# I'm not baptized. My MIL prays for my soul. Not sure I'm comfy with that **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860 "2012-03-26T17:49:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/181 "2012-04-02T21:35:22Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Umm Rick Perry, Santorum, Gingrich, The Tea Party and Prop 8 disagree with you. Yep because they represent the majority of Christians :rolleyes: > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The point is that vicarious redemption is as ugly as racism for many people. I don’t get why this is such an issue, me praying for someone is not effecting anyone. Same as I can think racist thoughts but as long as my deeds are not reflective and I cause no harm I don’t see the issue. BTW I am about as anti-racist as it gets. Again why the big deal? I have heard or read nothing to convince me… ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/182 "2012-04-02T23:33:08Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Yep because they represent the majority of Christians :rolleyes: > > I don’t get why this is such an issue, me praying for someone is not effecting anyone. Same as I can think racist thoughts but as long as my deeds are not reflective and I cause no harm I don’t see the issue. BTW I am about as anti-racist as it gets. > > Again why the big deal? I have heard or read nothing to convince me… Please don’t take quotes out of context. It may help fit them into your argument but it does nothing for the debate. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/183 "2012-04-03T20:48:30Z")
Is it just me or is there a lot going on in this thread that has nothing whatsoever to do with the OP? Regarding being ‘prayed for’. I’m an atheist, and in my opinion when somebody who knows I’m an atheist tells me they’re praying for me they’re saying that I’m a moron who hasn’t got a clue as to how the world works. Now, there’s a part of my mind that tries to remind me that the fact is that _they_ are the clueless superstitious fools, but I have a difficult time ignoring their intentions - they are asserting that they are right and so much more knowledgeable than me. I think a good parallel would be to offer ham sandwiches to jews and vegetarians, insisting that their protests are silly. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/184 "2012-04-04T03:58:21Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Regarding being ‘prayed for’. I’m an atheist, and in my opinion when somebody who knows I’m an atheist tells me they’re praying for me they’re saying that I’m a moron who hasn’t got a clue as to how the world works. Now, there’s a part of my mind that tries to remind me that the fact is that _they_ are the clueless superstitious fools, but I have a difficult time ignoring their intentions - they are asserting that they are right and so much more knowledgeable than me. > > I think a good parallel would be to offer ham sandwiches to jews and vegetarians, insisting that their protests are silly. You are being oversensitive, just because someone prays for you does not mean that person thinks you are a moron. Please do not think that people judge you as harshly as you judge others. Praying is a non judgmental, non confrontational and non intrusive thing. What you are suggesting is none of these. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/185 "2012-04-04T15:25:21Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > You are being oversensitive, just because someone prays for you does not mean that person thinks you are a moron. Please do not think that people judge you as harshly as you judge others. > > Praying is a non judgmental, non confrontational and non intrusive thing. What you are suggesting is none of these. Read carefully - this is what I said > [@me](#): > > when somebody who knows I’m an atheist tells me they’re praying for me And yeah, these people have no respect whatsoever for my beliefs. Admittedly, I have no respect for _their_ silly superstitious beliefs either, but somehow whenever _I_ bring that fact to their attention, I’m being rude. When they reiterate it to me and I don’t like it, I’m being ‘oversensitive’. A theist deliberately telling an atheist they’re praying for him is always intrusive, and is usually confrontational (unless the religious person really is that oblivious to the world around them), and believe it or not, has a marked trend towards being judgemental to. Now, as for if they happen to pray _without_ mentioning it, in the privacy of their own homes…that actually can be pretty judgemental too, but it depends on what they’re praying for. “I pray that they don’t get hit by a bus” isn’t judgemental. “I pray that they are able to get a decent grade on their test” is kind of insulting (‘I think it would take divine intervention for you to pass, honey’), but it’s not judgemental. But “I pray that that blind hellbound fool will finally abandon his heathen ways and start going to my church” _is_ judgemental. (_And_ insulting.) When you’re an atheist who isn’t currently injured or in peril, and a theist you know is praying for you, what sort of prayers do you suppose are happening? ---
