I'm making a U-turn - I HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT OF WAY, ASSHOLE!

[zut]

@GaWd

AFAIK, it doesn’t much matter what kind of right turn it is. A right-turner, unless given express permission to turn right by a right turn light, or a 4-way stop sign, must yield to other traffic.
[…]
At least that’s the way it works(ha!), in California…

Are you sure? Cites this time:

California: The driver of a vehicle intending to turn to the left or to complete a U-turn upon a highway, or to turn left into public or private property, or an alley, shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles approaching from the opposite direction which are close enough to constitute a hazard at any time during the turning movement, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to the approaching vehicles until the left turn or U-turn can be made with reasonable safety.

Not crystal clear, I admit, but in other states it seems to be:

New York: If drivers approaching from opposite directions reach an intersection at about the same time, a driver turning left must yield to approaching traffic going straight or turning right.

Ohio: Right Of Way When Turning Left - The driver of a vehicle attempting to turn left shall yield the right of way to a vehicle approaching from the opposite direction.

Tennesee: When turning left at intersections you must yield to any oncoming vehicle proceeding straight or turning right, unless you have a traffic light where your left turn is on a protected green arrow.

@CanvasShoes

If you are making a U turn on a left green arrow which allows U turns, the person to your left has a RED light, whether he is turning right, or wanting to go straight. So the OP is correct, at least in the driving situations I’ve come across

Now, of course, if the intersection has a light specifically for left-hand turns (or U-turns, to reference the OP) then the light trumps anything else. But the OP implies that he was waiting far “a gap in traffic,” by which I assume that he wasn’t at a green arrow. In which case he’s supposed to follow whatever the default right-of-way law (in Illinois, I assume). Which I don’t know what it is, but if I were forced to guess, I’d think the right-turner has the right-of-way, based on the following:

Illinois: 625 ILCS 5/11-902)
Sec. 11-902. Vehicle turning left. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction which is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard, but said driver, having so yielded may proceed at such time as a safe interval occurs. (Source: P.A. 76-1586.)

Of course, I’d prefer if Freejooky clarified the situation.

[CanvasShoes]

@Lute Skywatcher

That person to your left might have a green right-turn arrow; depends on the intersection.

If he does, then it would NOT be a U turn alowed interesection, as I specified above.

[Contrapuntal]

@CanvasShoes

He has a red light, he’s supposed to be yielding to any other traffic. (and about that “supposed to” what Inigo said, never assume they’re going to).

And as to how you’re supposed to know? A car making a left turn goes into the turn very differently than the car making a U turn, if you’re paying attention, as you SHOULD be if you’re at a RED wanting to turn right, you can see the cars in the left lane manuevering themselves into the “U Turn position”. That is, they swing somewhat wide as they approach the intersection and begin to make their U turn quite early on. As opposed to the gentler wider flowing out into the left turn lane of the intersection that is a normal left (sorry best description of a regular I could think of ). At any rate, they do look very different, especially with the larger vehicles attempting to make them.

It is not clear from the OP that he is at a red light, at least to me. How is he to know if the OP is u-turning or turning left? If the OP is at right angles to the guy turning right, what differentiates between a left turn and a u-turn? We don’t know how many lanes there are in each direction, if the intersection is between a main street anda a side street, if there is a median, if there is a left turn lane, etc…

[c_goat]

@Lute Skywatcher

That person to your left might have a green right-turn arrow; depends on the intersection.

I would think in this case, the intersection is declared NO U TURN to avoid the possibility. At least that’s what I’ve seen in practice. Don’t know if it’s a requirement, but it wouldn’t make sense to not be.

[CanvasShoes]

@zut

Now, of course, if the intersection has a light specifically for left-hand turns (or U-turns, to reference the OP) then the light trumps anything else. But the OP implies that he was waiting far “a gap in traffic,” by which I assume that he wasn’t at a green arrow. In which case he’s supposed to follow whatever the default right-of-way law (in Illinois, I assume). Which I don’t know what it is, but if I were forced to guess, I’d think the right-turner has the right-of-way, based on the following:

Illinois: 625 ILCS 5/11-902)
Sec. 11-902. Vehicle turning left. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction which is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard, but said driver, having so yielded may proceed at such time as a safe interval occurs. (Source: P.A. 76-1586.)

Of course, I’d prefer if Freejooky clarified the situation.

Me too on the wishing he’d come back in and clarify. So yeah, I agree it would depend upon the intersection. Based on his wording in the OP it sounded to me as if it were an intersection wtih traffic lights.

But even if he was at a green ball, and had to yeild to oncoming traffic, the person at right angles to him, waiting to turn right would be a at a red light. To me, this still implies ROW to the person with the light, even if he is doing a U Turn (provided of course that this isnt’ an intersection with a No UTurn sign).

As chefguy said, this happens ALL the damn time up here, and a lot of our intersections allow U turns on the green arrow, and you do have to really watch, the bozos sitting at the right on red position frequenlty pay no attention, even though (thanks to our “Alaskan ingenuity” :rolleyes: road designs) U Turns are VERY common in many of our intersections.

