# I'm no longer a Jew. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727 "2010-09-14T14:40:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/41 "2010-09-14T19:35:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > And the kids typically stay. That’s a good thing? Separating children from their parents ? And you know this how ? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/42 "2010-09-14T19:35:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, we don’t do anything similar. At all. And the kids typically stay. Isn’t staying kind of rough on them when their parents have been shown the door? Particularly in the case of minor children; the kind who tend to rely on their parents for virtually all the necessities of life? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/43 "2010-09-14T21:17:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, we don’t do anything similar. At all. And the kids typically stay. I still don’t see how any of this is a defense of Israel. Oh, what a shock. \*\*Dio \*\*got shown a bunch of evidence he was completely wrong, so he just didn’t respond to any of that and went back to a strawman, complete with meaningless and uncited assertions. (Cite for the fact that most children stay when their parents are deported? Cite that the ones who do stay aren’t harmed by their parents’ absence?) \*None \*of this is a defense of Israel. Which is why _you won’t see me defending Israel on this_. Anywhere. Including this thread. You fucking moron. What I am doing is saying that you need to stop thinking that the \*effective \*U.S. policy towards children born here is \*that \*much better. Let’s say Israel’s kneeing the kids in the balls, but we’re still kicking them in the shins. Shin-kicking is preferable to knee-balling, but neither is nice, and you shouldn’t be proud of being a shin-kicker. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/44 "2010-09-14T21:25:03Z")
Your complaint is just as stupid as complaining that we sometimes send people to prison who have kids, and that separates them from the kids. Who gives a shit? Israel is doing the equivalent of convicting the children too (and purely on the basis of race!). That’s not a trivial difference. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/45 "2010-09-14T21:26:40Z")
No, we just force them to choose between leaving the country or losing their parents. We’re classy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/46 "2010-09-14T21:29:08Z")
I’m all for letting the parents stay. Sign me up. I didn’t say America was perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/47 "2010-09-14T21:43:37Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > **kaylasdad99** : ☹ that he feels he has to knock wood on that statement But you feel a natural revulsion to knocking wood, cause there’s an evolutionary advantage to it…wait, wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/48 "2010-09-14T21:48:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I didn’t say America was perfect. No, but you did say, “We don’t do what’s being described in the OP.” Wheras, to me, it’s pretty much hairsplitting between “we will kick you out with your parents” and “we will kick you out, and then you can choose to go with your parents, or be separated from them for, if you’re lucky, the next couple decades.” > [@Ludovic](#): > > But you feel a natural revulsion to knocking wood, cause there’s an evolutionary advantage to it…wait, wrong thread. IRL LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/49 "2010-09-14T21:56:57Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Wheras, to me, it’s pretty much hairsplitting between “we will kick you out with your parents” and “we will kick \*\*you \*\*out, and then you can choose to go with your parents, or be separated from them for, if you’re lucky, the next couple decades.” Emphasis added. Ugh, sorry, I can’t construct sentences while I’m talking to other people, apparently. That should have been: Wheras, to me, it’s pretty much hairsplitting between “we will kick you out with your parents” and “we will kick \*\*your parents \*\*out, and then you can choose to go with them, or be separated from them for, if you’re lucky, the next couple decades.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/50 "2010-09-14T22:09:07Z")
Looks like the thread’s been **Dio-ized**. (Is that the right phrase?) Sorry, **Cartooniverse** ) ---
**Author:** ![BayouHazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BayouHazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BayouHazard)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/51 "2010-09-14T22:59:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > > Sorry, Israel, but you’re living in a global world here. Unless you’re planning on building a huge honking wall and cutting your whole country off from the rest of the world, > > Um, they are. > **[West Bank barrier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier)** > > The West Bank barrier, West Bank wall or the West Bank separation barrier, is a separation barrier built by Israel along the Green Line and inside parts of the West Bank. Israel describes the wall as a necessary security barrier against Palestinian political violence, whereas Palestinians describe it as an element of racial segregation and a representation of Israeli apartheid, often calling it a "Wall of Apartheid". At a total length of 708 kilometres (440 mi) upon completion, the Yes. Although the wall does seal off further westward expansion, which is probably a good thing-considering that the settlers are ideologically driven to take all they can. Incidentally, we here in the U.S.(the majority, but not all of this site’s traffic is U.S.-based, I think) do not seem to get unbiased reporting about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Our news slants to Israel, as in Israeli civilian casualties seem to get more coverage and more footage on air than do Palestinian civilian casualties. I’d have to look for a while to cite examples, though. The wife and I stopped having a television. We will not permit anyone to give us one, either. So this site is Palestinian-biased, but that I consider an anodyne for our regular reportage: > **[If Americans Knew - What every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine](https://ifamericansknew.org/?v=202510172251)** > > If Americans Knew is dedicated to providing Americans with everything they need to know about Israel and Palestine. Statistics updated every week. _ **Anders Strindberg, The American Conservative** _ “Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.” (quoted from the above site) So Israel was created through evicting Palestinians from Palestinian towns and putting up Israeli towns to replace them, as far as I know. If they had done anything to compensate the Palestinians for this land seizure, or resettled them somewhere else, I would have less of a problem with it. But they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/52 "2010-09-15T00:20:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So move to the Middle East, if that’s how you think things should be. OK, Rush. