I'm going up for a demo/discovery flight

[billfish678]

@MikeF

Diamond schmiamond. Anyone can give it the gas and go for a burger. Get yourself a flight in a sailplane. On a day with lift. No need for headsets - its very quiet and the rising air is free! Circle with some hawks up to the base of the clouds (Well, almost to the base. You don’t want to break any regulations.) Most people are amazed that its possible to stay aloft for hours and travel hundreds of miles in an motorless aircraft. I’ve given many people rides and the most common word I hear after a flight is “awesome”. Indeed, it is.

I think these are some words of wisdom here. When I got interested in flying, it was with powered flight and like most people I had the idea that the point would be to fly from here to there. But the more I thought about it the more I realized it would probably be buzz around for a bit, then land back where I started. And in that case, I’d be spending 50 to a 100 dollars (or perhaps way more than that, havent kept up the costs) the whole time.

On the other hand, a glider (at least not the ultra high performance ones) are pretty darn cheap. They are simpler. They are quiter. They don’t require expensive engine preventative maintaince or repair. You don’t have to worry if the engine dies because you werent counting on it in the first place. And, once you are up, it ain’t costing you by the hour. If you are good and the conditions are right you can stay up as long as you can stand it.

Of course, that certainly depends on how glider friendly your particular location is. Note, I am not an actual pilot, just a aviation internet enthusiast. I guess what I am saying is if I finally get serious about flying I am certainly going to look into gliders seriously.

[Asimovian]

@Robot_Arm

One of the things that surprised me when I started flying was how hard it was to see other airplanes. Depending on the angle, they’re the size of cars, you don’t know exactly where they’ll be, and they go faster so you want to be aware of them from farther away.

If you want to appreciate what pilots do, keep an eye out for other traffic. You might want to ask your pilot if he wants you to point out other aircraft to him.

I’m both glad and unhappy to hear that, because it’s the issue that has concerned me most about learning to fly. My limited understanding is that when flying VFR, you have a great deal more responsibility for maintaining separation yourself (not that you shouldn’t always have your eyes open during IFR anyway, but you’d get more help in those circumstances), and I just don’t have any sense of how hard it is to see something that could be moving extremely fast and headed right at you. I wonder if I’ll have a natural sense of depth perception, or if I’ll have to learn it. When I hear people over ATC describing traffic or landmarks being a mile away or five miles away, I wonder how they’re able to estimate these things.

I’ll need to remember to ask these questions tomorrow.

[Senegoid]

@Asimovian

I’m both glad and unhappy to hear that, because it’s the issue that has concerned me most about learning to fly. My limited understanding is that when flying VFR, you have a great deal more responsibility for maintaining separation yourself (not that you shouldn’t always have your eyes open during IFR anyway, but you’d get more help in those circumstances), and I just don’t have any sense of how hard it is to see something that could be moving extremely fast and headed right at you. I wonder if I’ll have a natural sense of depth perception, or if I’ll have to learn it. When I hear people over ATC describing traffic or landmarks being a mile away or five miles away, I wonder how they’re able to estimate these things.

I’ll need to remember to ask these questions tomorrow.

Also, if there are other aircraft around that are below the horizon line (from your point of view), they can be hard to see against the background scenery. This can be especially hard if there is hilly terrain around, so the horizon line is irregular and higher than a flat distant horizon.

[Richard_Pearse]

@Asimovian

I wonder if I’ll have a natural sense of depth perception, or if I’ll have to learn it. When I hear people over ATC describing traffic or landmarks being a mile away or five miles away, I wonder how they’re able to estimate these things.

I’ll need to remember to ask these questions tomorrow.

You need to learn that stuff and it’s hard because you don’t often get any idea of how correct you are in your estimate. An easy one to start with is to remember that something on the ground at an angle of 45 degrees from you is the same distance away as you are off the ground. If you’re looking down out the window at 45 degrees at something and you are 6000’ above the ground then it is 1 nm away (6080 feet in a nautical mile.) From there you can start working out other distances. Other than that you just need to take note when you do know your distance from something and try to remember what that distance looks like.

Spotting other aircraft can be very difficult. You need to listen to the radio so you know roughly where to look, even then you might not see them. The problem is that an aircraft that is on a collision course with you has no relative movement across your windscreen and aircraft with no relative movement are the most difficult to spot.

[ElvisL1ves]

It’s true that you generally can’t see a light plane much over a mile away, but still, collisions are pretty rare. If you’re not at the same altitude, they don’t happen at all. Other traffic is certainly something you need to be aware of, but don’t let it scare you.

Seeing other planes is more a matter of looking for *motion *than a shape. Look steadily in the same direction for a few seconds and your eye and brain will detect something moving against the background much more easily than if you just move your eyes all around the sky. So, to scan for traffic, look steadily in one direction, at your altitude, then move your eyes around to another direction, etc.

[Chopper9760]

Radio calls help me with traffic a lot, knowing where to look is half the battle.

[Asimovian]

I have returned! I need to keep this brief because I’m on my way out the door, but I’m happy to answer any questions (assuming there are any).

The plane I was supposed to head out in this morning was grounded due to a transponder issue. So, after much debate from the folks involved, they decided to take me up in a Cessna 182 RG (N2396C).

