# I'm liberal, NOT stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436 "2002-08-11T22:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/81 "2002-08-12T23:56:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lel \* > **In fact, I just figured that Anthracite was posing a rhetorical question in the above quote, and that it was somehow obvious that WV\_Woman was talking about abortion.** Nope, I honestly had no idea what she was talking about. In fact, I thought…ugh, this is embarassing. I thought she was implying NOW had had 35 million members since it was formed, and that somehow this was a tragedy… :o ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/82 "2002-08-13T00:14:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > \*\ ***grendel** , how is that qualitatively different from Democrats having to court Jesse “Far Past The Point Of Any Relevancy” Jackson every election, or Hillary Clinton having to meet with Al “Tawana Told The Truth” Sharpton in order to consolidate support for her Senate run in New York? Both parties have to appease their extremists, unfortunately. I’d be happy if both parties told them to take a hike. \*\* Jackson and Sharpton never lynched anybody. They are far from perfect, but not anywhere near as far from it as the so-called conservatives are. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/83 "2002-08-13T00:16:54Z")
Also, the Democratic party hasn’t thrown any scraps to extremists on their own side in a _long_ time. When they do something to appease extremists, it is always the same bigots the Republicans are after- ie. the DOMA debacle. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/84 "2002-08-13T00:26:27Z")
Sharpton never lynched anybody? Maybe not, but he helped incite the riot at Freddy’s Fashion Mart in Harlem which led to the deaths of seven people and gunshot wounds for four others, encouraged people to attack news crews following the Bensonhurst trial, and singlehandedly attempted to destroy Stephen Pagones’ life by accusing him of raping Tawana Brawley. “Not as bad” my rear end. If anything, he’s worse, because he does this crap publicly and tries to downplay his complicity by accusing his opponents of racism. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/85 "2002-08-13T03:18:27Z")
**pldennison** , “liberals” have chosen to avoid any contact with Jackson and Sharpton. “Liberals” go out of their way to distance themselves from Jackson and Sharpton. “Conservatives” line up for miles around to speak at Bob Jones University. “Conservatives” have bigots like Pat Buchannon speak at conventions to “throw red meat to the crowd” (I believe that was the quote from the '92 Republican convention. Being a conservative isn’t inherently evil, but at this point in time there are _no_ conservative mouthpeices who haven’t at the very least shaken the devil’s hand. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/86 "2002-08-13T03:23:36Z")
**grendel** -shut up. You’re not helping. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/87 "2002-08-13T03:50:02Z")
**bio-brat** , I appreciate your openness in discussing your OP. While I had thought much to be satire as you decried the painting of your own thoughts with the opposition’s brush, you have declared nonesuch. So now we contemplate **bio-brat** ’s implication of opposition agendas: Without satire… > [@](#): > > I have seen good people go hungry. I’ve seen friends pulled over solely based on their race. I’ve seen good women and their children abandoned by their husbands have them only to work minimum wage jobs and require Government assistance while they get back on their feet. I’ve seen smart kids leave college for no other reason than lack of funds, and kids who stayed in college, but couldn’t afford food or books. I’ve seen people mired in hopelessness on a downward spiral. > > On the other hand, I’ve seen rich kids essentially buy their way through college, and seen these same types get jobs at their father’s business only to fuck around all day. I’ve seen protesters harass young women going to get legal abortions, and CEOs making millions of dollars while their employees get screwed. > > Who cost this country more: the welfare mother, or corporate welfare? Who is more corrupt: the welfare queen, or the CEO of WorldCom? Who is a bigger crook, the drug user or Ken Lay? Who is more destructive to this country: The Christian Right, or NOW? > [@](#): > > I have seen good people go hungry. Tell me where it ‘s high on you opposition’s agenda that people go hungry. Or where you’ve even seen that thought endorsed. You haven’t. > [@](#): > > I’ve seen friends pulled over solely based on their race. Well, point out to me where that can be described as a policy attributable to your political opposites > [@](#): > > I’ve seen good women and their children abandoned by their husbands have them only to work minimum wage jobs and require Government assistance while they get back on their feet. And this is a policy of Republicans? Wherein can I find a