Now, if it were a case like for instance a 4 way stop, wouldn’t the guy making a U turn STILL have ROW once his turn was at hand? But again, in our fair city, the bozos making the right turns tend to “jump the gun” rather than wait to see, despite the intersection in question being a common one for U turns (to get back into a popular business for example).

Other types of intersections you mentioned I’m not as familiar with. So I concede that a person at a yield or stop sign, wanting to turn right, in those instances may have right of way.

[Skywatcher]

@c_goat

I would think in this case, the intersection is declared NO U TURN to avoid the possibility. At least that’s what I’ve seen in practice. Don’t know if it’s a requirement, but it wouldn’t make sense to not be.

To my knowledge, around here the left-green and perpendicular right-green are only used when two multilane roads meet. Thus making both U-turns and right-turns safe unless both vehicles aim for the same lane.

[c_goat]

@Lute Skywatcher

To my knowledge, around here the left-green and perpendicular right-green are only used when two multilane roads meet. Thus making both U-turns and right-turns safe unless both vehicles aim for the same lane.

Oh yeah, I failed to consider multilane roads. Of course there’s a whole new rant about either party not turning into their assigned lane at that point.

[GaWd]

@zut

Are you sure? Cites this time:

California: The driver of a vehicle intending to turn to the left or to complete a U-turn upon a highway, or to turn left into public or private property, or an alley, shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles approaching from the opposite direction which are close enough to constitute a hazard at any time during the turning movement, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to the approaching vehicles until the left turn or U-turn can be made with reasonable safety.

Actually, yes, I’m damned sure. At a 4-way intersection with some sort of traffic control device-be it a sign or a light-a right turn from traffic eminating from perpendicular angles would not constitute “vehicles approaching from the opposite direction”. That would apply to both U-turning vehicles, as well as vehicles coming from the opposite direction wishing to change their intended direction(with a right turn)-an action which requires a vehicle to give up their ROW anyways.

Sam

[Severian]

@GaWd

Actually, yes, I’m damned sure. At a 4-way intersection with some sort of traffic control device-be it a sign or a light-a right turn from traffic eminating from perpendicular angles would not constitute “vehicles approaching from the opposite direction”. That would apply to both U-turning vehicles, as well as vehicles coming from the opposite direction wishing to change their intended direction(with a right turn)-an action which requires a vehicle to give up their ROW anyways.

While the above would apply to the OP, I think zut was referring to your post in which you complained about being cut off by someone turning right while you were making a left turn. Let’s just say you’re going north. Your left turn would then be a turn to the west. The only way someone making a right turn would “interfere” with you would be if that someone were heading south, turning right and to the west. Last time I saw a compass south and north were opposite directions. You’re the one cutting someone off.

[FilmGeek]

The U-Turn sign at a local intersection has a “U Turns must yield to cars turning right”.

So, Kansas is covered.

[Monocracy]

@GaWd

AFAIK, it doesn’t much matter what kind of right turn it is. A right-turner, unless given express permission to turn right by a right turn light, or a 4-way stop sign, must yield to other traffic. The right turner is the only one who is totally protected, and that is why they give up their ROW. Left/U-turners and straight traffic in the direction the right turner wants to go are all exposed and are therefore protected.

As an example, I turn left at an intersection with a light every morning. There are many right-turners at this intersection. Every damned morning I GET CUT OFF BY A RIGHT-TURNER. hey man, I’m the one who is risking getting stuck in the intersection, or struck by a car coming from the opposite direction, back the fuck off and let me complete my fucking turn!

At least that’s the way it works(ha!), in California…

Sam

You are wrong. If you get into an accident in this situation, it will be your fault. In a normal 4-way intersection, any oncoming traffic, with a green light, whether they are going straight or taking a right, has the right of way over left-turners crossing their lane. I know laws differ in different states, but the common sense ones are pretty straight across the country. (Although if they are right-turning on red, you have the right of way.)

As for the OP, he is right. People taking a right turn on red have to yield to pretty much everyone, including legal U-turners. And the other person obviously has a red light, as a city would not have simultaneous green lights on perpindicular streets in a normal 4-way intersection, unless it were trying to proactively fix the pesky population boom or solve the undercrowded hospital problem.

[Voyager]

@Lute Skywatcher

That person to your left might have a green right-turn arrow; depends on the intersection.

I’ve never seen that. Right turn arrows are only used at intersections where U Turns are prohibited, as far as I can tell.

And Lute, the intersection where I U-Turn most often is with a multi-lane road and a single lane road - in fact a road that T’s there. The left turn arrow is to allow traffic to easily turn left. Actually probably more than half the traffic U-turns here - it is the easiest way of going north outside from a fairly large shopping center where the exits go on a divided road that only easily allows one to go right and south.

[Cat_Whisperer]

And to make it even more interesting, how about when I’m hung out in the intersection waiting to make my left turn, and my light (and oncoming traffic’s light) turns red - do I have right of way over the right turners then, because I have to get the heck out of the intersection, and they can wait and turn right at any time during the red light? This exact situation happened a couple days ago. I took right of way over the oncoming right turner because I had to get out of the intersection, but I wasn’t exactly sure of the legality of it.