We did the preflight checks and then did a runup to takeoff. He let me handle the yoke for take-off, pulling back to get off the ground. We went over Dodger Stadium and around downtown, but had to leave off the coastal part of the tour because of fog. Instead, we headed up to Pasadena, over the Rose Bowl and near JPL, and then he took me up over Azusa Canyon to look at some of the fire damage from years past. From there, we head back to KEMT. All in all, 0.7 hours of flight time which are now noted in my new Jeppesen Pilot Logbook

During the flight, he let me manage turns, climbs and a little bit of descent. I had a tendency to want to go into steeper banks than were necessary (or desired) at first, but eventually got a better hang of it, and he complimented me at one point on doing a perfect standard rate turn. He also said I was pretty good at holding a heading. He’d give me a target altitude and get me to try to manage straight-and-level flight. Most of the time, we were between 2,000 and 2,500 ft, except when we got into the canyons, where we climbed to a little over 5,000. He had me work with the trim just a little bit (he said that trim was essential for that particular aircraft), but I think I was probably too timid making the adjustments.

He took over for the landing, so I was hands off at that point, but I was enjoying running the show (for the most part – I think he was assisting with rudder control at points) while we were up. Definitely a good time, and probably something I’ll be willing to repeat. I won’t claim to be a complete addict, but I’m smiling.

OK – no time for spell check because I’m headed out, so apologies if this is illegible or incomprehensible!

[Johnny_L.A]

@Asimovian

He’d give me a target altitude and get me to try to manage straight-and-level flight. Most of the time, we were between 2,000 and 2,500 ft,

Of the target altitude? :eek:

Good show! I haven’t been in a Skylane since dad sold his. The last retractable I was in was a 177 Cardinal RG, and I was a right-seat passenger in that one. I suspect the Skylane feels a little ‘heavier’ than a Diamond. I know that compared to a Robbo, a Skyhawk handles like a pig. But I like them anyway. Proper trim lightens it up considerably. Speaking of which, I found out when I started flying again that a Skyhawk will be at its proper glide speed with the engine at idle and the trim all the way up. It sure lightens the load!

Congratulations on your first lesson. Once you get some more instruction, you’ll see even better how much fun flying is. Dad and I would fly from WJF to LAS for lunch. Lunch was just an excuse. The real purpose was to fly. Local flights are great, but I enjoyed flying over the desert. You can really see the geology from a few thousand feet up. You know what I liked best about cross-countries (aside from the actual flying, of course)? Looking down at the long lines of stop-and-go traffic. It’s good to be a pilot! Anyway, keep at it and soon you’ll be taking friends to Vegas, heading up to Harris Ranch for a steak, or chowing down on ‘$200 hamburgers’.

Pick up a Pacific Flyer and see what’s happening. When I lived down there I used it to keep track of airshows. You can also find things like pancake breakfasts and hangar dances.

You’ve mentioned money a couple of times. I hear ya, bro. But you might want to check out a heli flight as well. Helis aren’t as practical as airplanes, and they cost twice as much. But they’re loads more fun – especially on a sunny SoCal day with the doors off.

Keep us posted on developments! Those of us who are active pilots, lapsed pilots, returning pilots, students, or just generally interested in flying things will love to follow your Voyage of Discovery.

And I agree that The Great Ongoing General Aviation Thread would be fun.

[Asimovian]

@Johnny_L.A

And I agree that The Great Ongoing General Aviation Thread would be fun.

I’ve done my part; now you do yours. Please note the very inspired title I gave it.

[Johnny_L.A]

@Asimovian

All in all, 0.7 hours of flight time which are now noted in my new Jeppesen Pilot Logbook

Doesn’t that single entry look a little lonesome there all by itself? I think you need to add to it.

How much is the Diamond rental rate? I just googled one place in SoCal, and theirs is $158/hr ($150/hr block). As I said in the other thread, the Skyhawk up here rents for $110/hr. Assuming it takes an average person 55 hours to earn a license, renting a Cessna would save about $2,200. Does the FBO offer a Skyhawk or a Cherokee? If so, what’s the rate for that?

Personal opinion: I would have loved to learn to fly in a Beechcraft T-34. Of course nobody rents those, and they cost at least $150K to buy. A little cost-prohibitive to get a license in. A Skylane would have been fun too, since I’d have come out with a ‘high performance’ endorsement. But ab initio training is about learning the basics. There’s no need to fuss with manifold pressure and a constant-speed prop or retractable undercarriage (though it does make the GUMP check make more sense ) when you’re just learning how to maneuver.

So when you start training in earnest I think you should seek out a school that offers a Skyhawk or a Cherokee. They’re less expensive than the Diamond, and less complicated than the Skylane. My personal choice would be a Skyhawk. In my case, the Skyhawk was chosen for me because that’s what dad had. But even without that, the Skyhawk has advantages. It’s a very forgiving aircraft. I think they are easier to get into and out of than a low-wing plane like the Cherokee, since I can just step right up into them. (The Grumman AA5, a low-wing aircraft, is easier IMO because of the sliding canopy, but nobody rents those anymore.) The view from a high-wing plane is great. Not so much in turns, but most of the time I like an unobstructed view downward. I think the greatest advantage to a Skyhawk is that there are so many of them. I think it would be slightly easier to rent one than a Cherokee. Of course more and more FBOs have Diamonds ans Cirruses. They’ll be pretty common to rent eventually. But you can’t go wrong with a Skyhawk. And you can always get checked out in the more expensive planes later.