# I'm not baptized. My MIL prays for my soul. Not sure I'm comfy with that **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860 "2012-03-26T17:49:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/41 "2012-03-27T04:44:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > \*Non-\*believers aren’t the ones who are doing that. But they are. This thread is full of responses like the ones I see from atheists who won’t set foot in a church. Why not? It won’t do anything to you. By refusing to set foot in a church you’re imbuing a building with some kind of power - the kind of power over you that you profess not to believe in. Further, the MiL didn’t tell the OP she was doing it. So assigning a motive to her is also jumping the gun. To me, being worried that someone’s talking to imaginary beings in their heads is like being upset that I’m closing one eye and crushing your head per _Kids in the Hall_: it just doesn’t matter because it’s imaginary. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/42 "2012-03-27T04:49:25Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > But they are. This thread is full of responses like the ones I see from atheists who won’t set foot in a church. Why not? It won’t do anything to you. By refusing to set foot in a church you’re imbuing a building with some kind of power - the kind of power over you that you profess not to believe in. > > Further, the MiL didn’t tell the OP she was doing it. So assigning a motive to her is also jumping the gun. > > To me, being worried that someone’s talking to imaginary beings in their heads is like being upset that I’m closing one eye and crushing your head per _Kids in the Hall_: it just doesn’t matter because it’s imaginary. To be honest and this is not meant to be personal but I have no desire to go celebrate human sacrifice, or support the concept that through ritualized cannibalism your debts from your evil deeds against others are washed away. Why would I want to? I don’t go to clan meeting either, although as a white male I am sure they believe their causes is meant to help me also. I have nothing against church members but have no desire to “celebrate” that. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/43 "2012-03-27T05:31:34Z")
Well this is IMHO, and everyone’s got an opinion. To me attending is not ‘celebrating’. It’s tourism. You’re missing out on some amazing experiences and awesome architecture. I’ve been lucky enough to visit the Potala Palace, Swayambhunath, St Peter’s Basilica, the Blue Mosque, Hagia Sofia, the Duomo, the Cathedral at Seville, St Paul’s, Westminster Abbey, St. Basil’s, etc. etc. I don’t believe a word of the spiritual aspect of what _any_ of them worship, and therefore these buildings and rituals don’t have any power over me - but because I am unaffected, I can observe and marvel and have my life enriched. Taking what you’ve just said at face value, you can’t even visit Stonehenge. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/44 "2012-03-27T05:40:50Z")
Funny, although my statement would seem more outlandish it is the lesser of our two claims. You said church, most churches are not historically significant at all. To be honest the reality is that I wouldn’t do that these days as I prefer to support causes vs. take vacations. Do “stonehengians” actively practice ritualized cannibalism for the “forgiveness of sins”? If so yes I would avoid their services. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/45 "2012-03-27T05:57:01Z")
You sound more like an “anti-Christian” than a genuine non believer. Who cares if people think wafers turn into flesh? It’s made up. I was once invited to a ‘closed’ Hopi Indian ceremony in the desert. I went, even if I didn’t believe that the dancing and the ritual sacrifice of blue corn and the distribution of candy to the kids would actually help their harvest next year. And I’m fucking glad I witnessed that. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/46 "2012-03-27T06:05:38Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Who cares if people think wafers turn into flesh? It’s made up. So you would go to a KKK rally too would you? Who cares if people think that Black people are subhuman? It’s made up. The problem isn’t that it is made up. The problem is that people actually \*believe \*this made up shit, and they \*act \*as though it is real. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/47 "2012-03-27T06:13:06Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > But they are. No, they aren’t. They are responding to the actions and stated views of other people. > [@](#): > > Further, the MiL didn’t tell the OP she was doing it. Yes, she did. Do you mean she didn’t tell the OP _why_ she was doing it? I agree, she didn’t - only the OP might have a good reading on her personality and why she announced that she is doing it. