# I'm next door & I'm stealing your wireless bandwidth. How are you going to know? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 6, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635 "2006-04-06T22:05:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/21 "2006-04-07T13:44:56Z")
My ISP has an online usage monitor that shows how much you’ve downloaded each day. Would need to be a significant amount of “liberated” bandwidth to notice though - I agree that 20 mins surfing and emails isn’t likely to be noticed. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/22 "2006-04-07T14:36:27Z")
> [@Kiminy](#): > > I teach university classes, and one of my students let slip that her Internet connection is free–as long as she can tap into the wireless network of the business next door. It seems incredible to me that a business that would invest in wireless networking would have a completely open network, if only because the “extras” would slow down their connection. Some tech companies leave their wireless networks open to anybody. Access to the internal network requires the use of some kind of VPN that encrypts the traffic and authenticates the users. This is done so that the wireless settings on the laptops are easy to configure and visitors can have easy access to the internet so they can check their email etc. It make business meeting work better. You really cannot trust the WEP encryption to keep out anybody with the time or inclination to break it. I am not sure about WAP. Posted on the internet are examples of people cracking wep with only an hour or less of time sniffing ligitimate traffic. So companies need to have the VPN anyway. Leving the access points open just makes things easier. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/23 "2006-04-07T18:20:59Z")
While we’re on the subject. Why do Linksys Routers do such a bad job or telling you who’s on the network. For Example, I just looked at mine and it says ```auto DHCP Active IP Table DHCP Server IP Address: 192.168.1.1 Client Hostname IP Address MAC Address Interface None None None None ``` Well clearly that’s not right, I know for a fact there are 3 computers connected to it. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/24 "2006-04-07T19:02:55Z")
Based on the responses to this thread I just switched my [Linksys SRX 400](http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1130279435381&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper) over to WAP, and oddly, the signal strength improved substantially! ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/25 "2006-04-07T19:43:42Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Hmmm… lots of paranoid, unneighborly people here. I leave mine completely open for anyone at all to use. It’s never abused. I don’t see what the big deal is. Have you checked the contract you have with your ISP? You may find that running an open network contravenes that contract. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/26 "2006-04-07T21:49:36Z")
> [@Joey P](#): > > Well clearly that’s not right, I know for a fact there are 3 computers connected to it. But are they connected via DHCP? I have 10 addresses assigned on my home network, and always get the exact same screen, but I do static assignment and use a non-Comcast nameserver. **Duckster** , no I haven’t, but I don’t really give a crap what the terms of service says until it actually _affects_ me 🙂 – like maybe Comcast sends me a nasty letter. Yeah, there’s the possibility that someone downloads kiddie porn on my pipe, but the chances are remote enough not to worry me, kind of like getting hit by lightning or worrying about how I’ll spend my PowerBall proceeds. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/27 "2006-04-07T22:02:21Z")
Many people around here are tech savvy – actually a pretty surprising many – and they monitor their usage logs. Problem is the basic equipment offered by Qwest doesn’t really give too much data, so (as far as clients and friends go) if they’re not going to upgrade I ask them to at least turn on MAC filtering. The other sure-fire no-brainer option is to do a weekly “all computers off” test with the modem’s activity lights in plain sight for 2-3 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/28 "2006-04-08T03:47:18Z")
MAC filtering will only keep out the most casual intruders, as it’s trivial to sniff your computer’s MAC address when you connect to your access point and then spoof it. If possible use WPA or WPA-2 and set a nice long key. ---
**Author:** ![Just](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4af34b/32.png) [@Just](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/29 "2006-04-08T04:26:49Z")
Can I just ask (sorry if this is a semi-hijack): what is the typical range of a wireless network? (I have no experience with wireless networks myself.) I ask because there seems to be so many people who can just steal a neighbour’s bandwidth (from even two or three neighbours), and yet at the same time it seems that there are also people who can’t connect two computers in their homes wirelessly if the PCs are at the opposite ends of the house or on two different floors. How is it that there are so many open networks that are reachable like in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/30 "2006-04-08T04:36:33Z")
