# I'm making a U-turn - I HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT OF WAY, ASSHOLE! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 21, 2004, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957 "2004-12-21T11:15:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/101 "2004-12-28T03:25:44Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > If he is making a right on Red, he has the ROW to the right hand lane as long as no traffic is coming. I still say he has the ROW over the U-Turner since the U-Turner is turning into the wrong lane, and, the intent of the U-Turner is impossible to predict. Anyone would assume that the person is going to turn left. I think you’re right about this. I know of an intersection near me that has a lot of traffic turning right, so it has a protected right green arrow. Now, it has heavy volume both ways through this turn, so if you made that protected right, went a mile down the road and turned around (using a parking lot; a U-Turn would get you killed,) to come straight back, and now wanted to turn left so you could go back to where you started, you would reach a protected green arrow for left turns. The relevant part is that the protected right arrow and the protected left arrow are both lit at the same time, because these turns are always independent of each other. If, however, you tried to make a U-Turn at the protected left arrow, you would be slamming into the people who were making their protected right arrow turns. This came to mind because the protected right turn is onto a two-lane section. Your point is a good one in that a U-Turn would force a car to turn into the far lane, which is (obviously) where the right turners are turning into. There is no sign prohibiting U-Turns anywhere around this intersection. Perhaps **blowero** could explain this setup to me so that my meager understanding of traffic laws would be expanded. Even when I open my eyes, I still never see anybody make U-Turns around here. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/102 "2004-12-29T07:51:14Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > As to the OP. U-Turns should be avoided, from what I’ve seen, people make U-turns because they screwed up and missed a turn. False. There are many situations where it is necessary to make a U-turn. Just an example: You exit from a driveway onto a street with a raised median; you need to turn left onto the street, but are prevented from doing so by the median; the proper thing to do in that situation is to turn right, go to the next intersection, and make a U-Turn. One cannot always make 3 right turns; besides it being a stupid, time-wasting, convoluted thing to do, not every city is laid out in perfect grids. If U-Turns are prohibited in the particular place you’re driving, then you have no choice. But if they are allowed, there are lots of situations where it would be ridiculous to try to avoid making one. A person who lives in the boonies or doesn’t have a lot of driving experience might not know this, but most people who have done a lot of city driving in different areas does. > [@](#): > > There is no way that the right-turner can anticipate what you are doing. And IMHO, a U turn will put you in the outer most lane, not the inner most lane (where you should be). So the u-turner is at fault. Illegal lane usage. That sounds really wrong, unless you live somewhere with some really bizarre laws. Here in California, it’s perfectly acceptable to finish your U-turn in the outer lane. You will not be cited for failing to accomplish the impossible. If you have a cite for a law that considers completing a U-turn in the outside lane to be “illegal lane usage”, I’d love to see it. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/103 "2004-12-29T07:56:58Z")
> [@imthjckaz](#): > > How does the other driver know you are going to make U-turn? > > Does your car come equipped with a U-turn signal? > > Or do you just flip you left turn signal on? Assuming you have a red light and are making a right turn, it is your duty to make sure the roadway is clear before you enter it. That means looking _both_ ways. > [@](#): > > If it’s the later, then I would assume you’re making a left turn… When you assume…you know the rest. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/104 "2004-12-29T08:07:58Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Okay, douchebag, name me a situation where a car crossing _fewer_ lanes (or none at all) has to yield the right of way to a car crossing _more_ lanes without the benefit of stoplights or stop signs. Just one. Until you do, go fuck yourself. You just don’t get it. The number of lanes crossed is irrelevant. Whether I can give examples of correllations between numbers of lanes crossed and right-of-way is immaterial, because the right-of-way is not determined that way. There are very specific statutes that give very specific conditions under which one must yield the right-of-way, and “number of lanes crossed” is not one of those conditions. It’s like if you said blue cars have the right-of-way over yellow cars, and I said “no they don’t”, and then you asked me for an example of a yellow car ever having the right-of-way. My response would be that the color of the car is irrelevant. > [@](#): > > I weep for your driver’s ed pupils. Or rather, all the corpses they must be creating due to your impeccable tutelage. First of all, I said I was a driving instructor, not a driver’s ed teacher, idiot. I gave behind-the-wheel training. Second, I was just thinking that you might want to look into a refresher course yourself. