# "I'm having an affair.", and more... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 27, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867 "2014-01-27T17:57:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/201 "2014-02-04T18:53:54Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > To the OP: There’s no way to extract yourself out of marriage, or even a friendship, without drawing some blood. So get over the idea that you can leave without someone getting hurt. It ain’t going to happen. My advice to you is to get out of no-man’s-zone asap and pick a damn side. And then when you do, act as humanely and decently as possible, and stop the cruel campaign against your wife, which is only serving to make yourself feel better, so that the collateral damage will be minimized. Yep. Too many people who don’t want to be the bad guy, so they cause themselves and everyone around them twice as much misery than if they’d just been selfish and done what they wanted to do anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/202 "2014-02-04T22:08:35Z")
I think it’s implicit in the suggestions of counseling that the OP approach that process in good faith, and not simply as a means to shift responsibility for an eventual breakup onto his wife. Certainly, if the OP’s state of mind has reached a point where he has in fact decided to leave, and counseling would be a deceptive exercise, then I’m not going to encourage him to pursue it. More generally, though, in suggesting counseling, I’m relying on the fact that the whole point of this thread was the OP reaching out for advice. Assuming that this thread was opened in good faith, I take that to mean that he genuinely has not yet made up his mind. And if he’s willing to ask us for our thoughts, why not engage a professional counselor, who has some training and makes a living giving advice? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/203 "2014-02-04T23:35:03Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > And if he’s willing to ask us for our thoughts, why not engage a professional counselor, who has some training and makes a living giving advice? I would agree with that advice wholeheartedly if he’d give up his mistress so that he can think with a clear head. Mistresses have a huge advantage over wives because they exist in a secret, exciting fantasy land, apart from kids and mortgages and everyday “real” problems. Who can compete against that? ---
**Author:** ![ThePretender919](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19b73/32.png) [@ThePretender919](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThePretender919)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/204 "2014-02-05T14:24:29Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > Where is she going if she has no friends or hobbies? Aren’t you really just ‘babysitting’ while she grocery shops? She goes out shopping mostly. And not just to the grocery store or Walmart, which she usually does during the week sometime… to the mall, to the bookstore, wherever. > [@](#): > > Evey now and then you give her some time off? How sweet of you. I do it when I can. I’d say every weekend I encourage her to get out of the house by herself for some amount of time. Sometimes she says she just wants to relax at home or nap, and I’ll take the kids to the park or whatever. > [@](#): > > How does she go out on one of those rare group things if she has no friends- “I mean none?” Like I said, she has acquaintances, not friends. She’ll go out with a group of these acquaintances very rarely. Like, once or twice a year rare. She doesn’t talk to hardly any of them in between. > [@](#): > > How have you ‘helped’ her address her introversion? Did you just tell her she’s an introvert and wander away? I encourage her to talk to folks, to ask them out for dinner, even just to invite them and their kids over to play and hang out. “Do you like XXX? She seems nice. Maybe you should invite her out to dinner or invite her and XXX over to play sometime.” Things like that. I can’t force her to make an effort. When we are in group settings she just sits in the corner and doesn’t talk to anyone. Doesn’t try to make conversation. Nothing. We were at a superbowl party this weekend. There were a ton of kids running around and playing. There were 10-12 adults there, a couple that we knew well and the rest were new friends of friends. It was fun. I don’t think that my wife said a single word besides “Hello” and “Nice to meet you” to any adult for the few hours we were there. She spent the entire party sitting at the end of a couch and walking into the playroom to check on the kids (who were fine and didn’t need to be checked on). Literally, absolutely no exaggeration. > [@](#): > > An example or two of her negative attitude, please… I gave one earlier in the thread about my mother offering to babysit so we could go out, with her literally responding with a “Eh.”