# I'm going up for a demo/discovery flight **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 18, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050 "2011-10-18T17:07:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/21 "2011-10-20T05:23:39Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > It was Boeing Field. I flew in there a couple times during my pilot days. It’s busy, and close to two other airports. Controlled airspace around SeaTac is shaped like an upside-down wedding cake. To come in from the west, you need to be below the SeaTac airspace, above the hills in West Seattle, and then make a hard turn to enter the traffic pattern. But if they clear you to the big runway, you’ve got huge room for error; you could almost land crossways. Good place for an intro flight, though. You got to see how complicated things can get. After that, most other GA airports would be a piece of cake. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/22 "2011-10-20T13:34:53Z")
I can’t wait to fly into Boeing Field. Haven’t done my BFR yet, due to competing responsibilities. Gotta get some VOR practice. I’ll definitely take an instructor with me before I tackle Seattle airspace. But speaking of confined airspace… They don’t like helicopters at Santa Monica. Seems people bought houses near the airport and then said, ‘Wait. There’s an _airport_ here! :eek: It must be closed.’ They haven’t managed to close it yet, but there are noise-abatement policies. One of them is that helicopters must maintain pattern altitude until crossing Ocean Blvd. on the north – which is a little tight if you’re landing on the north taxiway. One time I came in so steep I actually split the needles. ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/23 "2011-10-20T14:28:53Z")
Boeing field kicks ass, there’s a ton of helicopter activity. We come in from the east over Snoqualmie Pass, get low, and skirt Sea Tac. It’s a really cool way to see Seattle, there are two distinct clumps of sky scrapers that look like they are growing right out of the water. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/24 "2011-10-20T14:36:26Z")
Have a great time! I got my husband a demo helicopter lesson for his 35th birthday and he came home and said he wanted to change careers. Probably headed off a _real_ midlife crisis by saying “okay, let’s look at the numbers” instead of “are you freaking insane??”. Gotta watch the long-term consequences of that first flight. Actually, the consequences turned out great. If he had staying in computers there’s a decent chance his job would have been outsourced or handed off to someone half his age by now. Got into helicopters just in time to take advantage of the pilot shortage resulting from all the Vietnam-era vets retiring. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/25 "2011-10-20T14:45:49Z")
**Chopper9760** : Do helicopters use 123.025 in Seattle? ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/26 "2011-10-20T15:33:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > One of them is that helicopters must maintain pattern altitude until crossing Ocean Blvd. on the north – which is a little tight if you’re landing on the north taxiway. One time I came in so steep **I actually split the needles.** Rookie question: what does the bolded part mean? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/27 "2011-10-20T16:21:57Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Rookie question: what does the bolded part mean? An airplane’s tachometer measures engine revolutions. In a helicopter, the tach measures percent of engine revolutions and percent of rotor revolutions. The two needles are either superimposed, or they cross, depending on what kind of gauge is installed. When the engine is developing power the rotor system is connected to it via a freewheeling unit (‘Sprag clutch’) and the needles are ‘married’. In the event of an engine failure, or a power setting that resembles an engine failure, the engine RPM needle drops and the rotor RPM remains at or near 100%. (It had better stay there – and it requires pilot intervention to do it – or else you’re going to have a Bad Day.) So ‘splitting the needles’ means that the engine was not delivering power to the rotor system. That day, I was landing on the north taxiway at SMO. Since I was very close (laterally) to my intended touch-down point, I came in steeply. Thus I’d reduced the power to a point where the freewheeling unit disengaged and I was in autorotation. You should have seen the look on my instructor’s face when I told him. See, they had a policy of not allowing solo autorotations by private pilots. Insurance reasons, or something. (They also had a policy of not allowing private pilots to fly to Catalina.) ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/28 "2011-10-20T16:57:14Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Emerald City, WA; where did you fly out of? If it was Boeing Field, you’d need some hours before you’re ready to tackle that. Nh, with a little explanation, Boeing’s easy. I’ve done all of my student flying out of BFI to date. There’s so much instructional flying there that the controllers are especially accommodating. A few minutes with the instructor, the Terminal Area Chart and a pencil gave me a pretty solid feel for the airspace and the reporting points. ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/29 "2011-10-20T21:10:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > **Chopper9760** : Do helicopters use 123.025 in Seattle? I fly out of Felt’s Field, Spokane. When we go to Boeing it’s just a ferry flight to trade out R-22’s or R-44’s for their 100hr. Since it’s a discount flight we’re always straight into Boeing and straight back out. I’m 90% certain that I’ve only made radio calls to Boeing Tower 118.3/120.6 - hell, I had to look that up on [Airnav.](http://www.airnav.com/airport/BFI) I notice that 123.025 isn’t listed on the Airnav page. I know it’s the heli unicom but I’m not sure if it’s widely used. I’m working on instrument training right now, grinding out simulator hours. I’m anxious to shoot some approaches at GEG and it would be kickass to do some at SeaTac. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/30 "2011-10-20T22:09:00Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > I fly out of Felt’s Field, Spokane. When we go to Boeing it’s just a ferry flight to trade out R-22’s or R-44’s for their 100hr. Dang, I’d love to do that! ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/31 "2011-10-20T23:00:53Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Dang, I’d love to do that! If you ever get up to Spokane check out Inland Helicopters. They’re a great bunch of guys, relaxed atmosphere, great instructors. What are you flying? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/32 "2011-10-20T23:06:06Z")
Right now I’m flying a Skyhawk. They’re cheaper than helis. Before, I was flying a 300CB. Still a little heavy for an R-22 in case it crashes, but OK for an R44. Haven’t flown one of those yet. I’ll do the BFR in the Skyhawk, and then maybe check out the 300Cs at Snohomish. (They’re the closest ones.) Then later I’ll do R22s again. ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/33 "2011-10-20T23:09:44Z")
