# I'm liberal, NOT stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436 "2002-08-11T22:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/61 "2002-08-12T17:07:41Z")
> [@](#): > > A. There’s not much point in only talking to people you agree with. > b. You’re not supposed to talk about that little item–it will bring the mods down on you. And anyway, I don’t believe in it. Certainly, do as you wish; I just feel bad that my posts seem to turn a calm and cogent poster into a disingenuous maniac. And there’s plenty of people who will still disagree with you without me. **Sauron** , cmon, ya can’t play dumb with me at this late date. Find for me the “All conservatives are evil,” stawman, or pipe down. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/62 "2002-08-12T17:12:42Z")
Eh, fine, take “ElvisL1ves” off the list and replace with “elucidator.” Doesn’t affect me either way. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/63 "2002-08-12T17:21:59Z")
**Ringo** oh thank you ever so much for the creditability! Unfortunately, there is no satire in my post. So I’ll try to get that credibility back to you before you tomorrow. **Sgt. J** quite frankly, I had no idea what **WV\_Woman** was talking about, and I’m going to guess that neither did you until enlightened by **Dr Lao**. WV\_Woman has a very bad habit of entering a thread, dropping an idiotic comment (i.e. Canadians aren’t terribly bright) and leaving, never to be seen again that thread. If I’d known that she was talking about abortion, I wouldn’t have been as dismissive. In fact, I would have told her that NOW doesn’t perform abortions, and they didn’t make them legal. So despite the fact that NOW fights to keep them legal, there is no reason to blame the Organization for 35 Million abortions. However, since I didn’t know what the fuck she was talking about, despite a Google search, I assumed she was talking about money. So now you may feel free to be a good boy and STFU. **Ace0spades** you’re not helping. In fact, it is people like you who give people like me a bad name. Extreme ideology and name calling makes anyone who does it look foolish. However, it looks especially bad on someone who claims to be one of the “loving, caring, compassionate” Liberals. So knock it off! I happen to like the vast majority of Conservatives who post here, and I think it’s quite healthy reassess ones stance by looking at the other side of the argument. Feel free to disagree with me, all I’m asking is not be called stupid or naive. Is that too much? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/64 "2002-08-12T17:24:02Z")
[Here’s](http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/708028/posts) a cite, right from the Freepers, for Genevieve Wood of the Family Research Council blaming corporate immorality on Willy’s willy, coincidentally on the last episode of “Politically Incorrect”\> ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/65 "2002-08-12T17:25:58Z")
**Sgt J** , what does this have to do with anything? I happen to think **WV\_Woman** is an ignorant, self-righteous blowhard. That has nothing to do with her political views-it has to do with HER. Sheesh! Hey! Some of my best friends are conservative!!! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/66 "2002-08-12T17:30:18Z")
**Bio-brat** , you’re falling for the strawman. Shame on you! I haven’t called the conservative posters here Evil, nor do I have much of an extreme ideology. I’m referring to the trending of the conservative mindset. But I agree that no-one here should be judged “Naive” or “Evil,” on solely the basis of their stated ideology. This is simply a poor application of stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/67 "2002-08-12T17:47:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bio-brat \* > **So despite the fact that NOW fights to keep them legal, there is no reason to blame the Organization for 35 Million abortions. However, since I didn’t know what the fuck she was talking about, despite a Google search, I assumed she was talking about money.** Is _that_ what she was talking about? She never returned to explain it, and I must confess, I had no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/68 "2002-08-12T17:52:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*On of the weaknesses of the liberal viewpoint is its inability to recognize the existence of true evil. There is no act so depraved, no criminal so vile, that some liberals will not defend it and/or blame it on someone else. Witness Susan Sontag, as well as some posters here, whose first impulse after 9/11 was to blame America for inciting bin Laden’s attack. \*\* Uh, Susan Sontag is not all “liberals.” Frankly, the existence of evil factors heavily into my beliefs as lefty (I hesitate to use the word “liberal,” with has different connotations in Canada). I am an existentialist. I believe in free will. Human beings have the power to choose, and I am a firm believer that the best choice is the most compassionate one. > [@](#): > > **But the assumption of unquestioned virtue by some liberals (WE know what is best for you, so do as we say) is the first step to tyranny. When one’s political philosophy centers on using government as a tool, it 's only a whisper away from using government as a club.