. I can’t think of specific examples at the moment, but I will try to take some notes. She is the epitome of a glass half empty person, and it comes out in a huge percentage of her responses to any comment or situation. ---
**Author:** ![ThePretender919](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19b73/32.png) [@ThePretender919](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThePretender919)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/205 "2014-02-05T14:37:26Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > OP, you can’t blame people for not taking your explanations as the 100% literal unbiased FACTS of the matter. For one thing, you _can’t_ be unbiased because you’re one of the parties involved in an emotional matter. For another thing, by your story, you’ve been absolutely perfect and contributed to the unhappiness of your marriage in no way whatsoever–she’s absolutely without question 100% of the problem, nothing at all you could or should have done differently. There are sometimes cases like that, but they’re incredibly rare. > > Problems and relationships and problems with relationships are often like Impressionist paintings–when you’re right up on them, it can be really hard to perceive what’s obvious from even a few steps away. That’s why people are recommending you see a counselor, someone who is standing that little distance away and can tell you about things he or she is seeing from that distance that you’re not seeing because you’re so close up. > > Out of curiosity, all these days that her mom is there full time or you have a baby-sitter…are those by any chance the days she’s working? Because “Of course she’s not overwhelmed, she doesn’t have to deal with the kids at all when she’s at her job” is…well, I have no words fit for this forum for what that is. > > From what you’ve said, I think the issue isn’t that your wife is introverted. (Introversion is NOT a character flaw or emotional problem, and nothing will create a rift between one of us and an extrovert faster than trying to “help us address” the very essence of who we are.) The problem is likely that your wife is _depressed_. The lowered libido, the increased reclusiveness, the weight gain, the indifference to suggested plans you’d think she would enjoy (assuming you’re actually suggesting things you have reason to think she’d enjoy), the lack of follow-through, the feeling that what sounds like a pretty minor amount of effort is a huge deal…it’s all pretty classic. A kiss, even a big old sloppy one,\* seems like a negligible amount of effort to a healthy person. But to a depressed person, it often takes everything they’ve got just to get through the day doing the bare minimum. Think about times you’ve been physically sick–not sick enough to stay in bed, but sick enough that basic stuff like showering and feeding yourself and picking up after yourself just about wipes you out. Adding in even small stuff seems like a huge, huge effort, right? For many people with untreated depression, that’s the day-to-day normal. > > \*No woman who has just heard a man say “I’m totally unattracted to you, but hardly any of that is because you’re so fat, it’s mainly that you’re a big old boring slug who never wants to fuck me,” is going to be suffused with lust and want to stick her tongue down his throat the second he walks in the door. That is not how human beings work. I understand, and I won’t expect everyone to take my words as gospel. I am trying to be as honest as possible so that I can get honest responses. I also understand that I have contributed. Like I’ve said, rarely is anything black and white. I understand that there are two parts to the relationship. It’s one of the reasons that I flat out asked her what I could do better a few years ago when we had the first serious conversation. Perhaps counseling would allow me to better understand my contributions. She works for a few hours a day, at home. She has someone at the house every day, both during her working hours and during the other parts of the day. There is always someone there while she’s working, of course, but it’s very rare that she’s on her own with the kids for an extended period of time when she’s NOT working. Believe me, I understand that taking care of kids is not a vacation or walk in the park. \*That summation of our conversation has been repeated multiple times, and is off base. ---
**Author:** ![ThePretender919](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19b73/32.png) [@ThePretender919](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThePretender919)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/206 "2014-02-05T14:44:02Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > One reason the wife probably hasn’t poured on the affection despite the OP’s request is that she doesn’t believe he really wants affection from her. And in turn, this makes her less affectionate. > > I don’t doubt the OP desires affection. But it strains credibility to think he actually wants it from someone whose weight and disposition repels him. If she’s reasonably intelligent and even remotely attuned to nonverbal communication, she will know that his feelings are not consistent with his stated wishes. > > So she doesn’t kiss him or hold his hand or any of that. Why? Because what’s more demeaning than kissing someone when you know they don’t want you? It would be a charade. She could kiss him, sure. But then what? Is that going to make her less introverted? More svelte? More _new_? More like the woman he’s having the affair with? > > Affection is rather hard to summon on command. A forced hug is worse than no hug at all, because it’s the feelings behind the hug that matter more than the actual contact. > > So how does one get the feelings back? I have no clue. Not married, and have never had to go through anything like this. But I don’t think it’s impossible if two people are committed to staying together no matter what. I understand this. I think some people did not read about the conversation from a few years ago. That conversation was PURELY me saying “I think our relationship could use improvement, what should we do?”