# I'm not a bitch because you aren't listening. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089 "2009-07-24T05:39:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/101 "2009-07-25T18:06:33Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > I’m reminded of a thread I read on this very board. It was probably about six months ago or so. The OP was pitting a whole bunch of lawyers because they wouldn’t answer some questions for her for free to help her sue somebody. Some people tried to explain how what she was asking for was advise, which should cost money since it’s what lawyers get paid to do and all that. She insisted that she didn’t want advice, she just wanted some direction. When it was explained that it was still advice and that lawyers generally shied away from that sort of thing without defining the attorney/client relationship because they could get sued, she swore up and down that she wouldn’t sue. I think she even offered to pinky swear to it. > > Damn, if only I could remember who the OP of that thread was. **Roid**? **Noid**? Oh well, I’m sure it’ll come back to me. Bottom line was that whoever that OP was, she also didn’t understand the policy. When it was explained to her, she kept looking for loopholes and excuses as to why her situation was so different from all the others. Shoot, I really wish I could recall who that was. The OP of this thread could learn a lot from reading it for comprehension. **LA** , I think I love you. In a manly, shoulder-punching way. Certainly not in any way that would mean that we avoid eye contact the next day, or, when the subject comes up in future years, we laugh nervously and change the subject Certainly not. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/102 "2009-07-25T18:12:08Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I see your point in the case of actually answering or trying to answer the question, actually introducing new information. But “I don’t know” is not appropriately lumped in - it’s not giving new information. It’s exactly the opposite. It’s the indicator that the end of information has been reached. No, because it makes the clerk an agent in the conversation. When you say “I don’t know”, others can (and do) take it as an invitation to keep talking about it. Once you say “I”, it becomes personal. > [@](#): > > I understand all the negative feelings and how certain interactions can escalate. The case that has not yet been made, in my opinion, is for why irritating non-answers that give the impression you aren’t listening _ **are more effective** _ at _ **avoiding** _ all the negatives and escalation than forthright and clear answers would be, especially forthright, clear, non-information-giving answers such as the example I offered. The only way anyone seems to be making the case for repeating the policy or something similar is by painting all encounters with anyone who asks as an encounter with a nutjob that can’t be reasoned with under any circumstances. No, some of them are. And the others --the sane ones–aren’t going to get any better results if try to explain things to them, so there is no advantage to the clerk in risking a Nutjob Encounter. > [@](#): > > It’s also being put forth, without underlying logic that I can see, that it is somehow **better** , _ **more** _ effective, less likely to result in escalation, to repeat something at someone expecting them to somehow read into the repetition the true meaning of the repeater. And I don’t buy that, either. If everyone was so great at understanding what everyone else really means all the time, not only would there be no war, (or maybe there would be nothing BUT war…), there would be no romantic comedies. > > Speak plain. Be straight. Simpler, easier, faster. And crazy will always be crazy…when you treat everyone like they’re crazy, they’ll make you right. I’m sorry, but in my experience, it is more effective. A nutjob needs a way in, a foothold–it takes two to make a conversation. Refusing to engage is the quickest way: hardly anyone ever persists after the third repetition-- instead, they go away or change the subject. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/103 "2009-07-25T18:42:00Z")
**Stoid** , aren’t you’re 2 hours just about up? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/104 "2009-07-25T19:02:47Z")
Can someone link to the lawyer thread everyone keeps mentioning? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/105 "2009-07-25T19:09:58Z")
Well… > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > to make _ **certain types of customer** _s completely wig out and start demanding to know why you are incompetent at your job, what the hell kind of establishment this is… > [@Gustav](#): > > “Why don’t you know? Don’t you think you should know? Isn’t it your job to know? Can you find out? Well why do you _think_ it is? If you don’t know, it can’t be a very good reason. Is there someone else who knows? Why don’t you go find out and come back to me?” > [@Stoid](#): > > crazy will always be crazy… > [@MandaJo](#): > > And the others --the sane ones–aren’t going to get any better results if try to explain things to them, so there is no advantage to the clerk in risking a Nutjob Encounter. > [@Stoid](#): > > .when you treat everyone like they’re crazy, they’ll make you right. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/106 "2009-07-25T19:35:26Z")
Um. Well…you sure did show us. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/107 "2009-07-25T19:37:54Z")
Oh, and for **pedescribe** : [Arrogant Attorney Asshats](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=515561). Hope you have a comfortable seat. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/108 "2009-07-25T20:32:11Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Oh, and for **pedescribe** : [Arrogant Attorney Asshats](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=515561). Hope you have a comfortable seat. You mean to tell me that **Stoid** was the OP of that thread? But…but that would mean she’s being a giant fucking hypocrite here. That can’t be right. I better go lay down. My head hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/109 "2009-07-25T20:55:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **LA** , I think I love you. In a manly, shoulder-punching way. Certainly not in any way that would mean that we avoid eye contact the next day, or, when the subject comes up in future years, we laugh nervously and change the subject > > Certainly not. > > Regards, > Shodan My deepest regards to you too, my friend. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/110 "2009-07-25T21:30:30Z")
