# I'm liberal, NOT stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436 "2002-08-11T22:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/21 "2002-08-12T03:57:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bio-brat \* > \*\*Hey I like how we have **Count Trari de Reeson** calling Liberals stupid in a thread which specifically asking not to, directly followed by **grendel72** ’s assertion that Conservatives are mean. \*\* I’m sure thre are conservatives who aren’t mean spirited, I’ve never met any of them. The conservatives I have personal experience with, while they are nowhere near as bad as Ann Coulter, are the type that Barry Goldwater (a decent human being, despite being a conservative) railed against in his later years. The existence of conservative ideology is too important to allow it to be represented only by vicious, hateful people. Look at the scare tactics Gore used in the last election, it is shameful that he could try to scare us with the spectre of the Christian Coalition. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/22 "2002-08-12T04:11:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bio-brat \* > \*\ ***pldennison** I don’t believe you. “Evil” is such a Bush-ism that most Liberals won’t touch it with a ten foot pole. \*\* Oh, I wish I could care whether you believe me or not, but I don’t, because I happen to know that it’s true. (See, that’s where a lot of people of all political persuasions go wrong; reality exists independently of what you believe about it.) Do a search for an old Great Debates thread that was titled, “Why Are Conservatives So Evil?” or somesuch. I believe it was started by Stoid, and I believe that if you ask her, she will tell you that, not only are conservatives themselves evil, conservatism is evil by its nature. Search for anything in GD by rjung, as well. Or ElvisL1ves. Don’t believe me, believe their own words. ---
**Author:** ![WV\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@WV\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WV_Woman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/23 "2002-08-12T04:15:19Z")
**Who is more destructive to this country: The Christian Right, or NOW?** You _are_ naive if you don’t know the answer to this one. Hint: ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/24 "2002-08-12T04:16:09Z")
I dunno, \*\*gobear/b]. I think you’re using a pretty boad brush to paint with there. I have always been labeled a liberal because of SOME of my opinions. I think I’m pretty conservative for a so-called liberal. I think a great many social problems could be alleviated considerably with education, and someone’s going to have to foot the bill for that. I think our tax dollars could be better-applied toward that end. I think there’s a little bit too much government involvement in many aspects of our society, and a great deal too little in others. I think the First Amendment is horribly abused - and I think the Second Amendment is, too. Cracking wise along the lines of, "If only we could get social conditions right – eliminate poverty, teach anger management, restore the ozone, arrest John Ashcroft – everyone would be holding hands smiley-faced, rocking back and forth to “We Shall Overcome” is not productive to the conservative side of the argument. You only have to read it once to catch the smarmy, condescending tone. A statement like that MAKES conservatives look hard-hearted and mean. If you’re going to make a generalized statement like that, you should certainly expect rebuttal - a generalized statement BEGS for it. ---
**Author:** ![WV\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@WV\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WV_Woman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/25 "2002-08-12T04:17:08Z")
Got cut off before I could give you a hint. _drumroll_ 35 million, sucked down a sink for the past 30 years. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/26 "2002-08-12T04:18:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Actually I stand by my statement, and I especially endorse this passage from Krauthammer’s essay: > > ## quote: > > Liberals tend to be nice, and they believe – here is where they go stupid – that most everybody else is nice too. Deep down, that is. Sure, you’ve got your multiple felon and your occasional war criminal, but they’re undoubtedly depraved 'cause they’re deprived. If only we could get social conditions right – eliminate poverty, teach anger management, restore the ozone, arrest John Ashcroft – everyone would be holding hands smiley-faced, rocking back and forth to “We Shall Overcome.” > > * * * > > On of the weaknesses of the liberal viewpoint is its inability to recognize the existence of true evil. There is no act so depraved, no criminal so vile, that some liberals will not defend it and/or blame it on someone else. Witness Susan Sontag, as well as some posters here, whose first impulse after 9/11 was to blame America for inciting bin Laden’s attack. \*\* Wow. Generalize much, **gobear**? I am most definitely a “liberal” in my political leanings and I happen to agree with absolutely _none_ of the crap espoused in that gibberish above. Let me ask you a question. What would you say if I started a sentence with, “Gay men tend to _be_ (fill in the blank) and they _believe_ (fill in the blank)…” ? Can you imagine _any_ condition, opinion or practice that _all_ gay men either are or believe?? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/27 "2002-08-12T04:22:20Z")
And then, **bio-brat** , there is stuff like this. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grendel72 \* > **I’m sure thre are conservatives who aren’t mean spirited, I’ve never met any of them.** **pldennison** is correct, and I remember much of the hateful filth spewed by those individuals quite well. Do the Searches. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/28 "2002-08-12T04:28:19Z")