. She told me some things I could do, I told her some things she could do. There was NOTHING in that conversation about weight, demeanor/introversion, etc. It was what should have been the epitome of a healthy marriage conversation. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/207 "2014-02-05T14:49:23Z")
> [@ThePretender919](#): > > I understand this. I think some people did not read about the conversation from a few years ago. No, I totally get that. You didn’t tell her you’re unattracted to her in that conversation. What I’m saying is that she doesn’t feel attractive, so she doesn’t believe you when you say you need her to show more affection. ---
**Author:** ![ThePretender919](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19b73/32.png) [@ThePretender919](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThePretender919)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/208 "2014-02-05T14:53:06Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > My sister was involved in a very similar situation. She was in a marriage to a nice guy, with 2 kids and a dog and white picket fence. Trouble is, over the years she’d fallen out of love with him. The spark that we all crave was missing. Because she wanted to leave him without a socially acceptable “good” reason, spurred on by her conscience and guilt, she began demonizing him. > > The campaign she waged against him, via “marriage counseling” was cruel and relentless. Let’s see: He wasn’t social enough. He’d pressured her into getting married when she was on the rebound. He’d gained weight. He was a spender and she was a saver. He didn’t like to travel. He liked to watch too much t.v. He didn’t spend enough time with his male friends. He never offered to watch the kids so she could have a “life,” too. His family wasn’t supportive enough. The list went on and on, Her unhappiness was clear to everyone. What was also clear to everyone is that HE hadn’t changed at all. He was the same guy she’d married. However, SHE had changed. > > After it was discovered that she was having an affair, it all began to make so much more sense. Had he just been a drug addict or a wife beater, he’d have come out of that marriage less scarred, I believe. Her quest to find fault with him, so that she could rationalize leaving him, caused far more wounds to his psyche than her ultimate decision to leave him. By the time she left, he was a beat dog. > > When she FINALLY cut all the bullshit she was trying to pull over on everyone, and 'fessed up that she was in love with someone else, it was the first honest thing she’d done in months, possibly years. And the relief she felt afterward was immense. > > I had a conversation with her, soon after I learned of the affair. She was in the same purgatory that the OPer is in, and all she did was cry. She just couldn’t rationalize leaving a perfectly nice husband, father and provider because she’d been taught that divorce was wrong. \*\*She loathed the idea of breaking up her little family, but she loathed the idea of staying in a loveless marriage, too. And then there was the social fallout. She was a people pleaser, and didn’t want people to think ill of her. She saw herself as being “too nice” to hurt a really decent, honorable man. \*\* > > In that conversation, I asked her to envision an ideal outcome to the situation she was in. She said, “I want to get married to my (soul mate lover) and remain friends with (her husband).” I told her that she should move mountains to make that happen, then. Because being in no-man’s-zone was making everyone miserable. It’s far less cruel to divorce someone than it is to demonize them, and make them feel like shit about themselves, because you’re too “nice” to hurt them. > > To the OP: There’s no way to extract yourself out of marriage, or even a friendship, without drawing some blood. So get over the idea that you can leave without someone getting hurt. It ain’t going to happen. My advice to you is to get out of no-man’s-zone asap and pick a damn side. And then when you do, act as humanely and decently as possible, and stop the cruel campaign against your wife, which is only serving to make yourself feel better, so that the collateral damage will be minimized. PunditLisa - thanks. There is a lot of truth in here. I have not demonized her to anyone that I know. In this thread I have tried to explain the actions and character traits that let me to where I am with my feelings, but I have admitted that she is not a “bad” person. I hope it doesn’t come off as