[CarnalK]

Illinois: 625 ILCS 5/11-902)
Sec. 11-902. Vehicle turning left. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction which is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard, but said driver, having so yielded may proceed at such time as a safe interval occurs. (Source: P.A. 76-1586.)

The wording of this section clearly does not cover the OP’s situation. A right turning vehicle would not be approaching from the opposite direction, rather a perpendicular direction. The rule that would apply would be the one that seems standard in areas that allow a right turn on red, you must wait for other traffic to clear to turn on red. Turning right on red is, AFAIK, always low man on the ROW totem pole.

That said, the driver making the u-turn is making an unusual maneuver and should therefore try to communicate his intention as much as possible.

[pepperlandgirl]

@Monocracy

You are wrong. If you get into an accident in this situation, it will be your fault. In a normal 4-way intersection, any oncoming traffic, with a green light, whether they are going straight or taking a right, has the right of way over left-turners crossing their lane. I know laws differ in different states, but the common sense ones are pretty straight across the country. (Although if they are right-turning on red, you have the right of way.)

Just to be clear, in California nearly every single left/u-turn is protected by a green arrow. I can only think of a handful of intersections that I have encountered that is not protected by a green arrow; therefore, when turning left you have the right-a-way–because in most cases it is illegal or impossible to turn left without the green arrow. People turning right when you have the green arrow is extremely annoying and common, and I think that’s what Gawd was referring to.

[blowero]

Hmmm…when I read the OP, I knew exactly what Freejooky meant (at least I’m 99% sure). He’s talking about making a U-Turn AT AN INTERSECTION (which is legal unless othewise prohibited) at which the cross-traffic does not have the right-of-way.

I’m almost sure that’s what he means, because it happens to me all the time. Example: I have a green light; I pull into the intersection; I wait for oncoming traffic to clear, I proceed to make my legal U-Turn; as I am completing the turn, a person approaching FROM THE CROSS STREET, from the same side as I am completing my turn on, who has a RED LIGHT, attempts to make a right turn into the same lane I am completing my U-Turn in, and fails to yield to me. That is incorrect, since a red light always yields to a green light.

The problem isn’t so much that it catches people off guard - I can understand that, because they aren’t really expecting a car to be coming around from the other side of the road like that. The problem is that when you honk at them, many people still refuse to comprehend the situation, and doggedly insist that they are right. A good clue to remember is: If you have a red light, you’re almost never in the right. I think a lot of people fail to realize that you are only allowed to turn right on a red light if you can do so without impeding traffic. You don’t have a God-given right to do so. If you didn’t see that car making a U-Turn, and he honks at you, you need to suck it up and hit the brakes, not consider it a sudden test of your manhood. And a contrite wave of apology wouldn’t be a bad idea either.

[blowero]

@pepperlandgirl

Just to be clear, in California nearly every single left/u-turn is protected by a green arrow. I can only think of a handful of intersections that I have encountered that is not protected by a green arrow; therefore, when turning left you have the right-a-way–because in most cases it is illegal or impossible to turn left without the green arrow. People turning right when you have the green arrow is extremely annoying and common, and I think that’s what Gawd was referring to.

Just a nitpick - there are many, many intersections in California that do not have controlling arrows for left turns.

[jsleek]

How about you don’t honk, even if you’re more correct? Most people, when honking occurs, stop to see what the problem is, which further delays traffic.

honk honk look honk honk see how much time is wasted?

[Contrapuntal]

@Monocracy

As for the OP, he is right. People taking a right turn on red have to yield to pretty much everyone, including legal U-turners. And the other person obviously has a red light, as a city would not have simultaneous green lights on perpindicular streets in a normal 4-way intersection, unless it were trying to proactively fix the pesky population boom or solve the undercrowded hospital problem.

In my city there is a four lane main drag separated by a median. Many side streets T-intersect that main drag. There is a pass through in the median at that intersection. No light controls that intersection. A car waiting to turn left from the main drag onto the side street would look just like a car waiting to perform a u-turn back onto the main drag going the opposite way.

Obviously if the right turning car has a red light all bets are off. Anyone at a red light has no right of way.

[GaWd]

Once again, for those who are slow on the uptake-

At a 4-way intersection, in this case controlled by a light(but not a green arrow), since the right turner is wishing to make a directional change and I am stuck in the intersection, he yields right of way to me. An accident in this situation will get him a ticket, not me.

You need to remember, people who are turning right in these situations occupy a cozy little spot in the intersection and are not at risk of being struck by another vehicle. THe left-turner, on the other hand, it stuck in the intersection and has the right of way because he is the one who assumes the risks.

Aside from that, he does not have a light regulating his traffic behavior, and can even turn right on a red light, therefore in situations where opposite-flow traffic wants to turn the direction he is travelling, he must yield ROW.

It’s not that hard people.

Sam