# I'm looking for American-produced stories in which the United States is the villain ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 15, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300 "2013-08-15T12:08:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/21 "2013-08-15T17:42:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The computer game _Fallout 2_ takes place after a nuclear war. The ultimate villain of the game is the remnants of the US government, who have a plan to eliminate all the “mutants” (ie, everyone who is not them) in the wastelands. I think that was Fallout 3. Fallout 2 was when it was revealed that: The US government ran the Vault program as a series of psych experiments. Mind you, as of Fallout 1 it is apparent from the intro that US isn’t the nice guys as they annex Canada forcefully in response to Chinese antics. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/22 "2013-08-15T18:00:27Z")
The Showtime series Homeland sort of fits, in a way - though it likes its ambiguity over who the good and bad guys are. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/23 "2013-08-15T18:34:19Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > I think that was Fallout 3. It was also the plot of _Fallout 3_, yes. The second game ends when… …you assault the oil rig that serves as the seat of the US government, and kill President Richardson in his office. They’re still around in the second one, except… …“President Eden” is really a super computer that took over after Richardson died, and is trying to complete his plan from the previous game. Also, iirc, the “Vaults as psych experiments” thing came from Fallout 3. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/24 "2013-08-15T18:43:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Fail-Safe might qualify, although the conflict there results from error, not conscious aggression. By the same token, _Dr. Strangelove, or How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Excessively-Long Title_. Though there, one could argue that the Russians were _also_ the villains. Not really any heroes in that movie. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/25 "2013-08-15T19:10:19Z")
Canadian Bacon is a comedy, but even though Hacker is kind of the villain, nothing would have happened if the President hadn’t tried to cause trouble with Candada. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/26 "2013-08-15T19:13:48Z")
I’ve never actually seen it, and only know it from plot outlines… but would _Birth of a Nation_ count? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/27 "2013-08-15T19:18:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also, iirc, the “Vaults as psych experiments” thing came from Fallout 3. They were revealed in Fallout 2: that Vault 13 was given faulty chips etc., other had other problems, etc. In Fallout 3 (and Fallout NV) you actually explore several of the Vaults that had those issues. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/28 "2013-08-15T19:29:17Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Canadian Bacon is a comedy, but even though Hacker is kind of the villain, nothing would have happened if the President hadn’t tried to cause trouble with Candada. As long as we’re discussing lame comedies, \*\*\*Spies Like Us \*\*\*has a power-mad general played by Steve Forrest who wants to nuke the world. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/29 "2013-08-15T19:32:37Z")
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**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/30 "2013-08-15T19:35:37Z")
One movie in which American soldiers are clearly the bad guys in a foreign war: Brian de Palma’s _ **Redacted.** _ ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/31 "2013-08-15T19:35:55Z")
Does [The Quiet American](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quiet_American_(2002_film)) and the book it was based on count? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/32 "2013-08-15T19:38:47Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > _Dances with Wolves_ probably counts depending on whether you consider Indian territory in the 1860s to be “foreign soil”. I came in to say this. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/33 "2013-08-15T19:59:37Z")
> [@](#): > > By the same token, Dr. Strangelove, or How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Excessively-Long Title. > > Though there, one could argue that the Russians were also the villains. Not really any heroes in that movie. \*Dr. Strangelove \*is what I wanted to cite, Chronos, though I would argue that Lionel Mandrake was fairly heroic. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/34 "2013-08-16T00:41:57Z")
Walker - about William Walker, played by all-American Ed Harris. Walker invaded Mexico essentially a a privateer for American interests. As played by Harris was a screaming nut-job of the first order. Director Alex Cox did this straight after Repo Man and Sid and Nancy. He’s a Pom but the American writer is Rudy Wurlitzer [could only be more American if it was Rudy Kardashian-Wurlitzer III]. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/35 "2013-08-16T01:00:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also, iirc, the “Vaults as psych experiments” thing came from Fallout 3. IIRC it was touched on in 2. But the concept way predates 3, and was mainly suggested in non-game canon, like the _Fallout Bible_. I think I could, umm… suggest umm… the Turner Diaries? No, I have not read them. Given the author’s POV, the gov’t is bad, and objectively they seem so, but not compared to the “hero.” Pretty much any dystopian work where the government becomes despotic counts. Also, Tenacious D - The Government Totally Sucks > [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Does [The Quiet American](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quiet_American_(2002_film)) and the book it was based on count? The book - Graham Greene was English. The film’s director is Australian. ---
**Author:** ![Renifer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Renifer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renifer)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/36 "2013-08-16T04:02:25Z")
Can think of several almost examples. The most apt of them is _Gone With The Wind_. The South, having seceded from the union, was technically foreign territory, and you have the United States Union side burning Atlanta and raiding plantations. Michael Moore’s _Fahrenheit 911_, if documentaries count. _Roots_, with America very actively participating in the African slave trade. Indirectly, the _Resident Evil_ movies. An American saboteur releases a virus that by movie number 3 has spread worldwide. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/37 "2013-08-16T04:16:15Z")
There was a movie about the soldiers who deserted to the Mexican army because of their poor treatment in the American one. I can’t remember the name. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/38 "2013-08-16T04:37:14Z")
I suppose any American-made movie with an anti-Vietnam War message would count. “Letters from Iwo Jima” is an American WWII movie told from the Japanese perspective. I don’t recall it particularly vilifying the US, though as it’s told from the Japanese viewpoint the US is obviously the villain. Phillip Roth’s “The Plot Against America” is an alternate history of the US sliding into Fascism. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/39 "2013-08-16T07:10:18Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > _Wag the Dog_ is a movie about starting a war for a presidential political reason. There was no war in _Wag the Dog_ - it was faked. I suppose you could make the case that the U.S. was a pretend villain in a pretend war. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300/40 "2013-08-16T08:41:46Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > There was a movie about the soldiers who deserted to the Mexican army because of their poor treatment in the American one. I can’t remember the name. _One Man’s Hero_, starring Tom Berenger. Another western, with the U.S. Army as the bad guys, and the Native Americans as good guys: _Soldier Blue_, starring Candice Bergen and Peter Strauss. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-american-produced-stories-in-which-the-united-states-is-the-villain/666300.md?page=3)