a “cruel campaign”. The bolded is on point. I guess I still don’t know what my “ideal outcome” is. ---
**Author:** ![ThePretender919](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19b73/32.png) [@ThePretender919](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThePretender919)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/209 "2014-02-05T15:08:41Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I saw a foreign film yesterday that made me think of this thread and the OP’s all-too common predicament. One of the characters cheats on his wife and mother of his 3 kids. His mistress is a early 20-something woman. The only thing this new chick clearly has over his wife is that she is young and pretty and free of dependents. Being involved with her allows him to enjoy the edgier aspects of youthful living again. Eating pizza on the floor at midnight after spontaneous sex. Going to a furniture store and playing with the merchandise lke giggling kids. Being dramatic and emotionally insecure and irresponsible like young infactuated lovers typically are. > > The OP sounds like someone who missed out on this stage of life, or he had it and desperately wants it back. Maybe he’s feeling that any marriage that doesn’t start with these heady rollercoaster moments is inferior or doomed. Maybe he feels severely shortchanged that he didn’t get to experience the fun of being in lust with someone (like it seems like everyone else on the planet has…because that’s what movies suggest), and this sense of deprivation has driven him to look outside his marriage. Maybe he feels that with a wife and multiple kids chained to him, his days of youth are forever gone and wasted. Maybe he feels like he never took any real chances in life, and the woman he’s currently seeing is that once-in-a-lifetime chance. > > I don’t think putting the OP through massive guilt-trips is the answer, but I do think he should be honest with himself. Is this _really_ about his wife? Or is this really about his dissatisfaction with life in general and the choices he’s made? > > What would be the harm in separating for a while and seeing what life is like as a quasi-bachelor? I think that would be a wiser choice that immediately jumping to divorce, and it would also allow you figure out what you really want. Maybe some distance would good for your wife too. You’ll get to see how less contact with your kids can suck in ways you might not really appreciate now. It’s about both. They are tied together. I really don’t want the bachelor life. I don’t want to go out and get drunk every night and hook up with a bunch of women. I love the family/marriage model. I DO want to experience life and enjoy it. I want a partner who wants to do things with just me, but also with friends, and smiles and has fun doing them. I want a partner who I can enjoy both the family life and the marriage/romantic life with. So, the choices I’ve made have led me to this point in life. And at the moment I’m unhappy with my partner, and the life that comes along with that. ---
**Author:** ![ThePretender919](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19b73/32.png) [@ThePretender919](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThePretender919)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/210 "2014-02-05T15:32:59Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > No, I totally get that. You didn’t tell her you’re unattracted to her in that conversation. > > What I’m saying is that she doesn’t feel attractive, so she doesn’t believe you when you say you need her to show more affection. Right, so what is the solution to that? From my perspective, I’ve done all that I physically can over the course of our marriage to help with her issues with that. I am not trained to deal with her mental issues, if that’s what they are. I guess professional counseling is the last resort from that point of view. But how exactly do you have that conversation? “Hey, I think you’re depressed and have a shitty self image and it’s affecting our marriage. You should go see a counselor to try and fix yourself.” She has denied being depressed or unhappy in the past. ---
**Author:** ![GrizzRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@GrizzRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrizzRich)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/211 "2014-02-05T15:48:37Z")
> [@ThePretender919](#): > > …/snip/ But how exactly do you have that conversation? “Hey, I think you’re depressed and have a shitty self image and it’s affecting our marriage. You should go see a counselor to try and fix yourself.” > > She has denied being depressed or unhappy in the past. Perhaps approach it from a more “I care about you and want you to be healthy and happy” place than from the one you’ve outlined above. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/212 "2014-02-05T16:29:39Z")
