the sandy-haired girl a few chairs away from Winston during the Two Minutes Hate? What is it about her character that suggests to you her side of the story needs to be told? > [@](#): > > And if anyone has any ideas on the “fear” that I can use for Julia it might be a good idea to put it in spoiler tags. Dramatically speaking it’s the least of your worries. She’d have been (and in fact was) in and out of Room 101 like it was a manicurist’s appointment. > [@](#): > > posted by raygirvan > I was thinking of the exchange: > > Winston: " Does Big Brother exist? " > O’Brien: " Of course he exists. The Party exists. Big Brother is the embodiment of the Party. " > Winston: " Does he exist the same way as I exist? " > O’Brien: "You do not exist. " (in continuation) Winston: “I think I exist. I have arms and legs. I was born and I shall die. I am conscious of my own identity. In that sense, does Big Brother exist?” O’Brien: “It is of no importance. He exists.” Winston: “Will Big Brother ever die?” O’Brien “Of course not. How could he die? Next question.” Big Brother embodies the Party the same way Jesus Christ embodies the Church: both function as a focal point for feelings that are more naturally felt toward an individual than an organization. As for their reality, both exist “just as authentically, and on the same evidence, as Charlemagne or Julius Caesar.” ---
**Author:** ![Roadwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@Roadwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadwalker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/39 "2003-01-15T03:19:53Z")
Congrads and good luck on writing. I have a few comments: I spent two years in Budapest, Hungary when it was no longer a Soviet controlled nation. Still, the socialism was there. There was decay and filth that I never knew who much was just big city. (I grew up in Hawaii) All the apartments looked alike and the trains were old. Grocery stores often had only one brandf to select from. About Julia: Recall when O’Brian askes if they are willing to never see each other again. Julia outbursts a “no!” The party will have to dissasemble her love for him. I don’t know if she will need a “fear” to make her batry Winston. If they can make her hate herself, her lifestyle, and her relationship, she may come to realize a hatred for Winston also. I don’t know, go with it. Keep us posted okay? ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424/40 "2003-01-15T03:54:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Roadwalker \* > **Recall when O’Brian askes if they are willing to never see each other again. Julia outbursts a “no!” The party will have to dissasemble her love for him. I don’t know if she will need a “fear” to make her batry Winston. If they can make her hate herself, her lifestyle, and her relationship, she may come to realize a hatred for Winston also.** Interesting idea, I will think about it. And would it be ok if I contacted you asking about some conditions in Hungary? Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-try-to-write-the-book-1984-from-the-pov-of-julia-full-length/148424.md?page=3)