** I do not assume unquestioned virtue. That’s one reason I’m happy for the vote and for democracy. What I do question is the assumed virtue of increasingly powerful corporations – corporations now able to influence government decisions through lobbying and campaign contributions, and able to exploit the greater freedom they enjoy in an increasingly unregulated economy. How far does that power have to go before we are “only a whisper away” from the corporation as club? We have no vote for a nation’s CEO’s, so our only defence, as citizens, is the government. I’m glad **bio-brat** started this thread. My views were formed by years of poverty and prejudice lived. They are not the product of ivory-tower naïveté. The knowledge I’ve gleaned from my university courses has developed my perspective, nuanced it, better directed it, but that perspective is founded on my life’s experiences. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/69 "2002-08-12T18:24:49Z")
What do you mean you didn’t understand? You must be a bleeding heart Liberal **Anthracite**! So you need to STFU\*. Apparently that’s what she was talking about. Actually, she herself never came back to explain, but **Dr Lao** very generously enlightened us. \*I think this means Shut the fuck up, but I’m not really sure. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/70 "2002-08-12T19:14:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*But the assumption of unquestioned virtue by some liberals (WE know what is best for you, so do as we say) is the first step to tyranny. When one’s political philosophy centers on using government as a tool, it 's only a whisper away from using government as a club. \*\* Gosh, this sounds familiar… I hope you’re not saying that this statement applies only to some _liberals_. Sounds a bit like last night’s news to me. 😉 Seriously, I’d say that your argument applies to both sides of the coin, not just liberals. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/71 "2002-08-12T19:19:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by gobear > On of the weaknesses of the liberal viewpoint is its inability to recognize the existence of true evil. There is no act so depraved, no criminal so vile, that some liberals will not defend it and/or blame it on someone else. Witness Susan Sontag, **as well as some posters here** , whose first impulse after 9/11 was to blame America for inciting bin Laden’s attack. **gobear** It’s useless to ask you to back that up, since the “late unpleasantness”, but that particular slander I’ve bolded for you has been discussed and debunked vociferously in the past. It ain’t true. If you know it ain’t true, you’re a damned liar, and you’re also hurting your case that it’s the dam’ lib’rals who ain’t got no morals. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/72 "2002-08-12T19:29:53Z")
> [@](#): > > It ain’t true. If you know it ain’t true, you’re a damned liar, and you’re also hurting your case that it’s the dam’ lib’rals who ain’t got no morals. Oh, but it is true. Several posters, including the late **Chas E** and **Curious George** ,as well as one or two still-extant posters, blamed America for instigating 9/11. I I’m not a “damned liar”; you just have a short memory. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/73 "2002-08-12T19:36:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*It would seem to me that sensible liberals and conservatives have the same goals in mind; to create a society that generates the greatest good for the greatest number. I can respect a disagreement over the methods used to achieve this goal–liberals believe in the redistribution of wealth, whereas conservatives believe that the free market, untouched by government interference, will generate wealth and jobs for society overall. \*\* It might seem so, but sensible conservatives can’t get anywhere without kissing the asses of the reactionary bigots who run the Republican party. **Bob Jones University** , that’s all I have to say. Bush has _never_ apologised for speaking there, and his excuse (which is far different than an apology) was that it is a respected conservative institution but that he disagrees with some of their policies. Fuck policies, they have a dormitory named after a [Grand Dragon](http://www.nobojo.com/klan.html) of the KKK. How charming, don’t you just _love_ that southern hospitality. This is _far_ from the only case of supposedly mainstream conservatives kissing up to bigots. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt.J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sgt.J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sgt.J)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/74 "2002-08-12T19:43:57Z")