**Author:** ![JasperST](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/76d3ee/32.png) [@JasperST](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JasperST)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/186 "2012-04-04T19:01:12Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > When you’re an atheist who isn’t currently injured or in peril, and a theist you know is praying for you, what sort of prayers do you suppose are happening? Why would it matter? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/187 "2012-04-04T20:12:13Z")
> [@JasperST](#): > > Why would it matter? I didn’t say it mattered. I said it was judgemental. And it is. Of course, I’m an oversensitive guy (just ask **sisu** ), so I tend to get a little bothered by my own mother thinking that I have some sort of mental defect preventing me from seeing the obvious truth of Mormonism. My intelligence is my only good point so I get a little bothered when people when people insult it. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/188 "2012-04-04T21:10:38Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Read carefully - this is what I said > > And yeah, these people have no respect whatsoever for my beliefs. Admittedly, I have no respect for _their_ silly superstitious beliefs either, but somehow whenever _I_ bring that fact to their attention, I’m being rude. When they reiterate it to me and I don’t like it, I’m being ‘oversensitive’. > > A theist deliberately telling an atheist they’re praying for him is always intrusive, and is usually confrontational (unless the religious person really is that oblivious to the world around them), and believe it or not, has a marked trend towards being judgemental to. > > Now, as for if they happen to pray _without_ mentioning it, in the privacy of their own homes…that actually can be pretty judgemental too, but it depends on what they’re praying for. “I pray that they don’t get hit by a bus” isn’t judgemental. “I pray that they are able to get a decent grade on their test” is kind of insulting (‘I think it would take divine intervention for you to pass, honey’), but it’s not judgemental. But “I pray that that blind hellbound fool will finally abandon his heathen ways and start going to my church” _is_ judgemental. (_And_ insulting.) > > When you’re an atheist who isn’t currently injured or in peril, and a theist you know is praying for you, what sort of prayers do you suppose are happening? +1 My own MIL used to frequently and publicly confront me, insisting that I am really a Christian and I’m only pretending to be an atheist because someone or something offended me at some point and I’m only hurting myself. After politely telling her that my beliefs are different than hers and not negotiable or up for discussion, she would always say “well I want you to know that I pray for you every day.” When enough was enough and the time came to explain that god exists only as a figment of someone else’s imagination and her continued harassment reflects poorly on her and makes everyone present uncomfortable then suddenly I’m the bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/189 "2012-04-05T04:01:53Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I didn’t say it mattered. I said it was judgemental. And it is. > > Of course, I’m an oversensitive guy (just ask **sisu** ), so I tend to get a little bothered by my own mother thinking that I have some sort of mental defect preventing me from seeing the obvious truth of Mormonism. My intelligence is my only good point so I get a little bothered when people when people insult it. Yeah I do think that you are being a bit precious to be honest. Mormonism, now I get it. A lot of these fringe cults [and yes they are fringe] will be judgmental of you as I am of them. Bloody stupid, sanctimoniousness, literal, pretend christians but then again I don’t really care what they think of me, maybe it is time for you to be like a duck and let the water run of your back. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/190 "2012-04-05T04:12:00Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Yeah I do think that you are being a bit precious to be honest. > > Mormonism, now I get it. A lot of these fringe cults [and yes they are fringe] will be judgmental of you as I am of them. Bloody stupid, sanctimoniousness, literal, pretend christians but then again I don’t really care what they think of me, maybe it is time for you to be like a duck and let the water run of your back. [QUOTE=sisu] Please do not think that people judge you as harshly as you judge others. [/QUOTE] No true Scottsman? Your argument is pretty harsh against Mormons…funny how it is fine for you to take offense when it’s not “your” deity. Yet you say when atheists claim the right to be offended they are “being a bit precious” ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/191 "2012-04-05T04:29:36Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > No true Scottsman? > > Your argument is pretty harsh against Mormons…funny how it is fine for you to take offense when it’s not “your” deity. > > Yet you say when atheists claim the right to be offended they are “being a bit precious” I am not offended by anyone’s views, they are after all just a thought construct in someone’s head. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/192 "2012-04-05T04:59:30Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > I am not offended by anyone’s views, they are after all just a thought construct in someone’s head. Until they push them on others or turn them into action 🙂 I actually prefer the Mormon Jesus, at least he knew the earth wasn’t flat and the sky wasn’t a rock dome vs the earlier fan fiction version. Something you would expect from someone in the know. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/193 "2012-04-05T16:14:24Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Yeah I do think that you are being a bit precious to be honest. > > Mormonism, now I get it. A lot of these fringe cults [and yes they are fringe] will be judgmental of you as I am of them. Bloody stupid, sanctimoniousness, literal, pretend christians but then again I don’t really care what they think of me, maybe it is time for you to be like a duck and let the water run of your back. I’m precious like gold and jewels are! Personally I see only slightly more idiocy baked into mormonism than is present in all the other flavors of chrisitainity - Mormons are ignorant of or dimiss the historical details of their sects’ founding and founders; the rest of christianity shrugs off historical details from two thousand years earlier. (We know a little about roman censuses, people.) I did mention my mom’s sect to enable the christian side to understand how I would be unimpressed by HER criticising my ability to think critically; now that you have that understanding, try and wrestle with the fact that as far as I am concerned YOU are no better equipped to critisize my understanding of reality than she is. Mormons, other christians besides the mormons, it’s all the same to me - and I don’t like any of you lot doing it. On an unrelated note, nothing in my experience with Mormons leads me to think that Mormon Jesus is any more enlightened than AntiMormon Jesus. Mormons read the same bible as the rest of you (presuming you haven’t upgraded from King James), and the guy still managed to see the entire world by being taken to the top of a mountain. Sure mormons might try to claim their Jesus knew better, but then again I imagine most other Christians do too. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/194 "2012-04-07T00:27:58Z")
