# I'm looking for stories in which the hero consciously decides to kill an innocent. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313 "2012-12-27T20:00:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sevencl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sevencl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevencl)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/81 "2013-01-03T00:36:42Z")
Richard Rahl in the Sword of Truth series. At one he and his army massacre hundreds of unarmed peace protesters. ---
**Author:** ![Sevencl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sevencl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevencl)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/82 "2013-01-03T00:45:56Z")
Apparently you can’t edit a post older than five minutes. What the… Anyway, could an admin merge my two posts if they see this please? Here’re some more I thought of. In Animorphs, near the end of the series, Jake Berenson orders hundreds of Yeerks in their natural state (a blind, helpless slug) to be flushed into space from the pool they live in. Farseer trilogy - Fitz is trained as an assassin and murders many people on the orders of his king, but it’s glossed over (literally, we never actually hear about any of his assassinations besides the main plot’s). The Magister Trilogy (by Celia Friedman) is an interesting one. Magic is all cast from hitpoints, and the protagonist is a Magister, a person who’s learned to cast from OTHER people’s hitpoints. All the magic a magister uses drains life from their “consort”, a process which also makes magisters immortal. The story is about something else entirely; the magisters never get their comeuppance, just go on draining lives. Mistborn - Kelsier (deuteragonist in book 1) goes around killing noblemen a lot, on the basis that they’re “all bad”, but again it’s not really spoken of in great detail what actually happens, more the morality of it in an abstract way. Night Angel trilogy - protagonist is another assassin, for some of book one a real one too (as in paid to kill). Those are all I can remember off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/83 "2013-01-03T03:07:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Apparently you can’t edit a post older than five minutes. What the… Anyway, could an admin merge my two posts if they see this please? Here’re some more I thought of. The culture of this board has grown up around the non-editing of posts, so nobody really thinks it remarkable for someone to have a couple of posts back-to-back like that. It’s only really remarkable if the same person has four or five posts in a row. Oh, and welcome! You’re the first 2013 join date I’ve seen, and you already have more posts than the median new member. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/84 "2013-01-03T15:26:25Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Louis Wu purpously kills a Pak Protector and then kills millions of people on the Ringworld. Likewise, in the book **Protector** , the Brennan-monster sacrifices the population of Home to create an army of Pak protectors not to mention killing the inhabitants of Mars on the off-chance that they would pose a threat to humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/85 "2013-01-03T19:01:07Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > Just noticed the literature only caveat in the OP. I meant Looper : the novelisation, obviously Joe is at BEST a flawed hero, and arguably not a hero at all. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/86 "2013-01-03T19:22:28Z")
In Stephen King’s _The Green Mile_ (the novel, later made into a movie) Death row block supervisor Paul Edgecombe executes John Coffey for a crime he knows Coffey didn’t commit. Disclaimers: Edgecombe isn’t really the hero, but he is a sympathetic narrator. He doesn’t want to execute Coffey. Coffey tells him to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/87 "2013-01-03T19:30:02Z")
I’m gonna break one of the OP’s rules. The webcomic “Looking for Group” whose protagonist is definitely a hero, at one point has to kill an innocent to prevent some horrible evil. Given that his good friend and fellow quester is a warlock who enjoys killing innocents and often does so on a wholesale basis, it’s hard to take it all that seriously, however. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/88 "2013-01-03T19:51:43Z")
I think I’ve got a real answer that obeys all the OP’s rules. I think. See, I’ve seen the movie The Crimson Tide, but the guy who wrote the novel was really involved in the movie. So I think what happened in the movie Denzel Washington’s character gave the order to flood torpedo tubes, even though he knew there were guys in there trying to fix something happens in the book, and is a perfect example. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/89 "2013-01-03T22:21:06Z")
I am afraid I have two or three problems which my biggest are, I can’t remember the author or the title. It has to go up hill from here right? Yet it doesn’t. I am even vague about the plot. It is a World War II prison camp with a Japanese commandant. He and a British or Australian officer bond. The Japanese officer is ordered to do something like kill the prisoners and he doesn’t, so he has to commit ritual suicide. He asks the Brit (or Aussie?) officer to do the last act of chopping off of his head (which I believe comes just before the death?). I am sorry that I am so vague, but it has been decades since I read this (at least four). ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/90 "2013-01-03T22:48:59Z")
