# I'm looking for American-produced stories in which the United States is the villain ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 15, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300 "2013-08-15T12:08:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/1 "2013-08-15T12:08:17Z")
in an international armed conflict. By “American-produced,” I mean either written by an American citizen or published by an American company, and preferably both. I’m specifying international armed conflict because I’m not interested in stories like, oh, Stephen King’s _Firestarter_\*, in which a shadowy government cabal exploits or abuses American citizens on our soil. I want stories in which there’s actual battles (if not all-out war) on foreign soil. Need I explain villain? Okay, fine. In the story, the US should either be perceived by the protagonist as being the aggressor, or be shown as such by the tone of the narration. I don’t care if the stories are novels, comic books, movies, television shows, or theatre, or are heroic fantasies or more thoughtful dramas. No comedies, though (I ask in full knowledge that I’ll be ignored if the thread gets legs). Thoughts, anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/2 "2013-08-15T12:18:33Z")
_Wag the Dog_ is a movie about starting a war for a presidential political reason. Though you could argue that a party seized the reins of government and used it for its own ends, so it’s arguably a movie about an invisible coup. Long time since I’ve seen it, though … FYI, if you’re looking for non-fiction, there’s plenty out there about Bush/Cheney and the last Iraq war. There’s also some about Reagan and the invasion of Grenada. Oops, didn’t read all the OP. WTG is a black comedy. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/3 "2013-08-15T12:20:47Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > FYI, if you’re looking for non-fiction, there’s plenty out there about Bush/Cheney and the last Iraq war. There’s also some about Reagan and the invasion of Grenada. > . I am not looking for non-fiction. I’d rather the thread not descend into a Bush-bash or Reagan-roast. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/4 "2013-08-15T12:26:37Z")
BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY probably counts, since the whole point was to explain why Ron Kovic joined Vietnam Veterans Against The War. ---
**Author:** ![wellanuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@wellanuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wellanuff)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/5 "2013-08-15T12:50:13Z")
I haven’t read it, but the Wikipedia plot description of _It Can’t Happen Here_ by Sinclair Lewis includes the U.S. turning into a totalitarian state, which eventually leads to an “unjustified invasion of Mexico.” ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/6 "2013-08-15T12:58:10Z")
How about _The Last Samurai_? While not the villain directly, the US were working with the Japanese emperor Tom Cruise ends up siding against. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/7 "2013-08-15T13:01:42Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > How about _The Last Samurai_? While not the villain directly, the US were working with the Japanese emperor Tom Cruise ends up siding against. Are United States troops actually involved in armed conflict in this story, on the “wrong” side? ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/8 "2013-08-15T13:02:55Z")
I don’t if it would be right to say America is the villain in John Sayle’s _Amigo_, which is set in the early part of our occupation of the The Philippines. But we’re definitely not the good guys, either. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/9 "2013-08-15T13:03:54Z")
I’m not sure this is how imperialism works. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/10 "2013-08-15T13:06:54Z")
And though I’m coming up blank at the moment I’d have to think that there have been many westerns that present the U.S. military as in the wrong during various Indian wars and skirmishes. Though that would fall to the definition of “international conflict.” ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/11 "2013-08-15T13:08:33Z")
The movie Syriana might qualify. The US isn’t involved in all-out armed conflict, but it is covertly assassinating people and setting off bombs. Been a while since I saw it, but IIRC… They arrange the assassination of a progressive ‘Saudi’ Prince, to assure his more oppressive brother ascends to the throne, because the evil brother promised the US more oil. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/12 "2013-08-15T13:12:52Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Are United States troops actually involved in armed conflict in this story, on the “wrong” side? As far as I can recall, only the emperor’s troops… backed by the US. Tom Cruise’s character was training them. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/13 "2013-08-15T13:18:43Z")
_Dances with Wolves_ probably counts depending on whether you consider Indian territory in the 1860s to be “foreign soil”. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/14 "2013-08-15T13:19:02Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > And though I’m coming up blank at the moment I’d have to think that there have been many westerns that present the U.S. military as in the wrong during various Indian wars and skirmishes. > > Though that would fall to the definition of “international conflict.” Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee … ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/15 "2013-08-15T13:52:24Z")
_Avatar_ count? All the humans spoke with American accents (or at least I don’t recall any who didn’t), even Sam Worthington. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/16 "2013-08-15T15:39:58Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Are United States troops actually involved in armed conflict in this story, on the “wrong” side? No, America sold the emperor his guns and artillery and provided training for the troops. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/17 "2013-08-15T16:32:12Z")
I can think of numerous movies in which the US armed forces and/or top military leaders are presented as evil, but not many in which the evil Americans are at war with other countries. Among the many movies presenting the US military and top generals as evil _ **The Siege** _ (Bruce Willis as a power-mad general who wants to put all Arabs in concentration camps) _ **Seven Days in May** _ (Burt Lancaster as power-mad general who wants to stage a coup d’etat) _ **Outbreak** _ (Donald Sutherland as power-mad general plotting germ warfare) _ **The Abyss** _ (power-mad Navy SEALs want to slaughter wonderful, peace-loving aquatic race) _ **The Iron Giant** _ (mean old US military ganging up on poor, innocent robot) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/18 "2013-08-15T17:01:15Z")
Fail-Safe might qualify, although the conflict there results from error, not conscious aggression. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/19 "2013-08-15T17:07:54Z")
Going back a bit, the film _[Gabriel over the White House](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Over_the_White_House)_ has a US President turn into a fascist dictator, and eventually use the threat of a superweapon to blackmail the rest of the world into disarming. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/20 "2013-08-15T17:14:39Z")
The computer game _Fallout 2_ takes place after a nuclear war. The ultimate villain of the game is the remnants of the US government, who have a plan to eliminate all the “mutants” (ie, everyone who is not them) in the wastelands. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300.md?page=2)