Well, **Stoid** , it seems to me that this very thread betrays your alleged innocent curiosity. You have asked, “Why do people, in response to my questions about various policies I find dissatisfying, merely repeat the policy rather than explaining the circumstances of and rationale for its adoption?”. In other words, you have asked, “Why do people have this annoying policy of non-responsive that I don’t like and that frustrates my purposes?”. You assure us that you are not looking to be obstreperous, but are merely inquisitive, and if your interrogatee doesn’t have enough information or comes up with a good-faith but inadequate response, you’ll go on your merry way knowing that you nevertheless did all that you could. But in this thread, no such benign reaction is in evidence. Here we are at post 110 and for every attempted explanation of the librarian’s conduct short of “He should let you, **Stoid** , do whatever it is you want to do,” you have come up with any number of caveats, provisos, and exceptions as to why that explanation doesn’t cut the mustard in your case and that further justification is still required. Not once have you said “Aha! I hadn’t thought of that, I guess I can see where they’re coming from now” or “Hmmm…I don’t like it, but I guess I’m going to have to live with it.” Your claims that you are merely an inquisitive customer of even temperament not spoiling for a fight are transparently false. But, if you do want know why the library has the policy, **Green Bean** ’s [post at 71](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11375286&postcount=71) is almost certainly spot on. Don’t bother replying, I think you know what my answer will be. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/111 "2009-07-25T21:44:22Z")
Kimmy: Why shouldn’t she reply? I’m just curious mind you. I’m not looking to find excuses, loopholes or gotchas. No, the only reason I inquire is the pure shining light of intellectual inquiry. And certainly nothing more. Honest! ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/112 "2009-07-26T00:12:43Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > You have asked, Actually, I don’t believe I did. I believe I simply bitched about it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/113 "2009-07-26T00:21:09Z")
Oh, and a tip: many people…perhaps even most people, respond to different situations, relationships and circumstances in different ways. It’s probable that many, if not most people don’t talk to their boss in a meeting the way they talk to their best buddy at a sporting event. They probably don’t interact the same way with a restaurant server as they do with their doctor. It’s highly unlikely that that most people talk to their children’s teacher the way they talk to their children. Nor do most people talk to people at a party the way they talk to customers at work. So holding up this thread and saying “See? You’re arguing with message board posters! You would have hassled the library clerk exactly the same way!” is more than a little silly. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/114 "2009-07-26T00:23:50Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Um. > > Well…you sure did show us. Really? That’s odd, since it wasn’t about you. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/115 "2009-07-26T00:32:00Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > So holding up this thread and saying “See? You’re arguing with message board posters! You would have hassled the library clerk exactly the same way!” is more than a little silly. I disagree. It shows a pattern of behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/116 "2009-07-26T01:09:11Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Anyone who has ever worked in any customer service job for longer than two minutes knows what an unbelievably bad idea it is to tell a customer, “I don’t know.” Saying "I don’t know’ is the fastest way to make certain types of customers completely wig out and start demanding to know why you are incompetent at your job, what the hell kind of establishment this is anyway, etc. Quoted for truth. Customers just don’t understand (or don’t care) that staff in retail stores are paid pretty much the same whether they work at the supermarket or at K-mart or in a clothing shop. They just don’t care (for the most part) _Why_ the policies are in place, because they’re not paid to care. Also, in the OPs case: Is there some reason you can’t use the internet at home? I mean, you’ve got an iPod, which presumes some kind of computer. If you’ve got a lot of research to be doing on the internet, wouldn’t it be better to be able to do it at home where you can take as long as you need without worrying about librarians having to enforce arbitrary rules? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/117 "2009-07-26T01:12:35Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > I disagree. It shows a pattern of behavior. Yes. A pattern of behavior on a message board. Which is generally where I come to bitch, to discuss and debate - leading to an experience of me that is heavy on the bitching, discussing, and debating. I go to the library primarily to access Lexis, but also to use the books and other materials. Apart from what he can do for me, which he’s informed me is very little, I have sub-zero interested in discussing or debating or bitching about anything with the library clerk. I am firmly committed to avoiding spending my precious time doing anything, ever, that lacks any kind of payoff for me, and harassing the library clerk is the very definition of a payoff-free activity, especially in that setting, when I have far more rewarding activities to choose from. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/118 "2009-07-26T01:15:18Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Also, in the OPs case: Is there some reason you can’t use the internet at home? I mean, you’ve got an iPod, which presumes some kind of computer. If you’ve got a lot of research to be doing on the internet, wouldn’t it be better to be able to do it at home where you can take as long as you need without worrying about librarians having to enforce arbitrary rules? Multi-state Lexis. Shepards citations. Witkin, Matthew Bender, CEB and Rutters…all digital, the latest, downloadable. I can access the basic case database for free online, which is wonderful, but limited. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/119 "2009-07-26T01:20:26Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Multi-state Lexis. Shepards citations. Witkin, Matthew Bender, CEB and Rutters…all digital, the latest, downloadable. > > I can access the basic case database for free online, which is wonderful, but limited. When I was studying law several years ago, the University had a set-up where you could get access to that sort of thing from home via the University library’s online services. Perhaps its something to look into? At least that way you aren’t limited to either two hours at a time or the whim of the librarian on duty… ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089/120 "2009-07-26T01:45:45Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > And completely unreasonable people who are spoiling for someone to take their frustration with life out on will find a way, so giving them crappy answers won’t help. I couldn’t have said it better myself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-a-bitch-because-you-arent-listening/504089.md?page=7)