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/53 "2010-09-15T01:05:16Z")
> [@BayouHazard](#): > > > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > > > Um, they are. > > [West Bank barrier - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier) > Yes. > > Although the wall does seal off further westward expansion, which is probably a good thing-considering that the settlers are ideologically driven to take all they can. > > Incidentally, we here in the U.S.(the majority, but not all of this site’s traffic is U.S.-based, I think) do not seem to get unbiased reporting about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Our news slants to Israel, as in Israeli civilian casualties seem to get more coverage and more footage on air than do Palestinian civilian casualties. > I’d have to look for a while to cite examples, though. The wife and I stopped having a television. We will not permit anyone to give us one, either. > So this site is Palestinian-biased, but that I consider an anodyne for our regular reportage: > [http://www.ifamericansknew.org/](http://www.ifamericansknew.org/) > _ **Anders Strindberg, The American Conservative** _ > “Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.” > (quoted from the above site) > > So Israel was created through evicting Palestinians from Palestinian towns and putting up Israeli towns to replace them, as far as I know. > If they had done anything to compensate the Palestinians for this land seizure, or resettled them somewhere else, I would have less of a problem with it. But they didn’t. Oh, God. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/54 "2010-09-15T01:08:08Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Oh, God. That’s not a terribly descriptive comment. 🙂 How many of the Palestinians were displaced in 1948 by the Arab nations attacking the new state of Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/55 "2010-09-15T01:16:47Z")
Oh, God, how about a whole lot of smiting? Is that better? 😃 ETA: I should say, my groan was for the whole damned situation, not for any particular part of it. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/56 "2010-09-15T01:22:29Z")
Organizing a country around a religion is dumb. It screws up the government and it screws up the religion too. Trust me, I know. Organizing around an ethnic group is more common, but still quite dumb. Trying to do both is simply madness. It is, on the face of it, unjust and unsustainable. As someone (Kissinger?) once pointed out, things that are unsustainable must, by definition come to an end. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/57 "2010-09-15T01:32:32Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Organizing a country around a religion is dumb. Perhaps, but it is a place we can go and be safe when folks try to exterminate us. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/58 "2010-09-15T01:32:45Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > So, how does it make you not a bigot against your own ethnic group to treat all of it with such disgust over the actions of \*some \*of its members? And how does it help the image of that group for you to abandon it instead of fight to reclaim it as you believe it should be? Many Jews are anti-semites. ---
**Author:** ![BayouHazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BayouHazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BayouHazard)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/59 "2010-09-15T01:33:01Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How many of the Palestinians were displaced in 1948 by the Arab nations attacking the new state of Israel? According to this wikipedia article: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian\_refugee](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee), there’s not a straight answer to that question. Lowball estimate is 50,000, high estimate is 900, 000. However, my rather smart-aleck answer would be, “They were displaced in a conflict that ran from 1948 to the beginning of 1949. What, they couldn’t walk home by now? It’s a small country.”:dubious: I evacuated for a hurricane-if I came back and someone was living in my house, do they get to keep it? Something else I was not aware of- **Palestinians are denied citizenship in all other Arab league countries,** supposedly to reinforce the idea of their sovereign statehood, but in reality it means that they are born stateless persons and are treated like dirt no matter where they are. That is uncalled for. I think that the policy of the Arab league is the most horrible thing I’ve ever heard. Admittedly, I think if Palestinians were offered full citizenship elsewhere, they’d leave the occupied territories in droves. This would please the settlers, I’m sure. But I hate to see the Palestinians suffer because of other people’s ideologies, which, IMO, is what it boils down to. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727/60 "2010-09-15T05:13:23Z")
I feel that the merits, or lack thereof, of this particular case are beyond the scope of this thread. Instead, let me poke holes in the OPs logic. I completely understand the OP. Of course, he might want to stay Jewish, simply since other options are worse. [Christianity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades) is right out, of course. [Islam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11) is a worse choice, since THAT happened recently. Not even [Buddhism](http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/buddhist_extremists_brutally_attack_catholic_church_in_sri_lanka/) is safe. [Hinduism](http://video.christianpost.com/20091222/hindu-attacks-on-christians-in-india) can be quite brutal, actually. For people who don’t believe in anything, [Athiests](http://mattstone.blogs.com/christian/2009/12/atheist-attacks-on-christians-in-china.html) are quite brutal. Hell, you might as well just not live, since human beings do some nasty stuff… Oh wait, dead people did some crazy stuff too. Well, you can’t belong to any religion, or not believe in any religion, or be alive, or be dead… Might as well be a Gazelle. [Oh wait, they oppress baboons…](http://www.metacafe.com/watch/541132/mother_gazelle_defends_her_young_successfuly/) Seriously, if you’re going to condemn an entire group for one member’s actions, you’re an idiot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-no-longer-a-jew/553727.md?page=4)