# I'm going to undertake a six-month occult ritual - ask me anything **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 1, 2025, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475 "2025-04-01T22:10:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/61 "2025-04-03T13:03:24Z")
šŸŽ¶ Who keeps Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the Martians under wraps? We do! We do! šŸŽµ ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/62 "2025-04-03T15:28:54Z")
i hope you find enlightenment. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/63 "2025-04-03T15:35:49Z")
Personally, I think the magic square that has the made-up word AREPO in it is pretty lame. Real words only! ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/64 "2025-04-03T18:12:56Z")
No snark but it seems like youā€™re continuing to post elsewhere ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/65 "2025-04-03T18:34:07Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > **Exodus 34: 11-14** (KJV) > Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite. > Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee: > But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves: > For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: How does that relate to your earlier post? Unless Smapti is a member of one of the aforementioned tribes (unlikely since they are all extinct, if they were ever historical), and since Smapti isnā€™t a Jewish person who is worshipping a foreign God, what part of the quoted text is the problem? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/66 "2025-04-03T18:48:42Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > No snark but it seems like youā€™re continuing to post elsewhere OP said he was going to start this after Easter, so heā€™s got to get it out of his system while he still can. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/67 "2025-04-03T18:52:45Z")
Saving on eggs, then, is just a happy side benefit šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/68 "2025-04-03T18:52:57Z")
The day after Easter is when I start. > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Saving on eggs, then, is just a happy side benefit Definitely gonna be eating a lot more eggs since I have to give up meat. Fortunately theyā€™ve gone down a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/69 "2025-04-03T19:00:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The day after Easter is when I start. Oh yeah. Sorry ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/70 "2025-04-03T19:23:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Nitpick: the Torah is the five books of Moses. The rest of the OT is called the Tanakh in Hebrew. Nitpick: The Tanakh is the entirety of the Hebrew Scriptures, and it _contains_ the Torah. **T** a **n** a **k** h is an acronym, which stands for: ā€œ **T** orahā€- the first five books of the Bible, also called the Five books of Moses ā€œ **N** eviā€™imā€- the Prophets ā€œ **K** etuvimā€- the Writings. More detail at Wikipedia and elsewhere. > **[Hebrew Bible](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible)** > > The Hebrew Bible or Tanakh\[a\] (/tɑĖĖˆnɑĖx/; Hebrew: ×Ŗַּנַדךְā€Ž tanaįøµ, ×ŖÖøÖ¼× Öøדךְā€Ž tānāįøµ or ×Ŗְּנַדךְā€Ž tənaįøµ) also known in Hebrew as Miqra (/miĖĖˆkrɑĖ/; Hebrew: מ֓קְ×ØÖøאā€Ž miqrāŹ¾), is the canonical collection of Hebrew scriptures, comprising the Torah (the five Books of Moses), the Nevi'im (the Books of the Prophets), and the Ketuvim ('Writings', eleven books). Different branches of Judaism and Samaritanism have maintained different versions of the canon, including the 3rd-century BCE Septuagint text Th... ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/71 "2025-04-03T20:56:15Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Unless Smapti is a member of one of the aforementioned tribes (unlikely since they are all extinct, if they were ever historical), and since Smapti isnā€™t a Jewish person who is worshipping a foreign God, what part of the quoted text is the problem? Originally, Kabbalah was a Jewish thing. The basic tenets were- The God of Abraham is real. No other gods are real. Hebrew is a sacred language. These are the secret magics contained in the Hebrew dictated by The Lord. Later, Christians wanted in. They changed the basic tenets. Later, other groups wanted in and changed a whole bunch of stuff- so much that they appear to have missed the point entirely. To perform a Jewish ritual from the Kaballah while worshipping any god other than the God of Abraham seems also to be missing the point. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/72 "2025-04-03T20:58:39Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > To perform a Jewish ritual from the Kaballah while worshipping any god other than the God of Abraham seems also to be missing the point. Hey, I didnā€™t _write_ the book. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/73 "2025-04-03T21:02:45Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Originally, Kabbalah was a Jewish thing. The basic tenets were- The God of Abraham is real. No other gods are real. Hebrew is a sacred language. These are the secret magics contained in the Hebrew dictated by The Lord. > > Later, Christians wanted in. They changed the basic tenets. > > Later, other groups wanted in and changed a whole bunch of stuff- so much that they appear to have missed the point entirely. > > To perform a Jewish ritual from the Kaballah while worshipping any god other than the God of Abraham seems also to be missing the point. I agree that God as described in the Jewish tradition (and "God of the Old Testemant as Crowmanyclouds puts it is a misnomer anyways, a lot of what Jews believe about Him doesnā€™t come directly from the pages of the written Torah, but from the oral traditions and Talmud, etc) might not like it if non Jewish people are doing Kabbalistic rituals. But thereā€™s absolutely nothing to support any of that _in the particular bit of text that Crowmanyclouds quoted_. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/74 "2025-04-03T21:23:20Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: > [@DocCathode](#): > > To perform a Jewish ritual from the Kaballah while worshipping any god other than the God of Abraham seems also to be missing the point. Text added for Discourse ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/75 "2025-04-03T21:24:30Z")