> [@ThePretender919](#): > > Right, so what is the solution to that? I don’t know what the solution is. Just saying that it’s counterproductive to act as though her changing her behavior will fix your feelings towards her. I think this is delusional. I don’t think you have to be crazy in love with your wife to have a good relationship. IMO, you do need to be committed to the commitment, though. It’s not about the person you’re with, but the union. The family you’ve made. The legacy you’ll want to look back on years from now and take pride in. Your youngest child is 3. In a couple years, they’ll be in school. What could come with this milestone? Maybe your wife will get out of the rut she’s in and start improving herself. Maybe you’ll have discovered a new hobby that gets your mind off your present discontent, and you’ll find that life ain’t so bad with her after all. Before throwing in the towel, get counseling. Do it because your communication strategies thus far have been ineffective in making things better. You owe it to your conscience and your kids to at least try to hold it together a little while longer. ---
**Author:** ![ThePretender919](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19b73/32.png) [@ThePretender919](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThePretender919)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/213 "2014-02-05T16:54:15Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I don’t know what the solution is. Just saying that it’s counterproductive to act as though her changing her behavior will fix your feelings towards her. I think this is delusional. > > I don’t think you have to be crazy in love with your wife to have a good relationship. IMO, you do need to be committed to the commitment, though. It’s not about the person you’re with, but the union. The family you’ve made. The legacy you’ll want to look back on years from now and take pride in. > > Your youngest child is 3. In a couple years, they’ll be in school. What could come with this milestone? Maybe your wife will get out of the rut she’s in and start improving herself. Maybe you’ll have discovered a new hobby that gets your mind off your present discontent, and you’ll find that life ain’t so bad with her after all. > > Before throwing in the towel, get counseling. Do it because your communication strategies thus far have been ineffective in making things better. You owe it to your conscience and your kids to at least try to hold it together a little while longer. How is it delusional to believe that my wife changing her behavior will change my feelings towards her? I don’t get that at all. How a spouse acts, how they respond to you, etc., are all parts of why we are attracted to them. Changes in those behaviors could and likely would have a direct affect on your feelings towards them. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/214 "2014-02-05T17:29:41Z")
> [@ThePretender919](#): > > How is it delusional to believe that my wife changing her behavior will change my feelings towards her? I don’t get that at all. > > How a spouse acts, how they respond to you, etc., are all parts of why we are attracted to them. Changes in those behaviors could and likely would have a direct affect on your feelings towards them. The reason is because you’re in love/lust with someone else. You said she’s your soulmate and you can’t find a single flaw in her. How can your wife possibly compete with that? She could become Wife of the Year all of a sudden and it still wouldn’t be enough. It’s been said over and over in this thread - nothing’s going to change in your marriage while this affair is still going on. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/215 "2014-02-05T17:48:18Z")
> [@ThePretender919;17077446](#): > > I really don’t want the bachelor life. I don’t want to go out and get drunk every night and hook up with a bunch of women. I love the family/marriage model. Then don’t. There are plenty of bachelors who dont do those things. > [@](#): > > I DO want to experience life and enjoy it. I want a partner who wants to do things with just me, but also with friends, and smiles and has fun doing them. I want a partner who I can enjoy both the family life and the marriage/romantic life with. > > So, the choices I’ve made have led me to this point in life. And at the moment I’m unhappy with my partner, and the life that comes along with that. Here’s the problem as I see it- you’re unhappy with your wife but remain married becaue you prefer married life to the bachelor life. And of course after only a few months, you don’t yet know if your soulmate with will leave her husband . It kind of seems as if you want to remain married as a back-up plan, in case it doesn’t work out with the soulmate. What you need to decide is not only if you prefer “the married life” to the “single life”, but if you prefer “the married life with this wife without affairs” to “the single life”. Because that’s the decision you have to make- it’s not fair to remain married and keep her tied to you while you continue the affair. I agree with the suggestion that you move out to figure this out and also that you end the affair while you’re separated. It’s like I told an acquaintance who was planning to marry someone from another country that he met on line and spent very little time with. Everybody is on their best behavior, since you have so little time together. You both refrain from your annoying habits, (many of which you don’t have the opportunity to display during your limited time together) and more easily forgive any of the other’s habits because again, so little time together. Your soulmate might have plenty of flaws if you lived with each other. My husband and I get along much better when we are on vacation staying in hotels and eating in restaurants than we do when we are home and have to go to work , maintain the house, and have various other obligations.