# I'm making a U-turn - I HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT OF WAY, ASSHOLE! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 21, 2004, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957 "2004-12-21T11:15:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/21 "2004-12-21T15:34:12Z")
Here’s how it works in California: > [@](#): > > [http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21801.htm](http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21801.htm) > > Left-Turn or U-Turn > 21801. (a) The driver of a vehicle intending to turn to the left or to complete a U-turn upon a highway, or to turn left into public or private property, or an alley, shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles approaching from the opposite direction which are close enough to constitute a hazard at any time during the turning movement, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to the approaching vehicles until the left turn or U-turn can be made with reasonable safety. > > (b) A driver having yielded as prescribed in subdivision (a), and having given a signal when and as required by this code, may turn left or complete a U-turn, and the **drivers of vehicles approaching the intersection or the entrance to the property or alley from the opposite direction shall yield the right-of-way to the turning vehicle**. From what is described in the OP, it appears as though he complied with section (a) by waiting until he had a clear opportunity to proceed against traffic from the opposite direction. Once into his turn, section (b) requires that the guy turning right on the red light, remain stopped until the OP’s turning vehicle had cleared the intersection. Additionally, regarding the responsibility of the person making a right turn on a red light: > [@](#): > > [http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs25thru29.htm](http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs25thru29.htm) > > **Right Turn Against A Red Light.** Signal and stop for a red traffic light at the limit line, if there is one, or before entering the intersection. If there is no sign which prohibits a right turn on the red light, you may turn right. **Be careful that you do not interfere with pedestrians, bicyclists, or vehicles moving on their green light**. The OPer, being the one with the green light in this situation, retains the right of way. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/22 "2004-12-21T15:38:55Z")
Just to add more confusion to this thread, are you sure he didn’t have a green right turn arrow? I was almost hit the other day by a guy who had a left-turn green arrow. But since it was illegal to make a U-turn at the light I had a green right turn arrow. He would have creamed me if I hadn’t hit the brakes, and he gave me a dirty look. I commented to my wife that I bet the guy thought he had the right of way because of his green light. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/23 "2004-12-21T15:40:25Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > If I can just add a somewhat-related rant of my own here - when I’m stopped at a green light, waiting for traffic to clear so I can make my left turn, and I’m waiting for oncoming right turners to turn into the single lane that we’re both driving into, drivers behind me, QUIT HONKING YOUR DAMNED HORN AT ME! What do you want me to do - drive right into the side of the drivers with right-of-way? That’ll look good on my insurance report. If those right turning drivers have a yield sign in their right-turn-lane then **you** have the right-of-way and the drivers behind you are trying to remind you of that. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/24 "2004-12-21T15:42:22Z")
The OP has ROW only if he completed his U-turn and is now crossing in front of the right turn-er. Otherwise, the right turn vehicle would have ROW (U turns are a type of left turn and as others have mentioned, you don’t have ROW). I’m assuming the OP is making a U-turn in a left turn only lane with a green light (since you cannot enter an intersection on a red for a left/U-turn). In this case, the right turn person has ROW. Anyways, I don’t see how it should be a huge deal. Neither car should be moving that fast and I’d like to think the right turn person would be able to detect a vehicle moving into their lane. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/25 "2004-12-21T17:24:48Z")
> [@Shade](#): > > FTR I’m in the UK, and AFAIK the advice here for a U-turn was basically “don’t”: it’s expected that if you want to turn in a quiet road you do a 3-point turn or reverse into an even smaller road, and in a busy road you turn off it into a quiet one. Strangely enough there seems to be no such thing as a three point turn in USA, most roads are quite wide enough to do a U turn in. You can really worry an American passenger if you do one 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@Spree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spree)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/26 "2004-12-21T18:02:20Z")
