# I'm looking for fantasy stories in which magic is literally, physically dangerous to humans. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 10, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789 "2014-07-10T20:38:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/21 "2014-07-10T22:17:00Z")
I think “Feast of Souls” by C.S. Friedman fills the bill nicely. From my review of the book: > [@me](#): > > To wit: there are two categories of magical practitioners in Feast of Souls. There are witches, who, whenever they use their powers, draw on their own soul’s power (they call it the “athra” in Feast of Souls) and in doing so, age prematurely, as the athra is what keeps people alive. Most don’t make it out of their 30s, and it’s not at all uncommon for them to die in their 20s. This doesn’t sound so tragic in light of what we know of life expectancies in medieval Earth, but there’s a difference in the world of Feast of Souls: witches can magically cure illnesses in themselves and others, so the life expectancies are much higher on their world than on Earth – or would be if it weren’t for that whole “using up the athra” thing. > > Witches can be male or female, rich or poor, it all seems to come down to a random genetic thing. (See: Star Wars, “The Force.”) > > There are also sorcerers in Feast of Souls. The source of their sorcery is unknown to non-sorcerers, but it clearly isn’t their own souls because they not only don’t die young, they don’t die, period. That is, they are mortal and can be killed, but they don’t age (see: magically curing illnesses, including apparently aging) and they have so much magical power and experience that it’s really, really hard to kill them. > > Sorcerors get their magical power by establishing a psychic connection with a random person (they can’t control who it is, and they don’t even know who it is) and draining THEIR athra of its power, eventually killing them, and not all that eventually if they use their powers freely. (The more you use magical powers, the faster the athra goes away.) This is not a spoiler, it’s part of the basic setup of the plot. BTW, this is not an “eventually” thing: witches rarely live beyond age 30. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/22 "2014-07-10T22:17:23Z")
Some of the answers involve magic being extremely dangerous when something goes wrong or when used incorrectly. Do those instances qualify? Because almost all fantasies involving magic have that particular trope. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/23 "2014-07-10T22:24:28Z")
_Avada kedavra_ , pretty much the definition of dangerous. To the target, of course. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/24 "2014-07-10T22:48:08Z")
‘Beyond the Sea Gate of the Scholar Pirates of Sarskoe’, ‘Sir Hereward and Mr. Fitz Go To War Again’, and ‘A Suitable Present for a Sorcerous Puppet’, short stories written by Garth Nix. The effects of magic on people aren’t what the stories are about, but you still don’t want to mess with the esoteric. And they’re cool little stories too. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/25 "2014-07-11T00:40:45Z")
The magic system of Steven Erikson’s _Malazan Book of the Fallen_ series is very dangerous if you don’t have sufficient control. The warrens can actually blow right through an insufficiently strong mage, and the use of chaos is directly deleterious to the health of normal-world beings. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/26 "2014-07-11T00:45:41Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > ‘Beyond the Sea Gate of the Scholar Pirates of Sarskoe’, ‘Sir Hereward and Mr. Fitz Go To War Again’, and ‘A Suitable Present for a Sorcerous Puppet’, short stories written by Garth Nix. The effects of magic on people aren’t what the stories are about, but you still don’t want to mess with the esoteric. And they’re cool little stories too. The Abhorsen series has some pretty dire dangers for failure to use magic properly, too. You don’t want to just go around ringing those bells. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/27 "2014-07-11T00:48:11Z")
In L E Modesitt’s “Recluce” series, there are two kinds of magic…Order Magic, which is fundamentally constructive, and Chaos Magic, which is fundamentally destructive. Chaos Magic, unless the Chaos Wizard is extremely careful, tends to prematurely age and weaken the user, and a lot of Chaos Wizards, especially later on in the timeline of the series, tend to be pretty mentally unstable and megalomaniac. Order Magic tends to be less dangerous to the user, but it is shown that use of powerful Order Magic, especially to harm others, can lead to the Mage being struck blind or otherwise disabled, sometimes temporarily, sometimes permanently. ---
**Author:** ![Sasquatch\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@Sasquatch\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sasquatch_1)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/28 "2014-07-11T01:39:03Z")
You might try the **Night of Madness** and \*\*The Unwilling Warlord \*\*novels by Lawrence Watt-Evans. His Ethshar world has multiple types of magic, but the warlock version is pretty much my definition going to result in a bad end. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/29 "2014-07-11T02:39:51Z")