You would have lost that bet **bio-brat** because I knew exactly what she was talking about. I’ve heard the “sucked down a sink” phrase countless times in abortion debates (as apparently has **VW Woman**.) I think it’s a favorite of the “Dr. Laura Schleshwhateverhernameis” woman, because I’ve heard her use it, and I’ve only caught the show a few times (she sounded like a bitch, so I switched it). Fine, you didn’t know what she was talking about. You still said: > [@](#): > > If you honestly believe that the Christian Right is less destructive than NOW, I would like to come visit your cave. What color is the sky in your world? Is it pretty there? So it’s ok to say that supporting the Christian Right makes you a cave dweller out of touch with reality, but it’s not ok to be condescending to Liberals or say they’re naive? You can’t see a little irony in that? It’s **your** thread after all. No offence **Guin** , I just thought it was funny to see that response to a conservative idea in a thread about not being “mean” to liberals. I understand now that you were (more so) deriding the poster than the ideology with the slam. Oh, and why do you assume that I’m a “He” because I’m a Sergeant? There are thousands of Female NCO’s in the military. Not a very liberal assumption, I might add. It’s actually quite sexist. And yes, STFU means, “Shut the fuck up”, not because you’re a liberal (I take a “liberal” stand on many issues, even though I would consider myself a conservative leaning independent), because you were being hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/75 "2002-08-12T20:26:24Z")
**grendel** , how is that qualitatively different from Democrats having to court Jesse “Far Past The Point Of Any Relevancy” Jackson every election, or Hillary Clinton having to meet with Al “Tawana Told The Truth” Sharpton in order to consolidate support for her Senate run in New York? Both parties have to appease their extremists, unfortunately. I’d be happy if both parties told them to take a hike. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/76 "2002-08-12T20:27:18Z")
**Sgt. J** , I didn’t bet you, I don’t make bets. You can give me those tokens but I KNOW there’re money! You can’t fool me! I call you a he because Mr. brat is a GySgt. and a he. It’s the same reason I figure all cats are shes and all dogs are hes (although I’m pretty sure none of this isn’t accurate). My comment to **WV\_Woman** goes well beyond what she’s said in this thread. She comes in, drops a non sequitur and leaves. It’s bullshit, and I am pretty sure she does live in a cave. (As an aside: You’re unintentionally cracking me up. Her name is WV\_Woman- WV as in West Virginia/ not VW as in Volkswagen) ---
**Author:** ![Sgt.J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sgt.J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sgt.J)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/77 "2002-08-12T20:49:32Z")
Damm dyslexia!!! And I **am** a he, I was just being a dick. Amusing myself and all. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/78 "2002-08-12T20:55:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bio-brat \* > \*\*Apparently that’s what she was talking about. Actually, she herself never came back to explain, but **Dr Lao** very generously enlightened us. \*\* I was assuming of course. I am not certain, but what I know of **WV\_Woman** and what I know of Christian Right/Fundy political rhetoric, it seems likely. It doesn’t surprise me that many card-carrying conservatives would be confused by her statement. I’m sure if **WV\_Woman** dropped that line in her own peer group/church everyone would know what she was talking about. So, I don’t think the cave analogy is far off. The Christian Right seems out of touch on a lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/79 "2002-08-12T23:23:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Lao \* > \*\*I was assuming of course. I am not certain, but what I know of **WV\_Woman** and what I know of Christian Right/Fundy political rhetoric, it seems likely. It doesn’t surprise me that many card-carrying conservatives would be confused by her statement. I’m sure if **WV\_Woman** dropped that line in her own peer group/church everyone would know what she was talking about. So, I don’t think the cave analogy is far off. The Christian Right seems out of touch on a lot of things. \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Anthracite_ > \*\*Well gee, WV\_Woman, I don’t think too many people on this Board would honestly call me “naive”, but you’re just going to have to enlighten little ol’ me and tell me what you’re saying here. > > What is it that you are saying here, exactly?\*\* As a former Christian Rightist/Fundie myself, I recognized the line by **WV\_Woman** immediately, having heard it many times in various manifestations. In fact, I just figured that **Anthracite** was posing a rhetorical question in the above quote, and that it was somehow obvious that **WV\_Woman** was talking about abortion. Well, I suppose I’m lending more support to the cave analogy myself. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/80 "2002-08-12T23:46:38Z")
I figured it out because she’s gone on about it before, usually resorting to crude terms just to provoke. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436.md?page=5)