We have the divided lanes with medians here, so two situations are considered u-turns. The first is when you make a u-turn at an actual traffic light - this is legal unless noted by signage. This is what our drivers handbook says about making turns into an intersection with a traffic light (i.e. “right on red”) > [@](#): > > You may turn right unless prohibited by law. You may also turn left if both streets are one way unless prohibited by law. **You must yield to** all pedestrians and **other traffic lawfully using the intersection**. The other is when want to turn where there’s not a light. If you’re heading in direction (a), you can wait until there is an opening in the median divider, then move into the left hand lane and turn into the opening gap (b). Then you must wait until all traffic traveling in direction © has passed, then you’re clear to turn. If somebody wants to turn right onto the road from (d) (say, from a small side street or from the shopping center parking lot), that person must wait until all traffic in the road is clear - including (b). ---------- (d) --------------- c\< \< \< \< c\< \< \< \< c \_\_\_\_\_\_(gap) \_\_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_ ( b ) \_\_\_\_\_\_\<-- (MEDIAN DIVIDER) a\>\>\>\>\>\>a\>\>\>\>\>\>a So, at least in Texas, in both situations, the OP has the right-of-way. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/27 "2004-12-21T18:07:40Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > If those right turning drivers have a yield sign in their right-turn-lane then **you** have the right-of-way and the drivers behind you are trying to remind you of that. No, the right turners have the same green light that I have - they are approaching me head-on. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/28 "2004-12-21T18:22:57Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > Strangely enough there seems to be no such thing as a three point turn in USA, most roads are quite wide enough to do a U turn in. You can really worry an American passenger if you do one 😉 True 🙂 It occurs to me we do have another unamerican way of turning: rounderbouts. Which are practically _made_ for it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/29 "2004-12-21T18:24:48Z")
Shayna beat me to it, but in California, at least, the right-turner-on-red must yield ROW to everyone else. The RTOR, or really any right-turner who is waiting to go while his direction of traffic does not have the green light, has to allow for perpendicular traffic, even U-turners to complete their maneuvers. Sam ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/30 "2004-12-21T18:25:09Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > Strangely enough there seems to be no such thing as a three point turn in USA, most roads are quite wide enough to do a U turn in. You can really worry an American passenger if you do one 😉 In some places – like the town where my daughter lives and just took Drivers Ed – three point turns are illegal. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/31 "2004-12-21T18:38:00Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > No, the right turners have the same green light that I have - they are approaching me head-on. Humm. I always thought there was an implied yield there - that is, they have to let the left turners clear the lane before they proceed. I have nothing at all resembling a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/32 "2004-12-21T18:43:03Z")
> [@Freejooky](#): > > God, can I make a U-turn once without the person trying to make a right onto the road i’m making a U-turn onto trying to cut me off? I have the right of way! > > Why does it seem like NOBODY knows this? Just this evening, it happened TWICE - I notice that while I’m about to make a U-turn at this intersection, someone’s waiting to turn right onto the road I’m making the U-turn onto. I assume that they’re going to know that in this situation, I have the right of way and let me pass. Instead, each time, as soon as there was a gap in traffic - and I started to make my U-turn - they start to pull out, only to slam on their brakes and look bewildered as to why I’m slamming on mine and blaring my horn at them! It’s because I HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT OF WAY, YOU IDIOT! I agree. This happens to me all the time as well. The person at the red light, who is making a right turn on red, is required by law to make sure that conditions are safe before making that turn. That includes _yielding to traffic that is legally negotiating the intersection._ This includes U-turners, where legal. We have a little-known law here that increases the fun. Say you are on a two-way street, sitting at a red light at an intersection that meets a one-way street. According to local traffic laws, you may execute a _left turn_ on red onto the one-way street, traffic permitting. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/33 "2004-12-21T19:14:47Z")
**Freejooky** kinda needs to get back in here and clear up the confusion about the right turning car. Is it a right turn on red? A yield sign? A stop sign? None of the above? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/34 "2004-12-21T19:23:13Z")
> [@5que](#): > > In some places – like the town where my daughter lives and just took Drivers Ed – three point turns are illegal. However doing a 3 point turn was part of the drivers test in New York, at least when I took it _mumble mumble_ years ago. Though living in California now, I understand why hardly anyone does it - we’ve got wide streets. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/35 "2004-12-21T19:26:21Z")