I don’t know if this counts. But in the beginning of movie _The American_, Jack (played by George Clooney) shoots his innocent girlfriend Ingrid. Though Jack is a gunsmith and contract killer, the movie never portrays him as a “bad guy” in any sense. …and that scene in the beginning where he shoots his girlfriend was a big turn-off for me. I couldn’t enjoy the rest of the movie due to that scene. **Edit: crap, just realized you we not interested in films. Sorry.** ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/91 "2013-01-03T23:30:18Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I don’t know if this counts. But in the beginning of movie _The American_, Jack (played by George Clooney) shoots his innocent girlfriend Ingrid. Though Jack is a gunsmith and contract killer, the movie never portrays him as a “bad guy” in any sense. > > …and that scene in the beginning where he shoots his girlfriend was a big turn-off for me. I couldn’t enjoy the rest of the movie due to that scene. > > **Edit: crap, just realized you we not interested in films. Sorry.** No need to apologize; I predicted that the conversation would expand unless it died on the vine. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/92 "2013-01-04T00:45:58Z")
> [@TV\_time](#): > > I am afraid I have two or three problems which my biggest are, I can’t remember the author or the title. It has to go up hill from here right? Yet it doesn’t. I am even vague about the plot. > > It is a World War II prison camp with a Japanese commandant. He and a British or Australian officer bond. The Japanese officer is ordered to do something like kill the prisoners and he doesn’t, so he has to commit ritual suicide. He asks the Brit (or Aussie?) officer to do the last act of chopping off of his head (which I believe comes just before the death?). I am sorry that I am so vague, but it has been decades since I read this (at least four). _Bridge Over the River Kwai_ ? Been a long time since I’ve read it…but it sounds right. SS ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/93 "2013-01-04T08:47:50Z")
Sam Vimes in Night Watch. > [@Terry Pratchett](#): > > He knew what was going to be in the dark arches of the cell tunnels, but that didn’t make it any better. Some people could walk, or maybe hop. One or two had just been beaten up, but not so badly that they couldn’t hear what was going on just out of sight, and dwell on it. They cringed when the gates were opened, and whimpered as he touched them. No wonder Swing got his confessions. > > And some were dead. Others were…well, if they weren’t dead, if they’d just gone somewhere in their heads, it was as sure as hell that there was nothing for them to come back to. The chair had broken them again and again. They were beyond the help of any man. > > Just in case, and without any feeling of guilt, Vimes removed his knife, and…gave what help he could. There was not a twitch, not a sigh. The page is acting up for me so I’m having trouble seeing if this is here already. Also not sure it counts. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/94 "2013-01-04T09:08:24Z")
Harlan Ellison’s _A Boy and His Dog_ comes awful darn close to what you want, but I think it barely misses the mark. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/95 "2013-01-04T13:23:28Z")
There are quite a few “patriot” books wherein the hero essentially murders government agents bent on infringing the rights of Americans. Two that come to mind: [_Unintended Consequences_ by John Ross](http://www.amazon.com/Unintended-Consequences-John-Ross/dp/1888118059/) [_Molôn Labé!_ By Boston T. Party](http://www.amazon.com/Molon-Labe-Boston-T-Party/dp/1888766077/) I have a hardcopy of Unintended Consequences. John Ross signed it for me at the Knob Creek Gun Range about 10 years ago. According to Amazon, it is worth at least $550? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/96 "2013-01-04T13:29:35Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > _Bridge Over the River Kwai_ ? > > Been a long time since I’ve read it…but it sounds right. > SS No, that’s not it. It’s more _Town Like Alice_ish than that. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/97 "2013-01-04T14:05:34Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > There are quite a few “patriot” books wherein the hero essentially murders government agents bent on infringing the rights of Americans. Well, within the contexts of those books, those agents wouldn’t be innocents. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/98 "2013-01-04T16:06:17Z")
Depending on whether you consider him a ‘hero’ (arguable either way, though he is trying for the greater good), or whether you consider comic books ‘literature’, this happens in _Watchmen_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/99 "2013-01-05T02:36:39Z")
Mack Reynolds supplies a variant of this, in **Computer War** , when an injured guerrilla heroically points out that the eeeevil government has an unbeatable truth serum: _“if they got me, they’d stick me under Scop and I’d betray half our people in town. I’m expendable, Till. Finish me.”_ She does. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313/100 "2013-01-05T07:04:32Z")
I don’t know that I would consider mercy killings or euthanasia. Here’s a case that fits the bill. The book _[Armor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_(novel))_, by John Steakley. The story begins with a character who is in a prison where the workers are kept underfed to keep them weak, and they are forced into labor to work themselves to death. The “hero” of the story decides he needs to break out or he will eventually die there, and his plan requires him to kill one of the other inmates so he can steal the guy’s food, and thus get enough energy to escape. Now this character admits to not being a hero, having a dubious past, but he goes on to be the protagonist of the story and being somewhat heroic. We are definitely supposed to identify with and root for this character. The poor sap he killed was innocent of wrongdoing against him and just happened to be convenient for his plan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-stories-in-which-the-hero-consciously-decides-to-kill-an-innocent/645313.md?page=6)