Hell, I MARRIED a dyed-in-the-wool conservative. And he’s the nicest guy I ever knew. He tolerates his wife’s comparatively radical viewpoints quite admirably, and vice-versa. There is no “debate” here - this entire thread is just argument for the sake of argument, and no one’s gonna learn anything new. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/29 "2002-08-12T04:32:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WV\_Woman \* > \*\*Got cut off before I could give you a hint. > > _drumroll_ > > 35 million, sucked down a sink for the past 30 years. > > Duh. \*\* Well gee, **WV\_Woman** , I don’t think too many people on this Board would honestly call me “naive”, but you’re just going to have to enlighten little ol’ me and tell me what you’re saying here. What is it that you _are_ saying here, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/30 "2002-08-12T04:34:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Count Trari de Reeson \* > \*\*I think the whole Churchil quote is “At 19 if you are not a liberal you have no heart, at 30 if you are not a conservative you have no brain”. It is as true today as it was when he said it. \*\* Cite? Smells like an UL. (Many have said something like that; I’m just not sure that Churchill is the original author). [http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5952/unquote.html](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5952/unquote.html) Personally, I think lefties are smarter than righties, at least in the US. One manifestation might be the 2 sides propensity to sort through empirical complexity as opposed to rushing to a predictable and often tribal judgement. But that’s my WAG & HO. YMMV. Ethically, I suspect that righties weigh the welfare of the underdog less than lefties. I sometimes wonder whether lefties are more utilitarian while righties are more concerned with hewing to certain standards of behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/31 "2002-08-12T04:39:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WV\_Woman \* > \*\*Got cut off before I could give you a hint. > > _drumroll_ > > 35 million, sucked down a sink for the past 30 years. > > Duh. \*\* Along with your brain, apparently. :rolleyes: Fuck the fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/32 "2002-08-12T05:03:34Z")
Oh, by the way, “liberalism” is defined differently in the UK and the US; it is highly unlikely that Churchill would have set it opposed to conservatism. (Alt Hist: Possible alternative: Socialist; More probable alternative: Marxist) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > I’m tired of being accused of being a godless commie, a socialist dupe, an idiot, someone who wants something for nothing. > > I just wish life were fair. Is that so wrong? Is it bad to be a do-gooder, or a bleeding heart? **Guin** your problems are over. (Or this one is anyway). If somebody implies that your liberal ideas are impractical, just point to Europe in general and Sweden in particular. If they mumble about high unemployment the proper response is, “Not in Sweden”. In general, US liberal policy prescriptions are demonstrably workable: we need only point to the experiences abroad. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/33 "2002-08-12T05:03:44Z")
Surely you’ve read the first part of the editorial which “neatly epitomizes” your position **gobear**. You know, the part that goes like this: > [@](#): > > To understand the workings of American politics, you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil. > > For the first side of this equation, I need no sources. As a conservative, I can confidently attest that whatever else my colleagues might disagree about – Bosnia, John McCain, precisely how many orphans we’re prepared to throw into the snow so the rich can have their tax cuts – we all agree that liberals are stupid As for this piece of unadulterated bullshit > [@](#): > > On of the weaknesses of the liberal viewpoint is its inability to recognize the existence of true evil. What the fuck hole are you living in? I don’t assume that all Conservative are Ann Coulter, why would you assume all Liberals are Susan Sontag? Moreover, I don’t assume that all Conservative that post here are **december** any more than all Liberals are **Stoid**. **pldennison** I stand corrected. You are right. I forgot about that thread. In general I try to avoid all such idiocy, as I can’t see it being a constructive discussion in any way shape or form. Perhaps I should have stated that I don’t know any liberals IRL who would refer to Conservatives as evil. On this board, there seems to be several in the extreme. **WV\_Woman** what the fuck are you talking about? If you honestly believe that the Christian Right is less destructive than NOW, I would like to come visit your cave. What color is the sky in your world? Is it pretty there? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/34 "2002-08-12T05:12:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bio-brat \* > \*\*WV\_Woman what the fuck are you talking about? If you honestly believe that the Christian Right is less destructive than NOW, I would like to come visit your cave. What color is the sky in your world? Is it pretty there? \*\* This reminds me of something I said once: If one lives in a cave, they can paint the sky whatever colour they wish. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Harvey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@Max\_Harvey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Harvey)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/35 "2002-08-12T05:14:53Z")
It’s amazing how both liberals and conservatives paint the other side as stupid/evil/whatever, while turning a blind eye to the _exact same behavior_ on their own side. Michael Moore and Ann Coulter are perfect examples. I’m thinking that the political climate in the US may never shift away from the name-calling, Mets-vs-Yankees childishness. Maybe if we drop the obsolete liberal -\> conservative “x-axis” in favor of the authoritarian -\> libertarian “y-axis”. Liberals and neo-cons just might realize that they’re in the same leaking boat. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/36 "2002-08-12T05:19:20Z")
Liberals…want to spend money on people. Conservatives…Want to spend monedy on people too. But pass it through business hands first. The people get what’s left. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/37 "2002-08-12T06:11:58Z")
flowbark, You’re correct, [Churchill never said that.](http://www.winstonchurchill.org/bonmots2.htm) ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/38 "2002-08-12T06:21:00Z")
flowbark, You’re correct, [Churchill never said that.](http://www.winstonchurchill.org/bonmots2.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/39 "2002-08-12T06:36:58Z")
> [@](#): > > War is not simply a mistake, a failure to communicate. **There is radical evil in the world, which is why there are just wars.** And this is a just war. Even if it has been consistently bungled, the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade being only one of many examples. Stop the genocide. Return all refugees to their homes. Worthy goals. But how is any of this conceivably going to happen unless the Milosevic regime is overthrown? Emphasis added. The preceding passage on evil was written by [Susan Sontag](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Kosovo/Story/0,2763,207233,00.html). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/40 "2002-08-12T06:57:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\*What is it that you _are_ saying here, exactly? \*\* She is talking about abortion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436.md?page=3)