You might look into the Daā€™at Yichud. Theyā€™ve got the ancient, secret Jewish mystical order thing going, but their beliefs are based on pure reason and they do not require beliefs in Judaism. They also create a bunch of cool stuff useful for fighting Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2025, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/76 "2025-04-04T03:13:38Z")
When I was first just thinking about doing this and I was seeking advice in occult communities online, one thing which stuck in my head that a number of people said is that thereā€™s no such thing as ā€œauthenticityā€ when it comes to ritual magic. The Abramelin is an English copy of a French copy of a German copy of a Hebrew copy of a text that we donā€™t even know how old it was, we donā€™t even have the Hebrew copy to compare the modern editions to, and itā€™s entirely possible that its purported author wasnā€™t even a real person and that some 17th century Christian forger slapped together some miscellaneous volumes of Kabbalah that he found and attached a framing tale to it so he could sell a manuscript to some wealthy client of his. The 1896 translation by Mathers, which specifies the six-month timeline Iā€™m working from and which most modern occultists from Crowley onward have followed, is from that French copy, but more recently the older German manuscript was translated - and lo and behold, that version says itā€™s actually supposed to be eighteen months instead of six. So from that perspective, every single person in the English-speaking world who did the Abramelin for 100 years or more was doing it wrong - and yet, it still _worked_ in that it those people who completed it have said it was a positive experience and they came out it with a greater self-gnosis and feeling more confident in their metaphysical selves. The conclusion I come to from that is that it isnā€™t so much the form of the ritual that matters as the practitionerā€™s state of mind - you can follow every word of the book to the letter, but if you donā€™t believe itā€™s going to help you, it wonā€™t help you. A similar example is a much shorter ritual Iā€™ve done a few times called ā€œthe Headless Riteā€ or ā€œthe Bornless Riteā€. It comes from a body of texts called the Greek Magical Papyri - a collection of folk magic from Greco-Roman Egypt which are an odd mishmash of Greek, Egyptian, and Judeo-Christian ideas. This particular ritual is an exorcism which calls on a deity called ā€œAkephalosā€ or ā€œOsorronophrisā€ which is attested to solely in that one document, and is believed to be associated with Osiris or Set, but the act of summoning it includes declaring yourself a servant of Moses and chanting various Biblical names including Yahweh, Adonai, Sabaoth, and Isaac, along with Gaia and Diana. Another spell from the same collection calls on ā€œJesus, the god of the Hebrewsā€. You can just imagine a Jewish priest, a Greek hierophant, and all twelve apostles simultaneously rolling their eyes just thinking about the concept. Flash forward 2000 years and Aleister Crowley got his hands on it and turned it into a divination ritual addressed to a deity he called Aiwass, which is the form many modern occultists use it in today. When I used it, it was in an attempt to divine the name of my Holy Guardian Angel, and whether or not I was actually calling on some external force or just waking up something that only exists in my head, I felt a presence when performing it and I got a result that makes sense to me. This isnā€™t by any means a scientific process, but it goes to show that one is working in a realm which is beyond our ability to objectively study until the day we figure out how to read minds and figure out exactly whatā€™s happening in someoneā€™s brain when they do this stuff. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > You might look into the Daā€™at Yichud. Theyā€™ve got the ancient, secret Jewish mystical order thing going, but their beliefs are based on pure reason and they do not require beliefs in Judaism. They also create a bunch of cool stuff useful for fighting Nazis. The top search results Iā€™m getting for that are all Wolfenstein-related. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2025, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/77 "2025-04-04T03:20:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The top search results Iā€™m getting for that are all Wolfenstein-related. You can be the founding member in this branch of the multiverse, then! (Sorry, Iā€™m just poking gentle fun. I do wish you well. But it is a very strange undertaking.) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2025, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/78 "2025-04-04T03:23:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > it still _worked_ in that it those people who completed it have said it was a positive experience and they came out it with a greater self-gnosis and feeling more confident in their metaphysical selves. Did they ā€˜summon the Devil and his minions, engage in spiritual warfare with them, and force them to submit to the summoner and carry out the summonerā€™s willā€™ ya know, the thing the Abramelin Operation claims is the success condition? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2025, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/79 "2025-04-04T03:27:05Z")
Thatā€™s part of the process. Iā€™m in no posititon to accuse anyone who says theyā€™ve done it of lying about it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2025, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475/80 "2025-04-04T09:35:14Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Nitpick: The Tanakh is the entirety of the Hebrew Scriptures, and it _contains_ the Torah. > **T** a **n** a **k** h is an acronym, which stands for: > > ā€œ **T** orahā€- the first five books of the Bible, also called the Five books of Moses > > ā€œ **N** eviā€™imā€- the Prophets > > ā€œ **K** etuvimā€- the Writings. Thatā€™s a more elegant way of saying what I meant. I knew about the names for the three parts of the Tanakh, but I didnā€™t know the name itself was an abbreviation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-to-undertake-a-six-month-occult-ritual-ask-me-anything/1016475.md?page=5)