So my point I think has been made. Me praying for you is a gift of love and one should accept it as thus but me forcing my views down your throat or trying to make you feel bad because you do not believe as I do is damn rude and annoys the crap out of me. Take note atheists this extends to you as well. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/195 "2012-04-07T03:48:49Z")
The difference between having an atheist’s views shoved down your throat and a Christian’s is that the former just thinks you needn’t bother getting up early on Sunday. The latter thinks you’re going to hell. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/196 "2012-04-07T07:29:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The difference between having an atheist’s views shoved down your throat and a Christian’s is that the former just thinks you needn’t bother getting up early on Sunday. The latter thinks you’re going to hell. Well not really, a lot of atheists have a mission to bring down religion. At least that is how it feels to us who have faith and remember I am on the side of religion that does not believe in hell.. Shoving your view on someone is pretty rude and arrogant IMO. ---
**Author:** ![genXmalcontent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8baadc/32.png) [@genXmalcontent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/genXmalcontent)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/197 "2012-04-07T07:29:43Z")
> [@diggerwam](#): > > I was raised w/o religion and was not baptized. My mother had some religion but did not feel like people were born w/ original sin so therefore did not need to be baptized. My MIL has said that she prays for my soul. I’m not really comfortable with that knowledge. Obviously I can force her to stop and I’m sure prayer like this happens for non specific people all the time. She’s known me for 20 years. She knows I’m a good guy. I feel like she feels that we aren’t equals. Or else why pray. Please explain it to someone who is very unreligious and also why should I care what she does in the privacy if her own church. I am an Atheist and have a few friends that are Christian. My one has told me that while I do not believe in G-d, he believes in me. In my teens, that would have turned me off. It’s funny what life teaches to us though. I have seen my share of tragedy and the comfort and closure religion and faith brings to the family and friends that are believers. So from my early 20’s to this day, I look at acts like prayer of others as something that brings comfort to those I love. To me they seem a bit silly and the prayer time better spent on somebody who believes, but who am I to tell them how to pray? I have better things to spend that energy on then debating theology. My advice would be discuss you feeling about this issue with your spouse. Examine the relationship you have with MIL. Is this the only issue between you both or are there other bones of contention? Picking you battles is vital for family harmony. Don’t try and figure out if she looks at you as an equal because I don’t know if any parent ever views there son or daughter-in-law as an equal. You’ll just make yourself nuts. Looking at you as a son or daughter as well as a good partner and provider of her child and (if you have) grandchild is enough IMHO. Just my POV. Hope it is helpful ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/198 "2012-04-07T07:53:59Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Well not really, a lot of atheists have a mission to bring down religion. At least that is how it feels to us who have faith and remember I am on the side of religion that does not believe in hell.. > > Shoving your view on someone is pretty rude and arrogant IMO. I expect most religions to eventually crack under their own weight over time, kind of like the Soviet Union. And I agree that shoving your view on someone is pretty rude, and Christian legislators do it practically every fucking day. You know how I know they do it more than atheist legislators? Because on the Federal level there is only ONE uncloseted atheist. And ONE Moslem, and a few Jews, but I don’t have a count. I dunno about the state level, but I’ll bet the percentages are similar. ---
**Author:** ![JasperST](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/76d3ee/32.png) [@JasperST](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JasperST)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/199 "2012-04-07T12:39:18Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I expect most religions to eventually crack under their own weight over time, kind of like the Soviet Union. > > And I agree that shoving your view on someone is pretty rude, and Christian legislators do it practically every fucking day. You know how I know they do it more than atheist legislators? Because on the Federal level there is only ONE uncloseted atheist. And ONE Moslem, and a few Jews, but I don’t have a count. I dunno about the state level, but I’ll bet the percentages are similar. The USSR wasn’t 2,000+ years old though. What Christian law are you forced to obey? And why don’t atheists elect more people? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/200 "2012-04-07T12:54:00Z")
> [@JasperST](#): > > What Christian law are you forced to obey? DOMA. There was also the 18th amendment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860.md?page=11)