# I'm in UK; friend in US owes me substantial sum of money. WWYD? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 16, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239 "2011-07-16T13:37:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/41 "2011-07-18T19:45:08Z")
First of all, you probably cannot do the Judge Judy route because you’re not a US citizen. I’ve never seen a case where one of the parties lived in another country. The application asks for your city and state. Not even room for a UK address. Secondly, the limitation for her court is $5000, so you’d have to agree to eat the other $5000 right off the bat. However, if he loses, the show pays his judgment. However, what would motivate him to show up and admit to the world that he’s a loser? He’s already successfully stiffed you for the money, so he’s out nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/42 "2011-07-18T19:54:38Z")
It might not hurt, though, to see if you can get a demand letter written by a U.S attorney. If he gets an envelope with fancy law firm letterhead and his name on it saying he has only until some specified date to start making payment arrangements, he might just go: “Oh… Oh, shit! He’s serious about the 10k!” A cross-jurisdictional suit will cost you way more in legal fees than any pay out, so you wouldn’t actually be able to follow-up, but he’ll know you aren’t kidding anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/43 "2011-07-18T20:00:55Z")
> [@Scougs](#): > > \ > Another route I have suggested to him (which he has blatantly ignored) is that he, quite simply, borrows the money from somewhere else, notably his girlfriend. She wasn’t on the scene when all this transpired, but they’ve now been an item for over two years, and although they don’t live together she has declared her undying love for him on his Facebook wall. She is apparently in the $150K per year earning bracket (which he told me one evening with just a little bit too much glee, if you ask me). Is it unreasonable of me to push this angle further?\ Don’t ask HIM to ask his girlfriend for the money - ask his girlfriend. You probably still won’t get the money, but that has the potential to make his life very uncomfortable, which is about all the satisfaction you’re likely to get at this point. If I were you, I think I’d pursue getting in touch with a lawyer in Florida and seeing if you have any chance of getting the money back, and after a consultation, maybe then it’s time to drop it if the lawyer says you don’t have a good case, or you’ll pay more money to see part of your money again (and, as you’ve said, if he doesn’t have it, you won’t get it). You are okay with losing this “friendship,” right? ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/44 "2011-07-18T20:07:56Z")
These guys are a Florida law firm that take on collections, and their fees and costs are outlined very clearly. [http://www.sprechmanlaw.com/form.htm](http://www.sprechmanlaw.com/form.htm) Don’t get bogged down with the drama. Fill out their form and see what they say. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/45 "2011-07-18T20:09:24Z")
It seems to me that the best advice for the OP is: Talk to a Florida lawyer. Do NOT seek advice on an Internet message board. For the second best advice I’ve seen here, I like pursuing the TV judge route. The advantage to this is that Non-Loan-Paying Friend won’t have to pay you if you win, the show’s production company pays the judgment. And the other choice is to write it all off as a bad debt. ETA on simulpost: **LurkerInNJ** has a good idea for the law firm. Give that a shot, and let us know what they say. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/46 "2011-07-18T22:17:23Z")
Second the Letter of Demand. First, send an email explaining that you need the money immediately, in which you remind him of the details of the loan (so he can confirm these details in his reply). When he refuses, explain that you have no other recourse but to get legal on his ass (stay civil, but feel free to CC the girlfriend here – wonder how much he’s ‘borrowed’ from her). When he tries to weasel out of it, follow up with the letter via a US lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/47 "2011-07-19T02:11:03Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > First of all, you probably cannot do the Judge Judy route because you’re not a US citizen. I’ve never seen a case where one of the parties lived in another country. The application asks for your city and state. Not even room for a UK address. > > Secondly, the limitation for her court is $5000, so you’d have to agree to eat the other $5000 right off the bat. However, if he loses, the show pays his judgment. However, what would motivate him to show up and admit to the world that he’s a loser? He’s already successfully stiffed you for the money, so he’s out nothing. Really? I have seen several Judge Judy shows where the Defendant is from the UK - at one point on one show, Judge Judy even made a comment about “sorry, but in this country…” to explain why she could not do more for that person. I think there was someone from Australia on another show as well. Many of these “losers” show up to get the daily fee for being on the show - so even if they lose and the Plaintiff gets the full $5,000 - the Defendant still gets some money for showing up. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/48 "2011-07-19T02:42:34Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Really? I have seen several Judge Judy shows where the Defendant is from the UK - at one point on one show, Judge Judy even made a comment about “sorry, but in this country…” to explain why she could not do more for that person. I think there was someone from Australia on another show as well. > > Many of these “losers” show up to get the daily fee for being on the show - so even if they lose and the Plaintiff gets the full $5,000 - the Defendant still gets some money for showing up. I agree with this. He’ll get some money for showing up, plus the debt will be gone. Sure, he’s never planning on repaying, but this way he won’t get sued in civil court and maybe somewhere in the back of his sociopathic brain, he feels a bit guilty about dicking over his former dicking partner. Maybe the OP could present this as doing her one last favor. “I know you can’t pay me right now, so just go on this show with me, your friend, and you’ll save $10,000!” Tell him it will be a lot of fun, then whip out your stack of emails and let Judy rip him a new one. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/49 "2011-07-19T02:57:23Z")
> [@Scougs](#): > > For those that haven’t read the whole thread, I feel I must stress yet again that I 100% believed that this was a short-term loan until he got his Divorce settlement. This was not a sum of money he was going to struggle to pay back. Imagine if you had a friend who had, for example, just inherited their Father’s house, but couldn’t access the funds until the house was sold and all the paperwork was sorted. They are absolutely, definitely coming into a sum of money and just need short term help, or their current rent arrears would mean eviction. Would you still apply the “Don’t lend money you can’t afford to lose” adage, or would you help them out? Yes, I honestly would. I work too damn hard for my money to throw it down a black hole (I get enough of that by paying taxes). I wouldn’t loan it to begin with - it’d be a gift and that’s all. And I wouldn’t gift it unless I couldn’t spare the cash. Don’t beat yourself up, hon. Your heart was in the right place. He’s a dick. You’re a good person that tried to help someone you thought was a friend and you got screwed. GET HIM!!! Go all Braveheart on his ass!! Or let Judge Judy do it for you. I think this is actually a pretty good idea - definitely worth looking into; the worst thing they can do is say no. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/50 "2011-07-19T19:51:43Z")
Since the OP is in the UK, and doesn’t have access to our wonderful television, here is a list of “judge shows” that currently air in the U.S., in case Judge Judy turns her down or fails to respond: Judge Mathis The People’s Court Judge Joe Brown Judge Alex Judge Jeanine Pirro Swift Justice with Nancy Grace (this is a last resort; Nancy is repulsive but her show’s money is still good) I mean, seven shows! One has got to be interested. ---
**Author:** ![SeamusMcCool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SeamusMcCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeamusMcCool)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/51 "2011-07-19T20:10:13Z")
Actually, Yara has some good points and advice that Scougs could have used 3 years ago. I know we all want to be nice and supportive, but I could have seen these problems miles away before it even started. Anyways, Scougs, the facts of the matter are that legal costs, if legal action is even available to you (statue of limitations, jurisdiction issues etc.), will likely be at least as much as he owes you - 10K USD. The best case scenario is you pay 10K to get 10K and you’re still 10K in the hole and all you’ve accomplished is the personal satisfaction of forcing your friend to pay. Try to work out a monthly payment plan, but prepare for the possibility of writing off the 10K. He actually owes you more than 10K as he should also be on the hook for the mortgage interest rate on that amount. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/52 "2011-07-19T20:10:27Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > This guy is what we here in the south would call a “winner winner chicken dinner.” The meaning of the phrase “winner winner chicken dinner” has nothing to do with the context that you used it. Go check your colloquialism encyclopedia. WRT to the OP, RandRover has offered the best advice. Spending money to sue him is not a good money forward investment. Just keep the relationship going and continue to remind him of his debt to you. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/53 "2011-07-19T20:48:42Z")
