# I'm liberal, NOT stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436 "2002-08-11T22:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/121 "2002-08-13T16:42:38Z")
Actually, **EvlisL1ves** , I suspect that to you, conservative is synonymous with wingnut. I defy you to find a conservative commentator who you could admire, even of you disagree with them. And, of course, you are too dense to have noticed the bit where I pointed out that I voted for Gore, although he, like his boss, who signed the contemptible Defense of Marriage Act, has no great sympathy for gays. While I have strong conservative beliefs, I won’t vote GOP until their candidates stop regarding gay people like diseased pariahs. And I won’t join the Log Cabin guys because I don’t like their sycophancy to people who treat them like dirt. . ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/122 "2002-08-13T16:45:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*Wring: > > Touche, and true. \*\* see - that’s what makes you the ‘good’ kind of conservative. ::d & R:: ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/123 "2002-08-13T16:53:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Go show your mother what a fine job she did teaching you about responsibility and integrity. Wow. Dragging someone’s mother into this is low, but to do that to **PLD** , who has written some intensely painful posts about his conflicted history with his parents, is beyond vile. I hope the mods chew your ass for this. > [@](#): > > So, I’d have had no quibble w/your assertion if it’d been “IMHO, the liberal viewpoint blah blah blah” but the flat out assertion is unsupportable, as you’ve noted here (you can’t question all liberals as to their viewpoint etc.). Well, _obviously_, its just my opinion. Geez, **Wring** , you’re a lot smarter than this. Come on, “One of the weaknesses of the liberal viewpoint is its inability to recognize the existence of true evil.” is totally opinion–I’m commenting on what I see as a flaw in the liberal point of view. I shouldn’t have to post big, red disclaimers–WARNING: THIS IS AN OPINION-- for an intelligent audience. You people ought to be able to tell the difference between a factual assertion and an opinion for yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/124 "2002-08-13T17:20:49Z")
**Scylla** , you say: > [@](#): > > Us conservatives get our share of wingnuts, too. But I prefer the conservative brand of nut, myself. I can deal with a selfish, self-motivated and intolerant person, and those people can change. Stupid, naive and self-righteous is usually a fatally self-perpetuating combination. Self-motivated and intolerant is fine feature in a CEO or a lawyer. Now we’re learning how terrible it is in an administration. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/125 "2002-08-13T17:29:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*I’ll go there: > > I think the liberal viewpoint attracts a disproportionate level of stupid and naive people, and even more of the self-righteous, self-congratulatory whiners whose lack of experience or reasoning ability nevertheless does precious little to thwart their earnest certainty that they have all the answers and know better. > > That’s pretty obvious. \*\* Oddly enough, I think that the Conservative viewpoint attracts a disproportionate level of stupid and naive people, and even more of the self-righteous, self-congratulatory whiners whose lack of experience or reasoning ability nevertheless does precious little to thwart their earnest certainty that they have all the answers and know better. That’s pretty obvious. I happen to prefer the Liberal wingnuts myself. The Conservative wingnuts blowup Federal buildings and shoot abortion doctors, where ours just burn down empty houses and release lab rats. I personally wouldn’t want to sit down to dinner with either of them. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/126 "2002-08-13T17:29:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace0Spades \* > **It’s obvious that conservatives think liberals are naive.** All conservatives, everywhere? Isn’t this that same broad brush that you are decrying on Page 3? Or is it only “evil” people like me that use sterotypes. I could also link to that filth you spewed about Ann Coulter, where you went after her based on her appearance (I believe you compared her unfavorably with a greyhound)? If judging someone and flaming them on their appearance is not sick hate, I don’t know what is. My question to liberals here is - how do you feel about judging someone based on their personal appearance - their looks, their height, their skin color? My conservative views say that is “evil”. Wouldn’t you agree? > [@](#): > > **California created their own energy problems!** They did. Just as we all create our own energy problems. You wanna debate energy with _me_? > [@](#): > > **It couldn’t be more obvious that they think liberals are morons if they paid for a conservative riot down in Florida to fix the last election – which they did, or if they cynically selected minority right-wing judges to pursue their agenda in the judicial branch, which they did, or if they stocked their convention full of black faces to put a fig leaf on their angry white male status, which they did.