# I'm looking for the Name of Two Phonetic Characters. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 20, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-the-name-of-two-phonetic-characters/752770 "2016-04-20T23:30:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-the-name-of-two-phonetic-characters/752770/1 "2016-04-20T23:30:40Z")
Two interesting characters, that apparently are or were used at one time to represent sounds. I have this old Webster’s dictionary that dates back to the 1960’s. Anyways, it has a section on the International Phonetic Alphabet. It gives the IPA character for the “u” sound in “up” and “cut”. All I can tell you, is that it is an upside down lower case “v”. I have been searching for its name, without success, for a little while now. I try inputing “upside down v” in a Google search, but to no avail. I can tell you one thing, though. It would be in a Wikipedia article. (BTW, I also tried “upside down V” in a Wikipedia search–also to no avail.) Please don’t try to tell me this is just a schwa (Ə) sound:). I just looked it up again to be sure. And it clearly is an upside down V. As I said, I just want to know what it is called. Also, this next one is more of a historical one. It is a ligature of a “t” and an “h” put together, clearly representing “th” sound in English. I only know it is found in the “curse” on Shakespeare’s grave. Here: [the curse](https://www.google.com/search?q=shakespeare+curse&rlz=1C1SFXN_enUS586US586&espv=2&biw=1532&bih=745&tbm=isch&imgil=5dz_htbYkcZcRM%253A%253B1JCuAdq2OciY7M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.beautifulengland.net%25252Fphotos%25252Findex.php%25252Fwarwickshire%25252Fstratforduponavon%25252Fwilliamshakespearesgraveholytrinitychurch&source=iu&pf=m&fir=5dz_htbYkcZcRM%253A%252C1JCuAdq2OciY7M%252C_&usg=__289fV2-1GCHL3rw4AciSr61s_EI%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjb2Mj5rJ7MAhXomIMKHS5oC0kQyjcILw&ei=Ow4YV5vPOeixjgSu0K3IBA#imgrc=5dz_htbYkcZcRM%3A). I want to know what it is called. And while we’re at it, is it ever used anymore? I personally think it is neat. And distinctly English. Unlike the theta (θ) and edh (ð)–also used in the IPA system. I think Ben Franklin may have used this symbol too, in his impromptu phonetic alphabet. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-the-name-of-two-phonetic-characters/752770/2 "2016-04-20T23:45:11Z")
I assume you mean the thing that looks like a Y. I believe this is a development from the rune called thorn, Þ, þ. It along with edth or eth, Ð, ð represented the th sounds. Thorn was also written with an open top looking something like an upside down h, though the stem upright was taller. Printers type imported from Europe did not have these symbols and a y was substituted. So what you’re actually seeing is very likely a Y, though it represents a thorn. > **[Thorn (letter)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_%28letter%29)** > > Thorn or þorn (Þ, þ) is a letter in the Old English, Old Norse, Old Swedish and modern Icelandic alphabets, as well as modern transliterations of the Gothic alphabet, Middle Scots, and some dialects of Middle English. It was also used in medieval Scandinavia, but was later replaced with the digraph th, except in Iceland, where it survives. The letter originated from the rune .mw-parser-output .script-runic{font-family:"BabelStone Runic Beagnoth","BabelStone Runic Beorhtnoth","BabelStone Runic Beo... ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-the-name-of-two-phonetic-characters/752770/3 "2016-04-20T23:50:09Z")
1. [Turned v](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turned_v). I don’t think you’ll get anything more specific than that. 2. I don’t know this but “th ligature” has to describe it pretty well. Not exactly what you’re looking at, but the Old English th was either thorn: Þ, þ or eth Ð, ð, a distinction preserved in modern Icelandic… Theta is used in IPA for the former pronunciation. Later usage also used “Y” as in “Ye Olde Shoppe.” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-the-name-of-two-phonetic-characters/752770/4 "2016-04-21T00:21:05Z")
There’s also a Turned A: > **[Turned A](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turned_A)** > > Turned A (capital: Ɐ, lowercase: ɐ, math symbol ∀) is a letter and symbol based upon the letter A. > Turned a presented in Edward Lhuyd’s Archaeologia Britannica, 1707. > Turned a in William Pryce’s Archaeologia Cornu-Britannica, 1790. > It was used in the 18th century by Edward Lhuyd and William Pryce as a phonetic character for the Cornish language. In their books, both Ɐ and ɐ have been used. It was used in the 19th century by Charles Sanders Peirce as a logical symbol for 'un-American' ("unameri... I know this purely because there’s an anime which references it in the title for overly elaborate reasons. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-the-name-of-two-phonetic-characters/752770/5 "2016-04-21T03:02:07Z")
The “y” in “ye” and “yt” represents the thorn, as mentioned above. The form of “yt” is known as a scribal abbreviation. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-the-name-of-two-phonetic-characters/752770/6 "2016-04-23T01:41:34Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > 1. [Turned v](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turned_v). I don’t think you’ll get anything more specific than that. > > 2. I don’t know this but “th ligature” has to describe it pretty well. > Not exactly what you’re looking at, but the Old English th was either thorn: Þ, þ or eth > Ð, ð, a distinction preserved in modern Icelandic… Theta is used in IPA for the former pronunciation. Later usage also used “Y” as in “Ye Olde Shoppe.” That distinction also exists in modern English - just say ‘this thing’. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-looking-for-the-name-of-two-phonetic-characters/752770/7 "2016-04-23T02:07:28Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > That distinction also exists in modern English - just say ‘this thing’. Yes, the distiinctin between the two th sounds exists in spoken English but not in written English.