Any money you spend on a US lawyer is likely to be money lost. Investing in chasing a near indigent person who really doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the debt to pay you back is not likely to have a profitable outcome. There’s nothing to really attach. You made a serious mistake that many other people in your circumstance have made. Possibly one day he’ll be flush, but the likelihood of that is minuscule. The money is gone. You need to accept that and move on. Keep in touch with him, but do not expect anything. If you get any back it’s a gift from god. You need to put this scenario in a box, store it on the shelf, count it as a life lesson and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/54 "2011-07-19T21:54:31Z")
It’s worth noting that legal fees don’t work the same way in the US as in the UK; the loser doesn’t pay the winner’s legal fees except in limited circumstances, none of which apply here. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/55 "2011-07-20T04:27:14Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The meaning of the phrase “winner winner chicken dinner” has nothing to do with the context that you used it. Go check your colloquialism encyclopedia. Newsflash: the meanings of words and phrases change over time (shocking but true!). I’m aware of the origins of the term. It doesn’t change how the phrase is used where I live. I sure hope that’s ok with you. Oh wait a minute … no I don’t. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Scougs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scougs/32/3158_2.png) [@Scougs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scougs)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/56 "2011-07-22T15:28:16Z")
Thank you all for the advice. As I have already said a couple of times, it really has helped to sort out my thinking. Ultimately, I think **Randrover** has it right. I should never have loaned him the money in the first place. I knew that already, and I am appreciative of the good folks at the Dope being (largely) sympathetic to my poor judgment in that regard. There is no point in paying a lawyer. This might make sense if he had the money and was denying it was a loan or refusing to pay, but given that he acknowledges he is badly in the wrong but simply doesn’t have the cash, it won’t make the money appear out of thin air. There is no point in doing anything to exact any sort of revenge, like adverts in the paper or tip-offs to his girlfriend. This would only ensure that I wouldn’t get the money ever, even if he somehow suddenly developed the means to pay it back. He would just never speak to me again. It might briefly feel good, but wouldn’t do my bank account any benefit. The Judge Judy approach still intrigues me, and I may just see what he thinks of it. It would be a fair bit of (initial) expense, hassle and time off work on my part, and I would have to hope against hope I don’t know anyone who watches the show. But it would certainly be an experience, and I might come out of it with at least some of the cash back. So right now, after all your wonderful advice, I’m actually going to do nothing. Just keep up the email friendship we have, chat away about music, football and everything else, and hope against hope that one day I’ll get some cash back. Cheers, guys. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/57 "2011-07-29T00:25:27Z")
He can’t ask his girlfriend for it because he already borrowed, from her, on some other pretext. Are you beginning to get the picture yet? No one likes to think they’ve been played. But you have been played, by someone posing as a friend. I would bet my house this is not the first time he’s done it either. Freelance writer with thin prospects for work. No steady source of income, lives in another country, only his word that he’s soon ‘coming into funds’. Too many red flags to count. But you lent him $10,000. I hope he was good in bed, cause that’s one expensive lay. By the way, ‘I’m coming into a large windfall, just need money to tide me over, I’ll pay you right back’ is singularly _ **the** _ oldest story scammers use. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/58 "2011-07-29T00:59:49Z")
> [@Scougs](#): > > So right now, after all your wonderful advice, I’m actually going to do nothing. Just keep up the email friendship we have, chat away about music, football and everything else, and hope against hope that one day I’ll get some cash back. Has it crossed your mind that since he lied to get the money from you in the first place that he is probably lying about not having the money to pay you? Or that if you don’t file, the statute of limitations will pass and he won’t owe you any money? Or that if you got a judgment, he would have to disclose his assets and that you would have a leg to stand on and a shot at getting some cash back? E-mail friendship??? Ask yourself why you are wasting your time on such a person. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239/59 "2011-07-29T04:47:39Z")
Why exactly can’t you ask him to start paying it back in small amounts? Or, if I’ve missed that bit, what excuse did he give for not being able to pack back even that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-in-uk-friend-in-us-owes-me-substantial-sum-of-money-wwyd/589239.md?page=2)