> [@Shade](#): > > True 🙂 It occurs to me we do have another unamerican way of turning: rounderbouts. Which are practically _made_ for it 🙂 We have them too, except we call 'em “traffic circles”. These can be [small](http://terraserver-usa.com/addressimage.aspx?t=4&s=8&lon=-77.1091080139326&lat=38.8456251201746&alon=-77.10916109&alat=38.84288624&w=1&opt=0&qs=chesterfield+road%7carlington%7c&addr=S+Chesterfield+Rd%2c+Arlington%2c+VA+22206) (Chesterfield Road & South Dinwiddie Street, Arlington, VA), [medium](http://terraserver-usa.com/addressimage.aspx?t=4&s=8&lon=-77.0430533943556&lat=38.9096716470821&alon=-77.04394644&alat=38.91009189&w=3&opt=0&qs=dupont+circle%7cwashington%7cdc%7c&addr=Dupont+Cir+NW%2c+Washington%2c+DC+20036) (Dupont Circle, Washington, DC), or [large](http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=18&X=2922&Y=22873&W=1&qs=%7cbear+mountain%7cny%7c) (Palisades Parkway entrance, Fort Montgomery, NY). They can even be [oval](http://terraserver-usa.com/addressimage.aspx?t=4&s=9&lon=-77.0848952618899&lat=38.8402913051826&alon=-77.08665561&alat=38.84115479&w=3&opt=0&qs=2775+s.+quincy+st.%7carlington%7cva%7c&addr=2775+S+Quincy+St%2c+Arlington%2c+VA+22206) (Shirlington Rotary, Arlington, VA). ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/36 "2004-12-21T19:27:10Z")
> [@trandallt](#): > > **Freejooky** kinda needs to get back in here and clear up the confusion about the right turning car. Is it a right turn on red? A yield sign? A stop sign? None of the above? AFAIK, it doesn’t much matter what kind of right turn it is. A right-turner, unless given express permission to turn right by a right turn light, or a 4-way stop sign, must yield to other traffic. The right turner is the only one who is totally protected, and that is why they give up their ROW. Left/U-turners and straight traffic in the direction the right turner wants to go are all exposed and are therefore protected. As an example, I turn left at an intersection with a light every morning. There are many right-turners at this intersection. Every damned morning I GET CUT OFF BY A RIGHT-TURNER. hey man, I’m the one who is risking getting stuck in the intersection, or struck by a car coming from the opposite direction, back the fuck off and let me complete my fucking turn! At least that’s the way it works(ha!), in California… Sam ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/37 "2004-12-21T19:28:48Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I agree. This happens to me all the time as well. The person at the red light, who is making a right turn on red, is required by law to make sure that conditions are safe before making that turn. That includes _yielding to traffic that is legally negotiating the intersection._ This includes U-turners, where legal. > > We have a little-known law here that increases the fun. Say you are on a two-way street, sitting at a red light at an intersection that meets a one-way street. According to local traffic laws, you may execute a _left turn_ on red onto the one-way street, traffic permitting. :rolleyes: You can do this in California also. It makes perfect sense. You can also do a right turn on red from the leftmost of two right turn only lanes. As for the OP, I know that many right turn on redders don’t really bother to look. I’ve had to face them down even when I’ve been making a u-turn on a left turn arrow. And there is no mind-reading involved - in several of the intersections near me, about half the cars in the left turn lane make u-turns to get to the stores on the opposite side of a divided road. Anyone with any brains stops and waits until you are sure the car turning left is actually turning left. It’s not that hard. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/38 "2004-12-21T19:48:26Z")
> [@zut](#): > > Well, I was taught in driver’s ed that the person making a right-hand turn has right-of-way over people making left-hand turns. Which I guess your U-turn is, sort of. So in this situation, I’d assume the person making the right-hand turn has the right-of-way. > > Sorry, no cite, but you didn’t give one either. If you are making a U turn on a left green arrow which allows U turns, the person to your left has a RED light, whether he is turning right, or wanting to go straight. So the OP is correct, at least in the driving situations I’ve come across. Yes, you’re allowed to turn right on a red, provided you **yield** to traffic with the right of way. In t his case, the guy U-Turning with a green arrow on a U turn allowed intersection. It’s been around 30 years since I took my drivers’ test, but it seems like I remember this one from the book. I could be wrong though. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/39 "2004-12-21T20:04:45Z")
> [@trandallt](#): > > What **bizzwire** said. How is the guy making the right turn supposed to know you are u-turning and not turning left? He has a red light, he’s supposed to be yielding to any other traffic. (and about that “supposed to” what **Inigo** said, never assume they’re going to). And as to how you’re supposed to know? A car making a left turn goes into the turn very differently than the car making a U turn, if you’re paying attention, as you SHOULD be if you’re at a RED wanting to turn right, you can see the cars in the left lane manuevering themselves into the “U Turn position”. That is, they swing somewhat wide as they approach the intersection and begin to make their U turn quite early on. As opposed to the gentler wider flowing out into the left turn lane of the intersection that is a normal left (sorry best description of a regular I could think of 🙂 ). At any rate, they do look very different, especially with the larger vehicles attempting to make them. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/40 "2004-12-21T20:15:04Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > If you are making a U turn on a left green arrow which allows U turns, the person to your left has a RED light, whether he is turning right, or wanting to go straight. That person to your left might have a green right-turn arrow; depends on the intersection. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957.md?page=3)