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/105 "2004-12-29T14:33:37Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > False. There are many situations where it is necessary to make a U-turn. Just an example: You exit from a driveway onto a street with a raised median; you need to turn left onto the street, but are prevented from doing so by the median; the proper thing to do in that situation is to turn right, go to the next intersection, and make a U-Turn. One cannot always make 3 right turns; besides it being a stupid, time-wasting, convoluted thing to do, not every city is laid out in perfect grids. Then we will have to agree to disagree. I’ve been driving since 1975. About 15 years of it in Denver. And many other experiences in cities that aren’t grided out, like Pittsburgh. I rarely encounter situations where I need to make a U-turn. And don’t consider making a U-turn a better option than three rights, or pulling into somewhere and turning around. I’ve been driving for nearly 30 years, I’ve never been involved in any kind of accident. I must be doing _something_ right. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/106 "2004-12-29T14:54:17Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I rarely encounter situations where I need to make a U-turn. So you do make U-turns, right? Why? What made it completely unavoidable? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/107 "2004-12-29T15:06:54Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > So you do make U-turns, right? Why? What made it completely unavoidable? I can’t honestly remember when the last time I made a U-turn was. I’m sure I have a few times. Probably because I was lost, missed a turn and was in a rush. That’s the only time I would do it. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/108 "2004-12-30T00:48:31Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > You just don’t get it. The number of lanes crossed is irrelevant. No, you aren’t understanding my post at all. Your example of blue cars and yellow cars demonstrates that you still don’t grasp what I’m saying. _This_ is what I’m saying. There are many different laws dictating who must yield the right of way in numerous different situations. If one looks at all these diverse situations, one can identify a _pattern_ in the noise that can aid people in figuring out the right of way laws in a situation they are unfamiliar with. This _pattern_ is exactly what I stated: The more lanes you cross, the more you must yield. Yes, before your head explodes, I recognize that this is not written into the law. I never claimed it was. I’m offering a _relevant_ guideline (as opposed to your blue and yellow cars example) to all the drivers out there. Let’s look at some cases. Where there are no traffic indicators such as signs and lights, the following rules apply: (When I say highway, I mean limited access highways.) 1. Cars changing lanes on a highway must yield to cars not changing lanes. 2. Cars merging onto a highway must yield to cars already on the highway. 3. Cars turning left (off the roadway) must yield to oncoming traffic. 4. Cars crossing a street must yield to cars already traveling on the street. 5. Cars entering a street from a driveway must yield to cars already on the street. In these five examples, the identifiable pattern is that the more lanes you cross, the more you must yield. Again, _I am not claiming this is a law_, I am claiming this is an _identifiable pattern_ in the traffic laws. You have disagreed with this position several times in this thread. But you aren’t speaking to the position, you are speaking to the law, which _is not relevant to what I’m saying_. So, to better clarify your position, please identify for me any situation where any car must yield to another car that is crossing more lanes of traffic. Remember, I’m not asking for statutes, so answering “it’s not in the law” is a simpleminded strawman argument. The only way you can logically refute my position is to show more (or any) examples where crossing lanes does not require yielding to traffic that isn’t crossing lanes. It doesn’t matter if my position is spelled out in the lawbooks or not. I’m pointing out an _emergent principle in traffic laws_, and the best refutation you’ve come up with so far is that “crossing lanes is not a specific condition for granting right of way.” No kidding. I never said it was, and my argument doesn’t require it. > [@](#): > > It’s like if you said blue cars have the right-of-way over yellow cars, and I said “no they don’t”, and then you asked me for an example of a yellow car ever having the right-of-way. My response would be that the color of the car is irrelevant. This part of your response makes me wonder if you are even capable of grasping what it is that I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/109 "2004-12-30T00:51:44Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > There are many situations where it is necessary to make a U-turn. Just an example: You exit from a driveway onto a street with a raised median; you need to turn left onto the street, but are prevented from doing so by the median; the proper thing to do in that situation is to turn right, go to the next intersection, and make a U-Turn. I must defend **blowero** on this one. Even here in CT, the land of the no U-Turns, we have divided roadways that require U-Turns if you want to go left. This one’s a no-brainer. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/110 "2004-12-30T08:06:37Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > No, you aren’t understanding my post at all. Your example of blue cars and yellow cars demonstrates that you still don’t grasp what I’m saying. No, I grasp what you’re saying. I’m just telling you that what you’re saying is stupid. > [@](#): > > _This_ is what I’m saying. There are many different laws dictating who must yield the right of way in numerous different situations. If one looks at all these diverse situations, one can identify a _pattern_ in the noise that can aid people in figuring out the right of way laws in a situation they are unfamiliar with. This _pattern_ is exactly what I stated: The more lanes you cross, the more you must yield. That’s fucking gibberish. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/111 "2005-01-02T04:20:43Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > No, I grasp what you’re saying. I’m just telling you that what you’re saying is stupid. > > That’s fucking gibberish. End of story. You have failed to present any data whatsoever that contradicts my original position. Instead, you have simply put your fingers in your ears and continued to chant “la la la I can’t hear you!” I conclude that you are either monumentally stubborn, or not very bright. Either way, I cannot see any value in continuing this debate. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/112 "2005-01-02T04:27:51Z")
I wasn’t going to comment but since the thread got bumped: Just because you can distinguish patterns does not mean that they are some “guiding principle”. They are simply patterns. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/113 "2005-01-02T04:50:47Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I wasn’t going to comment but since the thread got bumped: > > Just because you can distinguish patterns does not mean that they are some “guiding principle”. They are simply patterns. Not a guiding principle in legislating traffic laws. A guiding principle in how to follow them. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/114 "2005-01-02T04:52:52Z")
Well if it works for you… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/115 "2005-01-02T05:06:47Z")
Jeebus. Just trying to keep track of all the various possible U-turn/right turn combinations used in your examples is making me dizzy. This thread would be a lot easier to follow if you guys could work together to create a handy dandy Flash animation. (And just where the heck is **Freejooky** , anyway? Did he make one too many U-turns against the light and wind up in a hospital?) ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/116 "2005-01-02T10:59:24Z")
He probably made another U-turn at an intersection with a traffic light, which is illegal where I last took driver’s lessons 😉 ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/117 "2005-01-02T15:19:06Z")
It would seem, regardless of whether they are legal in your area, that U-turns are a bad idea. That’s why I avoid making them. ---
**Author:** ![mike1dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@mike1dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mike1dog)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/118 "2005-01-02T15:37:11Z")
I find it hard to believe that such an esoteric subject as who has the right of way on a u-turn can have this much traction. That’s why I love this message board. Has anyone ever heard of making a U-turn from the right lane? I have a friend who says that even if there is a sign prohibiting U-turns that you can make one from the far right hand lane. This sounds like the ravings of a lunatic mind to me, since it seems far more dangerous, but she insisted she “read it somewhere.” ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/119 "2005-01-02T15:39:07Z")
Your friend should have her license taken away. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957/120 "2005-01-02T16:59:03Z")
> [@mike1dog](#): > > I find it hard to believe that such an esoteric subject as who has the right of way on a u-turn can have this much traction. That’s why I love this message board. Has anyone ever heard of making a U-turn from the right lane? I have a friend who says that even if there is a sign prohibiting U-turns that you can make one from the far right hand lane. This sounds like the ravings of a lunatic mind to me, since it seems far more dangerous, but she insisted she “read it somewhere.” And if a stop sign doesn’t have a white edge around it… Oh never mind. Have a talk with your friend. If she believes that, she really shouldn’t be driving. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-making-a-u-turn-i-have-the-fucking-right-of-way-asshole/280957.md?page=7)