\* Because it’s the same person, I know it’s because of the environment. If my vacations/dinners at restaurants were with a different person , it might make my relationship with my husband seem worse than it really is. - We get along fine at home- but there’s a certain amount of stress that just comes with living in the real world that doesn’t happen in vacation world where the inlaws are never visited, where meals don’t involve shopping , cooking and cleaning up, where we never have to go buy a new refrigerator tonight because ours broke, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/216 "2014-02-05T17:58:55Z")
> [@ThePretender919](#): > > It’s about both. They are tied together. > > I really don’t want the bachelor life. I don’t want to go out and get drunk every night and hook up with a bunch of women. I love the family/marriage model. > > I DO want to experience life and enjoy it. I want a partner who wants to do things with just me, but also with friends, and smiles and has fun doing them. I want a partner who I can enjoy both the family life and the marriage/romantic life with. > > So, the choices I’ve made have led me to this point in life. And at the moment I’m unhappy with my partner, and the life that comes along with that. You aren’t going to get that. There are three outcomes here: You live with your wife in the best marriage that the two of you can cobble together - it won’t be perfect - it will take work - and it may mean accepting her introvert tendancies. You divorce your wife, your girlfriend divorces her husband, and even if you partnership is perfect with her (and it WON’T be, I have the most incredible relationship with my husband, we have been married seventeen years and have known each other thirty - and he still drives me batshit crazy some days (as I do him) and we still have our ups and downs and our stresses), you’ll still have a life where you have her kids, and your kids, and split holidays four ways from Sundays as your various children try to make it to all their relatives - and vacations where you have to negotiate which set of kids to take - or both sets - and teenage years where one of your kids says “screw you, I’m living with Dad” and just moves in - disturbing the house with teenage petulance - and three sets (minimum) of household rules and having to deal your whole life with each others ex - because of the kids…You might have a better relationship - but you are going to add a lot of logistical stress - and that will stress the relationship - and right now, two people in stressful relationships are releasing that stress through cheating with each other… You divorce your wife, but your girlfriend chooses to make a go of it - now you are a bachelor until you can find a new wife. And divorced men with little kids aren’t exactly the catch of the season. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/217 "2014-02-05T18:05:57Z")
> [@ThePretender919](#): > > How is it delusional to believe that my wife changing her behavior will change my feelings towards her? I don’t get that at all. Your wife was introverted when you married her, right? But that didn’t keep you feeling well enough of her to marry her. Maybe she’s less social now, but unless she was a party-loving butterfly before and is now living like a hermit, I don’t get why this would be enough to turn you off of her. If your wife started greeting you at the door with French kisses would that make you fall in love with her? If everything else stayed the same, would that make you feel more attracted to her? Because I’m not seeing how, when you’ve emphasized how much her weight and personality displease you. Maybe I missed something in your OP, but I don’t see that your wife has changed all that much since the beginning. Your feelings about her have changed, but that doesn’t necessarily mean she has caused that. > [@](#): > > How a spouse acts, how they respond to you, etc., are all parts of why we are attracted to them. Changes in those behaviors could and likely would have a direct affect on your feelings towards them. What attracted you to her before all this change occurred? Have the qualities you used to find endearing changed? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/218 "2014-02-05T18:10:35Z")