** All conservatives everywhere did this? There’s that broad brush again. > [@](#): > > **How else do they communicate that they think we’re morons? They’ve said, and you can look this up, that _they think the average voter won’t remember the Clinton impeachment._ I bet they think the same of the tax cut that gave themselves and their rich cronies.** The mysterious “they” again. Behold, the liberal **december**. > [@](#): > > **A careful examination of the record shows that the right wing is only looking out for themselves. Not only don’t they care about anyone else, they don’t care about any_thing_ else, but themselves, their power, and their money – that’s evil.** So anyone who identifies themselves as being in the “right wing” of politics is evil? Those are your words. > [@](#): > > **Why do you think Jim Jeffords switched? It’s obvious as the sun at noon.** So by a very short extension, Ben Nighthorse Campbell would be evil, since he switched to the Republican party? > [@](#): > > **The right wing is growing more evil, and the left wing is growing less naive.** There’s that “evil” word again. Does anyone here really doubt that conservatives or anyone who feels they are on the right wing, relative to liberals, are being called “evil” here? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/127 "2002-08-13T17:35:21Z")
**gobear** , not everyone reads everyone else’s self-indulgent posts. I have no idea about **pldennison** ’s personal history, nor do I care, under the circumstances. Nothing excuses his conduct here - or yours. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/128 "2002-08-13T17:36:45Z")
see, **gobear** this whole thing started when you claimed that you weren’t stereotyping ‘all liberals’, then of course, you went on to do exactly that (except of course for the named exclusions). “IMHO” see, it’s quick and easy to type and removes all doubt when you’re asserting something. It’s especially useful for when you’re asserting something unprovable. Then, you see, I’d only be able to ask/demand that you provide examples of why you’d believe that it’s a mainstream stance, vs. ‘some wing nuts on the fringes’. Both viewpoints have their fringe element. I do object the characterization that the liberal fringe element espouses the ‘liberal viewpoint’, just the same as I’d object to the characterization that the “conservative viewpoint” approves of murdering abortion doctors. ---
**Author:** ![Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/soul_brother_number_two/32/3515_2.png) [@Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soul_Brother_Number_Two)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/129 "2002-08-13T17:37:45Z")
I looked up ‘self-congratulatory’ in the American Heritage dictionary and there was a picture of Scylla right next to it. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/130 "2002-08-13T17:37:58Z")
**bio-brat** , I have a point to make to you. This thread has gone way out of control, and I don’t appreciate the continuous slurs that are being directed at conservatives in here, and by extention, myself. I don’t feel that this was the intent when you started this thread. I feel that you really intended to express frustration over being thought naive - that you are an intelligent, thoughtful individual who has come to the political and social views that you have through a process of careful consideration and reflection, and it is demeaning to you and your positions to be called naive. I agree wholeheartedly. You and others do not deserve to be called or referred to directly as “naive”, stupid, careless, or by other insults. Now, looking at what is going on in here - is this thread really what you want to keep going at this point? ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/131 "2002-08-13T17:43:59Z")
Ah, the cognitive dissonance that must be achieved to call another person dishonorable, then turn around and insult their mother. Pure class, but it’s about what I’d expect – no target is too distant or off-base. And if elucidator considers it a slur that I think he thinks conservatives are evil, I’ll eat **his** shorts. He probably has it printed on a T-shirt. “Slur,” indeed. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/132 "2002-08-13T17:44:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\ ***gobear** , not everyone reads everyone else’s self-indulgent posts. I have no idea about **pldennison** ’s personal history, nor do I care, under the circumstances. Nothing excuses his conduct here - or yours. \*\* you know, when I read **gobear’s** post about that, I thought "gee, not everyone knows each and every thing about other posters - hell lots of folk still think I’'m male. " so I would have supported you on this basis. However, when you’ve been made aware that inadvertently you’ve really stepped into a sensative area, unless you’re a total ass, you say ‘oops, sorry, didn’t know’ and then you could go on and say you still believe blah blah blah, w/o the refererence. Instead, you posted this. I’ll just stand waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over here if you don’t mind. ---