Thought of another one: In David Weber’s Bahzell Bahnakson books (starts with _Oath of Swords_), magic isn’t inherently harmful, and there are some forms of magic which are safe… but the sort of magic used by wizards inherently requires expenditure of life-force to get any significant effect. The good wizards would use their own life-force (including complete self-immolation in extreme necessity) or that of willing volunteers, but they’re now extinct, with the only wizards left being the evil ones who gain power by sacrificing others. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/30 "2014-07-11T04:10:00Z")
_The Dragon Waiting_ by John M. Ford fits. It’s an alternate history of Richard III with magic. Magic almost always systematically destroys the user over a long period of time, which is used as a plot point; there’s one gruesome scene where an example of this is shown. (There are also vampires, where vampirism is treated somewhat like heroin addiction (if heroin addiction had the side effect of immortality). The vampires are also essential to the plot and the construction of the alternate history (which forks with Julian the Apostate and Justinian). I almost never like vampires and I like the way he does vampires.) I find that John M. Ford is something of a specific taste – he’s very dense and allusive and often difficult to follow, but man, this book is so brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/31 "2014-07-11T04:10:05Z")
Sorta-kinda what you want: Rick Cook’s “Wizardy” series. It’s not so much that magic is inherently bad, it’s that this is a super-high magic world. Imagine walking around in a suit made of flint and steel in an atmosphere that’s got a ton of oxygen and hydrogen. Our hero (a programmer from this world) says “So…wait. You’re saying that magic works? Like” he grabs a twig off the ground, twiddles it in a few circles while saying “this? BIBBIDY BOBBIDY BOO” and three HUGE fireballs shoot out, nearly setting the entire forest alight. And it’s not really replicable. Each gesture, timing, inflection must be perfect and identical. If one new safe spell per _century_ is created, that’s a GOOD century. Most people who do anything remotely magical without decades of training usually die horrible deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/32 "2014-07-11T05:12:22Z")
In Duane Duane’s _The Door into Fire_ and sequels there’s two types of magic, sorcery (which isn’t harmful), and another which is fueled by the life of its user and shortens their lifespan. Don’t be fooled by the embarrassingly bad (and inaccurate) cover, it’s good. In L.E. Modesitt Jr’s Spellsong Cycle books, “Darksong” is sorcery that affects living and once living things; it is progressively dangerous to sorcerers. It’s compared to an allergy, where the more exposed you are to it the more sensitive you become. The effects are easily fatal. In _The Guardians of the Flame_ series magic is dangerous because it’s addictive. The more powerful a wizard is, the more obsessed they become with magic. The most powerful people by far in the setting are the great wizards - they are continent breakers in power - but they almost don’t matter in practice because they are almost completely focused on cramming as many spells as possible into their heads. In _The Diplomacy of Wolves_ and sequels magic deforms those who use it in an inhuman fashion, although many get around it by forcing the deformities onto other people. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In the Dresden Files universe, using black magic (that is, magic done in violation of any of the [Seven Laws](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dresden_Files_The_Seven_Laws_of_Magic)) is sure to drive the practitioner insane eventually, if the Wardens don’t cut his head off first. It is not explained how the White Council’s all-licensed Blackstaff manages to remain sane. > [@Infovore](#): > > I’m pretty sure it is, actually. It has something to do with the staff he wields. Yes; it’s the (stolen?) walking stick of the Mother of Winter, and allows him to safely use black magic. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/33 "2014-07-11T08:43:32Z")
In _The Belgariad_, the Will and the Word was generally not harmful, but trying to make something not exist was immediately fatal. Since this was a form of magic that could easily be learned accidentally, you had a one in three chance that you wouldn’t even know you could perform magic before it killed you. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/34 "2014-07-11T08:49:43Z")
Mages in the _Dragon Age_ games are pretty much inherently dangerous to themselves and anyone else. Anyone with the gene for magical talent, whether or not they have any training, is constantly at risk of demonic possession, especially while asleep (since the mind passes into the spirit realm while dreaming). A single possessed mage can easily bring dozens or hundreds more demons through into the physical world with them and create mass chaos, to the point that most cultures kill or imprison all mages and magically lobotomize the ones who lack enough skill to defend themselves against possession. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/35 "2014-07-11T12:50:15Z")