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/48 "2012-03-27T06:32:12Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > You sound more like an “anti-Christian” than a genuine non believer. Who cares if people think wafers turn into flesh? It’s made up. I was once invited to a ‘closed’ Hopi Indian ceremony in the desert. I went, even if I didn’t believe that the dancing and the ritual sacrifice of blue corn and the distribution of candy to the kids would actually help their harvest next year. And I’m fucking glad I witnessed that. I may sound like it but it is only partly true, it is the religion that this thread is about. I am open to learning about religions but there is very little I can “learn” from the christian church that I can not learn outside of their walls. [Heck I had one heck of a debate with Richard Butler in Denny’s once. But I would never have gone for dinner at his compound.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Girnt_Butler) I can have respect for those I don’t agree with but yes I do have a problem with vicarious redemption, I find it 100% counter to my world view, which is the only way to receive forgiveness is to humbly go and ask the person you sinned against for it. I’m not describing it’s this well… Christians actively get forgiven for being evil by pretending to eat the flesh of their god child, for many of them they can do this every week. In many sects you can kill a young boy, have sex and ejaculate on his body and eat/collect little bits or real cannibalism. And a short time later through the magic of wishful thinking mixed with a little bit of wine and toast all’s good for you. That concept is massively repugnant to me but as I said, it is the church I wish to avoid and refuse to celebrate. The members like most people are for the most part, trying to be good. But that is true of humans in general and is not a function of their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/49 "2012-03-27T06:35:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@jjimm](#): > > > > Further, the MiL didn’t tell the OP she was doing it. > > Yes, she did. Do you mean she didn’t tell the OP _why_ she was doing it? I agree, she didn’t - only the OP might have a good reading on her personality and why she announced that she is doing it. I think he’s referring to this bit from the OP: > [@diggerwam](#): > > Clarity. my wife that she prays for me. she never directly said that to my face. I assume his first sentence was supposed to read: “She told my wife that she prays for me.” Now, you could argue that she said that knowing it would reach the OP’s ears through the wife, but the fact remains that she never actually told her, uh, pray-ee directly what she was doing. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/50 "2012-03-27T06:59:17Z")
**rat avatar** sounds like it’s Catholicism in particular you object to. **Blake** I would observe a KKK rally if it weren’t illegal to do so and I wasn’t in any danger. I’ve seen other interesting and scary political rallies with people I profoundly disagree with in my time: Maoists in Nepal, the PLA marching around in Tibet. But then again hate groups like the KKK aren’t really part of the cornerstone of all human societies that religion is. It’s not an apt comparison. I dunno, maybe it’s because I’ve observed and disbelieved in dozens of different religious structures and ceremonies all over the world that none of it means anything to me. It’s interesting to observe, has an importance in defining and comprehending cultures, but has no significance otherwise. I therefore don’t allow it to have power over my actions, which includes the ability to visit and observe without commuting some amorphous power to that which I’m observing. Most of the ‘atheism’ on the SDMB seems to revolve around Christianity almost exclusively. Seems I can’t quite communicate the independent, comprehensive and catholic [sic] nature of my disbelief in the supernatural parts of _all_ religions, so let’s agree to disagree, and I’ll do my best to bow out of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/51 "2012-03-27T07:20:05Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > **rat avatar** sounds like it’s Catholicism in particular you object to. > > **Blake** I would observe a KKK rally if it weren’t illegal to do so and I wasn’t in any danger. I’ve seen other interesting and scary political rallies with people I profoundly disagree with in my time: Maoists in Nepal, the PLA marching around in Tibet. But then again hate groups like the KKK aren’t really part of the cornerstone of all human societies that religion is. It’s not an apt comparison. > > I dunno, maybe it’s because I’ve observed and disbelieved in dozens of different religious structures and ceremonies all over the world that none of it means anything to me. It’s interesting to observe, has an importance in defining and comprehending cultures, but has no significance otherwise. I therefore don’t allow it to have power over my actions, which includes the