> [@Just](#): > > Can I just ask (sorry if this is a semi-hijack): what is the typical range of a wireless network? (I have no experience with wireless networks myself.) I ask because there seems to be so many people who can just steal a neighbour’s bandwidth (from even two or three neighbours), and yet at the same time it seems that there are also people who can’t connect two computers in their homes wirelessly if the PCs are at the opposite ends of the house or on two different floors. How is it that there are so many open networks that are reachable like in the OP? As the OP I have both issues going on. Wireless router broadcast signals are typically omnidirectional. My notebook is at the far opposite side of the house (ranch style single level) from the router and the signal is weak as it has to punch though all the walls in the house to get to the notebook. I am sure the signal from the router would be much stronger for the bedrooms of house next door that’s 25 feet away from it and only 2 walls in the way than for my bedroom that’s almost 70 feet away with 4 walls in the way. I can hit 2 houses (I have no ideas which ones) from my bedroom and it’s likely that their routers have the same issues and I am only 2 walls (their house & my house) away from their signal with only open air in between. ---
**Author:** ![Scrap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Scrap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scrap)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/31 "2006-04-08T14:20:12Z")
So what’s the difference between an open free wifi-spot or hot spot which is apparently not illegal at all and openly publicised and prometed and catching a free ride on what ever network you can pick up and according to some in here is concidered breaking the law or at the least immoral? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/32 "2006-04-08T14:31:24Z")
> [@Scrap](#): > > So what’s the difference between an open free wifi-spot or hot spot which is apparently not illegal at all and openly publicised and prometed and catching a free ride on what ever network you can pick up and according to some in here is concidered breaking the law or at the least immoral? > :smack: The intent of the owner. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/33 "2006-04-08T15:41:28Z")
I didn’t read everything in this thread because the technology is kinda giving me a headache, but I have a question. If you are logged on and working, can you block others from accessing your connection? If not, and that person is accessing something illegal, can you prove it wasn’t you that was accessing it? Thanks. And type slowly. This shit overwhelms me in a hurry. ---
**Author:** ![YWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/6f9a4e/32.png) [@YWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWalker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/34 "2006-04-08T15:45:42Z")
I have a co-worker who is also a co-owner of a coffee shop that offers free wi-fi and has a number of laptops inside for customers to use. He says that his partner can regularly look out into the parking lot and see a number of people out there in their cars on their laptops, tapping into the wi-fi. The police are regular users. They don’t so much resent the use of the wi-fi, but they do wish that people would come in and buy a coffee every now and then, rather than taking up all the parking spaces and scaring away legitimate customers who look at the lot and assume the place is too crowded. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/35 "2006-04-08T15:55:36Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I didn’t read everything in this thread because the technology is kinda giving me a headache, but I have a question. If you are logged on and working, can you block others from accessing your connection? If not, and that person is accessing something illegal, can you prove it wasn’t you that was accessing it? > > Thanks. And type slowly. This shit overwhelms me in a hurry. It all depends on the router you have. But in general he that controls the router can do what he pleases. As to proving that is wasn’t you send the death threats to the president. I would think you would have a very hard time proving that it was not you that sent them. I am not sure how far the mac address along the whole TCP/IP protocol that mac address is known but that seems to me to be the only conclusive way to tell and even then there are ways to change your mac address. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/36 "2006-04-08T17:06:11Z")
> [@astro](#): > > As the OP I have both issues going on. Wireless router broadcast signals are typically omnidirectional. My notebook is at the far opposite side of the house (ranch style single level) from the router and the signal is weak as it has to punch though all the walls in the house to get to the notebook. I am sure the signal from the router would be much stronger for the bedrooms of house next door that’s 25 feet away from it and only 2 walls in the way than for my bedroom that’s almost 70 feet away with 4 walls in the way. > > I can hit 2 houses (I have no ideas which ones) from my bedroom and it’s likely that their routers have the same issues and I am only 2 walls (their house & my house) away from their signal with only open air in between. [That can be helped!](http://wireless.hackaday.com/entry/1234000870032574/) ---
**Author:** ![Scrap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Scrap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scrap)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/37 "2006-04-08T21:50:46Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > The intent of the owner. Pardon? what do you mean by that? Intent? Owner of what? ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2006, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635/38 "2006-04-09T02:09:56Z")
The intent of the owner who is broadcasting willy-nilly. If I meant to because I love people and want to share, then great, help yourself. But if I’m just not smart enough to realize that the signal blasts outside my house, then I will be pissed if someone is poaching it. Ours is encrypted and hardcore, very secure. It’s nice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-next-door-im-stealing-your-wireless-bandwidth-how-are-you-going-to-know/351635.md?page=1)