**Author:** ![lurkernomore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@lurkernomore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurkernomore)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/133 "2002-08-13T17:45:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace0Spades \* > \*\*Self-motivated and intolerant is fine feature in a CEO or a lawyer. Now we’re learning how terrible it is in an administration. \*\* Just learning it now? Where have you been the last couple of decades? Been a lot of hypocrites and phonies on both sides. And we’re in for more, since it’s become a government of the lawyers, by the lawyers, and for the lawyers. And you think it’s a fine feature? ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/134 "2002-08-13T17:48:57Z")
**Anthracite** you are exactly right, and prior to my last post I was really hoping that this thread would die a painful death. However, I was really ticked about Scylla’s comment, and just couldn’t help myself. Apparently there is no such thing as a reasonable discussion when it comes to politics and certain members of this board. Mods if you will: please kill this thread. Thank you ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/135 "2002-08-13T17:54:23Z")
Acehole: > [@](#): > > \*\*Self-motivated and intolerant is fine feature in a CEO or a lawyer. \*\* You think so? Maybe we can harness your brain power and make toast. bio-brat: > [@](#): > > I think that the Conservative viewpoint attracts a disproportionate level of stupid and naive people, and even more of the self-righteous, self-congratulatory whiners whose lack of experience or reasoning ability nevertheless does precious little to thwart their earnest certainty that they have all the answers and know better. Polly want a cracker? > [@](#): > > The Conservative wingnuts blowup Federal buildings and shoot abortion doctors, where ours just burn down empty houses and release lab rats. Yeah, that’s right. No liberal wingnut would actually ever hurt anybody. It’s not like any of them would ever shoot John Lennon, or mail letter bombs from their cabin. Not to mention the greatest liberal flower child of them, good ole Charlie Manson and his loving family. Yeah, those liberal wingnuts are such an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/136 "2002-08-13T17:58:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by essvee \* > \*\*I looked up ‘self-congratulatory’ in the American Heritage dictionary and there was a picture of Scylla right next to it. \*\* Damn, but I look good in that picture! ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/137 "2002-08-13T18:00:30Z")
Geez, the way some folks sling the “conservatives are evil” bull around, you’d think the GOP Dopers are busy sacrificing babies to statues of Alan Greenspan or selling their souls to the infernal spirits of Dow Jones and Nasdaq. Anyway, I think this train has wrecked, so I’m jumping off. As it is, after typing responses to the loathsome **ElvisLives** , I need to wash my hands. Toodles. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/138 "2002-08-13T18:06:10Z")
bio-brat: > [@](#): > > However, I was really ticked about Scylla’s comment, and just couldn’t help myself Why? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/139 "2002-08-13T18:08:16Z")
**wring** , since you seem a reasonable sort, I’ll address you. The subject was **pldennison** ’s conduct in this thread, and it’s acceptability. His statements were made in total consciousness of their implications. My objections to them were not. So he may have had troubles in his life - haven’t we all? Do they allow us to say whatever we want to others? I think you know better. Still waiting to hear **gobear** ’s own excuse(s) - can you come with some for him? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436/140 "2002-08-13T18:17:20Z")
**Anthracite** , welcome to the scrum. You’re obviously not reading very well – I don’t have a problem painting with a broad brush, which a cursory glance at any of my posts would prove. I’m merely finding **gobear** wanting on his own standard. Here, I’ll even repost where I said it: > [@](#): > > _I personally don’t have a problem with you using stereotypes,_ but if you think four posters at the SDMB is counter-proof to any argument: If we come to the agreement that we don’t have to say “It’s my opinion,” I don’t see why we have to say “The following is a generalization of chararcterization the extrememe fringe” Duh. When we say X is Y, there’s always exceptions. We seem to be getting a little heated over interpretations and insults _I propose a cease-fire, and a round of margaritas._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-liberal-not-stupid/123436.md?page=8)