> [@ThePretender919](#): > > Right, so what is the solution to that? > > From my perspective, I’ve done all that I physically can over the course of our marriage to help with her issues with that. I am not trained to deal with her mental issues, if that’s what they are. I guess professional counseling is the last resort from that point of view. > > But how exactly do you have that conversation? “Hey, I think you’re depressed and have a shitty self image and it’s affecting our marriage. You should go see a counselor to try and fix yourself.” > > She has denied being depressed or unhappy in the past. You say "I think WE need to go to a counselor. I am very stressed about the state of our relationship - it isn’t healthy - and we are going to have to change it or we won’t stay married. I’m don’t know if I want to stay married now. I’m going to go to a counselor to figure that out, and I think you should go with me. AND you break off the affair. At least until you make up your mind for sure about the marriage, and at least until you have been separated for a respectable amount of time - at least three months. If you EVER had ANY love for your wife, let her save face by doing that much. If you care about your relationship with your kids, you never want them to overhear “he left me for another woman - I think they were seeing each other before we even separated.” Because if your kids love your wife, they will hold that against you the moment they understand what it means. I have a friend who has a recent divorce because her husband was cheating on her. Her children are older than yours - and they share custody. And she remains respectful towards their father. But she can’t keep them from overhearing things. So her son is ANGRY at his Dad. If he didn’t have to stay with him, he wouldn’t - and I suspect that at eighteen, he will sever relations. Her daughter is withdrawn to everyone - Mom, Dad, Grandparents, Friends - she can’t trust. The youngest is still sort of clueless - she is worried that when he does figure it out, he’ll feel that he betrayed his mom by having a relationship with his Dad (he likes Mom more and just blames Dad for not living there any more). You don’t say “I think **you** are depressed and **you** should get help.” You let the counselor tell her if they think she needs individual counseling for depression. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_Hey_Paula)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/219 "2014-02-05T21:31:43Z")
I have a question for you, OP. So your wife is an introvert, and you’ve posted that she has people in the house to help with the kids while she works, etc, and you give her “time off” so she can go out and do whatever on her own on the weekends. But when does she get leisure time alone at home? No kids, no other adults, no husband, and no chores or other pressing things she must do? When does she get to lounge in the bath reading a book and enjoying a glass of wine, or work on a hobby, or watch silly TV shows that no one else likes, or whatever she might enjoy, with no one at home to interrupt her? Do you ever give her that opportunity? I’m only a partial introvert, and with my husband’s illness/disablity, I never get time alone at home (except for the six weeks he was in hospital last summer, but that’s a different story.) And sometimes it drives me nuts. (At least I don’t have little kids to look after.) She may not even be able to express to you that she wants this. But in your description of her behavior at the superbowl party, it seems to me that (she and you) might have been happier if you’d taken the kids to the party and left her on her own for a few hours. She might just need some blessed, blessed silence every now and then. It probably wouldn’t hurt to offer it to her. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867/220 "2014-02-06T01:24:22Z")
> [@ThePretender919](#): > > \ > I guess I still don’t know what my “ideal outcome” is. That’s something you really do need to figure out. As some songwriters have said, you can’t get what you want until you know what you want. > [@doreen](#): > > \ > Here’s the problem as I see it- you’re unhappy with your wife but remain married becaue you prefer married life to the bachelor life. \ It sort of looks that way to me, too. > [@ThePretender919](#): > > Right, so what is the solution to that? > > From my perspective, I’ve done all that I physically can over the course of our marriage to help with her issues with that. I am not trained to deal with her mental issues, if that’s what they are. I guess professional counseling is the last resort from that point of view. > > But how exactly do you have that conversation? “Hey, I think you’re depressed and have a shitty self image and it’s affecting our marriage. You should go see a counselor to try and fix yourself.” > > She has denied being depressed or unhappy in the past. “Our marriage is in serious jeopardy, and we both need to go to counselling to see if we can work on it. I’m ready to throw in the towel - you need to understand that this is a last-ditch effort.” I’m not getting the impression that your wife understands how unhappy you are with the state of your marriage, and that you’re this \>\< close to ending it. I’m sympathetic to you, that your wife doesn’t seem to be a good match for you and also doesn’t seem at all interested in making any changes or doing anything to be a better partner. You can’t change other people, though - all you can do is change your response to them. If you are just too incompatible, ending the marriage amicably would be a lot better overall for everyone instead of damaging affairs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-having-an-affair-and-more/679867.md?page=12)