statement of that policy? > [@](#): > > . I’ve seen smart kids leave college for no other reason than lack of funds, and kids who stayed in college, but couldn’t afford food or books… Sorry, paid my own way w/o parental assistance – severe lack of sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/88 "2002-08-13T03:52:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* > Oh, but it is true. Several posters, including the late **Chas E** and **Curious George** ,as well as one or two still-extant posters, blamed America for instigating 9/11. I > > I’m not a “damned liar”; you just have a short memory. \*\* I read all those threads too, and, with all the respect I can force myself to muster for you, you badly misinterpreted what they said in your own bloodlust. But I can’t prove it either, and frankly, someone who could post the hateful slander you did earlier isn’t worth it anyway. Still waiting for **pldennison** to either support or retract his allegation about me. His sense of honor appears to be on the same level as yours, though. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/89 "2002-08-13T03:55:34Z")
No, dammnit, **I’m** a True Scotsman. . . ---
**Author:** ![lurkernomore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@lurkernomore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurkernomore)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/90 "2002-08-13T03:57:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grendel72 \* > \*\ ***pldennison** , “liberals” have chosen to avoid any contact with Jackson and Sharpton. “Liberals” go out of their way to distance themselves from Jackson and Sharpton. > \*\* Oh, really? [Hillary, Bill, and Al](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/07/09/sharpton/index.html) You can call me Al In her effort to line up political support, Hillary Clinton extends an olive branch, and a White House invite, to Rev. Al Sharpton. * * * By Keith Moore July 9, 1999 | The Rev. Al Sharpton and Hillary Rodham Clinton are an unlikely couple indeed. But as Clinton’s exploratory campaign for next year’s New York Senate race gets under way, the former boy preacher who carries heavy racial baggage – a pariah to some but a political prophet to others – could prove to be a pivotal force in the election. There is little doubt Sharpton will have some role in the campaign. Howard Wolfson, the exploratory committee spokesman, told Salon News, “If [Clinton] runs she will not be in the business of excluding people. We welcome the support of all New Yorkers.” Asked if Sharpton had been given an actual role in the campaign, Wolfson said simply, “We will cross that bridge when we come to it.” In reality, Clinton’s kowtowing began last month, when she invited the reverend to a White House reception for the World Series champion New York Yankees. [both NY Dem senators and Al](http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/WABC_030502_sharpton.html) The high powered meeting began early Tuesday afternoon, between Sharpton and at least three US congressmen and both senators from the state of New York. [Gore, Hillary, Schumer, et al and Al.](http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/alSHARPTON.htm) August 31, 2000 By Heather Mac Donald The Rev. Al Sharpton’s status with Washington’s Democratic elite just keeps on rising. Last Friday, he commanded an audience with Attorney General Janet Reno and White House aides to demand a federal monitor for the New York City Police Department. Mr. Sharpton has also demanded, and won, meetings with Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, Sen. Charles Schumer of New York and former presidential hopeful Bill Bradley. Last year he shared the stage with President Clinton So, \*\* Grendel, \*\*tell me which liberals are avoiding him? The conservatives have shaken the devil’s hand? Looks to me like the liberals have been kissing his ass. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/91 "2002-08-13T04:03:36Z")
Wow. I’m glad to see I’m not “inherently evil”. That’s raising the tone alright… ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/92 "2002-08-13T04:56:23Z")
Ok, **lurkernomore** , I was wrong. I was speaking of the impression I had, which was apparently wrong. I do wish there were more on both sides who would repudiate the extremists, and I wish the supposed political media in this country would admit that there are more than two points of view on any given issue. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/93 "2002-08-13T10:44:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*Still waiting for **pldennison** to either support or retract his allegation about me. His sense of honor appears to be on the same level as yours, though. \*\* Of course, I already posted: > [@](#): > > Eh, fine, take “ElvisL1ves” off the list and replace with “elucidator.” Doesn’t affect me either way. So now let’s decide whether you’re a liar or just a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/94 "2002-08-13T11:11:36Z")