Terry Pratchett frequently touches on this, but it’s most central to _Equal Rites_. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/36 "2014-07-11T15:19:31Z")
How about the ORIGINAL [Sorcerer’s Apprentice](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sorcerer's_Apprentice), a poem by Goethe from 1797. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/37 "2014-07-11T16:42:59Z")
The Warhammer world has a concept that magic is the use of chaos. If you are evil or chaotic, then the magic does literally harm you over time (physical ailments, insanity, etc. or even turning you into a demon over time), though they’re nice enough that those who are good or neutral don’t suffer the same effects. I haven’t read enough of their fiction to know whether 1) this is still true (Warhammer is notorious for re-inventing things) or 2) they actually use this trope much in the fiction. I’m surprised no one has mentioned HP Lovecraft yet. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/38 "2014-07-11T17:16:43Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > The Warhammer world has a concept that magic is the use of chaos. If you are evil or chaotic, then the magic does literally harm you over time (physical ailments, insanity, etc. or even turning you into a demon over time), though they’re nice enough that those who are good or neutral don’t suffer the same effects. > > I haven’t read enough of their fiction to know whether 1) this is still true (Warhammer is notorious for re-inventing things) or 2) they actually use this trope much in the fiction. > > I’m surprised no one has mentioned HP Lovecraft yet. 😛 It’s not so much that “if you’re evil, magic will do bad shit” and more “one third of the magic in the world taps into the very real and very fickle embodiments of chaos/evil”. So, yeah, that’ll leave a mark. And that’s before those embodiments actually notice you, start taking an active interest and just give you eternal life with supercancer or randomly mutate you into horrible shit because that joke never gets old. One other third is powered by magic plutonium, so there’s that too. And then there’s Orky magic, which is less “subtly corrupting” and more “if I don’t discharge my accumulated magic RIGHT NOW my head’s going to explode. Literally. Oh, and the more excited you (ork) guys get, the more uncontrollable magic flows into me. Oh, you guys are _really_ excited about me desperately flinging lightning bolts about in order to NOT DIE. Awesome”. That being said, I’m not sure how much of that is explored in the novels, which are typically more sword than sorcery. “Chaos magic is chaotic, Chaos gods are _dicks_” is explored more thoroughly in the Warhammer 40.000 novels. [QUOTE=Grumman] In _The Belgariad_, the Will and the Word was generally not harmful, but trying to make something not exist was immediately fatal. Since this was a form of magic that could easily be learned accidentally, you had a one in three chance that you wouldn’t even know you could perform magic before it killed you. [/QUOTE] As I recall, demonology (which was using the Will to create monsters) was pretty dicey too. As in, you lose control of your pet “demon” for half a breath and suddenly\* Saw\*. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/39 "2014-07-11T18:00:33Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > As I recall, demonology (which was using the Will to create monsters) was pretty dicey too. As in, you lose control of your pet “demon” for half a breath and suddenly\* Saw\*. Yes. Demons in that world were controlled by forcing them into a body that the summoner has created. The more detail involved in that body, the greater your control of the demon. If you leave out things like blood, if they’re injured, your control weakens. Summoning demons in their natural form into the world is a definite no-no, and doesn’t typically end well for the summoner. At all. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789/40 "2014-07-11T18:21:49Z")
> [@Sasquatch](#): > > You might try the **Night of Madness** and \*\*The Unwilling Warlord \*\*novels by Lawrence Watt-Evans. His Ethshar world has multiple types of magic, but the warlock version is pretty much my definition going to result in a bad end. I absolutely adore LWE’s Ethshar books, which is odd as I rank most fantasy as below Ikea assembly instructions on my interest scale. Warlockry has a direct and almost unavoidable cost, but all of his schools of magic take some toll and have distinct lethal pitfalls - even the relatively benign witches can exhaust themselves to death. (It’s possible that theurgists have no lethal consequences, although they could screw up their afterlives.) He never has fully explored what those “scientists” do, though. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-fantasy-stories-in-which-magic-is-literally-physically-dangerous-to-humans/692789.md?page=3)