Congrats! I am so jealous! I hope you have a fabulous time. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/34 "2011-10-21T00:06:12Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > Congrats! I am so jealous! I hope you have a fabulous time. Thanks! The weather pattern is supposed to shift tomorrow and end the morning fog routine. So far, things are looking clear for Saturday morning! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/35 "2011-10-21T02:00:41Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > Nh, with a little explanation, Boeing’s easy. I’ve done all of my student flying out of BFI to date. There’s so much instructional flying there that the controllers are especially accommodating. A few minutes with the instructor, the Terminal Area Chart and a pencil gave me a pretty solid feel for the airspace and the reporting points. Which direction do you go from Boeing Field? I remember seeing a photocopied sheet once (probably at my FBO in Tacoma) that had the approaches and reporting points for Boeing. I only ever flew in from the west. I think there was a route to the south between SeaTac and Renton airspace. (Stay on your side of the railroad tracks.) Going out to the northeast wouldn’t be too bad. I hope I’m not hijacking[sup]\*[/sup] things too much, **Asmiovian**. Maybe this thread will help you notice a few things on your flight; airspace to avoid or who your pilot has to be talking to around different airports. Have a good time. - Not a good word to use in a thread about flying. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/36 "2011-10-21T02:41:34Z")
**Robot Arm** , it’s not a problem at all. The conversations in this thread got me thinking that there are enough aviation enthusiasts (and pretenders like me) on the board that we ought to have just a general aviation discussion thread, like some of the other ongoing threads around. Of course, in the interest of keeping things all about me for the moment, I wasn’t planning on raising the suggestion until AFTER my flight. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/37 "2011-10-21T04:35:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Which direction do you go from Boeing Field? I remember seeing a photocopied sheet once (probably at my FBO in Tacoma) that had the approaches and reporting points for Boeing. I only ever flew in from the west. I think there was a route to the south between SeaTac and Renton airspace. (Stay on your side of the railroad tracks.) Going out to the northeast wouldn’t be too bad. I don’t fly any more, but these two charts are representative of the procedures my instructor taught me. The practice areas we used generally called for us to use the Vashon or the Mercer departures and arrivals. Only flew the Renton departure once as it’s a pain in the ass to keep clear of the Seattle Class B and the Renton Class D. [![](http://www.mkaerospace.com/CFI/north.gif) ](http://www.mkaerospace.com/CFI/north.gif) [![](http://www.mkaerospace.com/CFI/south.gif) ](http://www.mkaerospace.com/CFI/south.gif) Here’s a Google Earth model of the Seattle area airspace: [http://isnoop.net/pub/aviation/KSEA\_Airspace\_v1.kmz](http://isnoop.net/pub/aviation/KSEA_Airspace_v1.kmz) ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/38 "2011-10-21T18:56:32Z")
Diamond schmiamond. Anyone can give it the gas and go for a burger. Get yourself a flight in a sailplane. On a day with lift. No need for headsets - its very quiet and the rising air is free! Circle with some hawks up to the base of the clouds (Well, almost to the base. You don’t want to break any regulations.) Most people are amazed that its possible to stay aloft for hours and travel hundreds of miles in an motorless aircraft. I’ve given many people rides and the most common word I hear after a flight is “awesome”. Indeed, it is. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/39 "2011-10-21T20:34:56Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > **Robot Arm** , it’s not a problem at all. The conversations in this thread got me thinking that there are enough aviation enthusiasts (and pretenders like me) on the board that we ought to have just a general aviation discussion thread, like some of the other ongoing threads around. > > Of course, in the interest of keeping things all about me for the moment, I wasn’t planning on raising the suggestion until AFTER my flight. 🆒 One of the things that surprised me when I started flying was how hard it was to see other airplanes. Depending on the angle, they’re the size of cars, you don’t know exactly where they’ll be, and they go faster so you want to be aware of them from farther away. If you want to appreciate what pilots do, keep an eye out for other traffic. You might want to ask your pilot if he wants you to point out other aircraft to him. > [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > [http://www.mkaerospace.com/CFI/north.gif](http://www.mkaerospace.com/CFI/north.gif) > [http://www.mkaerospace.com/CFI/south.gif](http://www.mkaerospace.com/CFI/south.gif) That’s about what I remember, and those diagrams must be about 11 years old. I still think that’s a fairly complicated set of procedures for a student who’s just starting out. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050/40 "2011-10-21T20:47:05Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > That’s about what I remember, and those diagrams must be about 11 years old. I still think that’s a fairly complicated set of procedures for a student who’s just starting out. It’s a little different now, for one thing, the West Seattle Reservoir the controllers loved to make me circle so much has a lid on it now and is impossible to see. I thought it was easy as a new student in the sense that the controllers had no problem telling you exactly what they wanted out of you. It was not uncommon to deviate from the standard procedures because the small runway was out of commission with earthquake damage so. I just always called in over Vashon or Bellevue then followed their instruction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-going-up-for-a-demo-discovery-flight/600050.md?page=3)