Nor is it minty fresh. Let me take this opportunity to tell **Elvisl1ves** and **elucidator** that, while we may never agree on some issues, I find both sides of the political fence interesting. I think a world with just left or right would be a scary place. Much like the scales of justice, society is better when there is some balance and tension between the two sides. Anyway, I’m conservative on foreign policy, liberal on social issues, and a staunch libertarian when it comes to other things. But I believe in a social safety net, public education, and sufficient regulation so that the market economy which is essential for wealth creation is not turned into some kind of casino where only the house\* wins. I hate all of you. You’re all evil incarnate in my book (and naive). 😉 Seriously, there are too many smart people on this board to label folks as evil conservatives or naive liberals. No BS, I learn stuff here. I would hate to see this good thing devolve into partisan crap like television always does. \*insiders and executives ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/95 "2002-08-13T11:38:10Z")
ElvisL1ves > [@](#): > > \*\*Still waiting for pldennison to either support or retract his allegation about me. His sense of honor appears to be on the same level as yours, though. \*\* And I’m still waiting for you to retract the allegation you made about me that you got called on [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=69886&perpage=50&highlight=missile%20defense&pagenumber=1), a year ago. Dear Kettle, You’re black. Love, Pot ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/96 "2002-08-13T12:24:55Z")
You missed the best argument for a small missile defense system. Accidental launches. Murphy’s Law + Time + horizontal nuclear proliferation = guaranteed nuclear reprisal to an accidental launch over the long term. Why? Cuz, we ain’t got no way to shoot even one down now. Canadian Geese took us to Defcon 1. Not something I find sleep inducing. Obviously any large nuclear power can overcome the small defense. Fine. What happens when one MIRVed nuke gets away from the Russians? Poof!: no DC, Philly, NY, Boston, plus six to eight more cities along the eastern seaboard. I don’t think “sorry” is going to cut it. Those folks saying it can never work sort of sound like “if man could fly he’d have wings” types now. There was a [Spartan / Sprint system](http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/FP/projects/nucwcost/sprint.htm) years ago. The technology is not only possible, but it is old. Senator Kennedy killed the project. MAD concerns and all that won the day. Not a bad point, but a small system is easily overwhelmed, but not easily overwhelmed by one rogue missile. That is the real risk. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/97 "2002-08-13T12:37:14Z")
Interesting, Beagle. I have little doubt that the technology exists, or will eventually exist, to provide a defensive deterrent to an air-missile attack. There is rightly a question of whether the cost of implementing it, and continually upgrading it as others seek ways to override it, is worth it. Particularly when 20 people with box-cutters can kill 3,000 American civilians. I wasn’t wanting to revive the thread topic, however. I only wanted to point out that ElvisL1ves is ridiculously hypocritical. Let’s stay on-point. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/98 "2002-08-13T13:32:34Z")
> [@](#): > > I read all those threads too, and, with all the respect I can force myself to muster for you, you badly misinterpreted what they said in your own bloodlust. “bloodlust” as in wanting to see terrorism punished? Guilty. > [@](#): > > But I can’t prove it either, and frankly, someone who could post the hateful slander you did earlier isn’t worth it anyway. A. You have your terms confused. **Slander** is an an oral statement that is 1)known to be false and 2) demaes and damges another person’s reputation. **Libel** is a written false, defamatory statement. B. Criticizing the “America is always wrong” crowd, does not constitute libel. You are both a fool and a hypocrite. (That’s not libel either–it’s reportage.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/99 "2002-08-13T13:43:06Z")
**Milossarian** , I read the thread. If you’re comparing your dismissal of **ElvisL1ves** tactfully questions to **pldennison** ’s rude and lazy smear, the comparison doesn’t wash. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/100 "2002-08-13T13:45:40Z")
Don’t get too worried about it, gobear. Do a quick search back through GD for posts from ol’ Elvis containing the word “Canada.” That should give you a good idea of what he considers “honorable” behavior. (The last paragraph of [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1822592&highlight=Stone+AND+Canada#post1822592) post in particlar, and my post right after, are illuminating.) If that’s his standard, I’m absolutely thrilled not to live up to it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436.md?page=6)