ability to visit and observe without commuting some amorphous power to that which I’m observing. > > Most of the ‘atheism’ on the SDMB seems to revolve around Christianity almost exclusively. Seems I can’t quite communicate the independent, comprehensive and catholic [sic] nature of my disbelief in the supernatural parts of _all_ religions, so let’s agree to disagree, and I’ll do my best to bow out of this thread. No, vicarious redemption is the cornerstone of almost all of the major Christian religions The largest self identified religious group in the country is “Christian” if you lump all the various sects together. They are also the only voting block that is large enough to force their backwards late bronze age laws on us non-Christians. Obviously it will be the most commonly discussed mythology. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/52 "2012-03-27T07:40:54Z")
> [@diggerwam](#): > > I can’t stop her. still not used to typing and editing on handheld keyboard. Clarity. my wife that she prays for me. she never directly said that to my face. She’s a nice lady. I’m not going to be confrontational. It just bugs me a little bit that she feels the need to. But then again I really haven’t been exposed to religion too much in my life. It’s just weird to me that apparently she worries about my soul. I’ve gone this long w/o religion. The only way I could see looking into it is if something catastrophic happened. I mean to me its obvious that I’m never going to come around. Like numerous people said. Shes doing it for herself just as much as she’s doing it for me Do you know what the content of her prayers is? “Dear God, please keep diggerwam and my daughter in good health, grant them patience, strength and wisdom. Thank you.” is very different from “Please God, send your Word to diggerwam because he’s such a nice guy and I really don’t want to see him go to Hell when we’re all dead” is very different from “God, send your word to diggerwam before he drags my dear daughter to the evil paths.” I’m a practicing Catholic and I’d find the last one terribly offensive. The first one, I’d appreciate whether they pray to Dios, Allah, Thor, the flying spaghetti monster or say “you’re in my toughts”. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/53 "2012-03-27T11:22:02Z")
Ooh, I just visited the Sainte-Chapelle recently, had amazing stained glass windows. Spiral staircases weren’t as long as Koln Cathedral though. Also, if you get the chance, visit Saint Mary’s in Harrow: the gardeners are all volunteer octogenarians (since I’ve been away at uni anyway). They help with the upkeep of a thousand year old Church… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/54 "2012-03-27T11:26:32Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > **rat avatar** sounds like it’s Catholicism in particular you object to. > > **Blake** I would observe a KKK rally if it weren’t illegal to do so and I wasn’t in any danger. I’ve seen other interesting and scary political rallies with people I profoundly disagree with in my time: Maoists in Nepal, the PLA marching around in Tibet. But then again hate groups like the KKK aren’t really part of the cornerstone of all human societies that religion is. It’s not an apt comparison. > > I dunno, maybe it’s because I’ve observed and disbelieved in dozens of different religious structures and ceremonies all over the world that none of it means anything to me. It’s interesting to observe, has an importance in defining and comprehending cultures, but has no significance otherwise. I therefore don’t allow it to have power over my actions, which includes the ability to visit and observe without commuting some amorphous power to that which I’m observing. > > Most of the ‘atheism’ on the SDMB seems to revolve around Christianity almost exclusively. Seems I can’t quite communicate the independent, comprehensive and catholic [sic] nature of my disbelief in the supernatural parts of _all_ religions, so let’s agree to disagree, and I’ll do my best to bow out of this thread. And this is the type of atheist I can respect. In my opinion, the other type of atheist is such a different kettle of fish that they should have another name. They are not merely without the concept of God, but actually against it. Hence why I like the term antitheist. It’s like confusing the words _amoral_ and _immoral_. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/55 "2012-03-27T13:50:49Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > They are also the only voting block that is large enough to force their backwards late bronze age laws on us non-Christians. Is this silly canard really being trotted anymore? Come on. Not only is that not the Christian position, but even if it were true, they’ve sure done a lousy job of implementing this authoritarian government that frightens you so. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/56 "2012-03-27T14:04:18Z")
**diggerwam** , your MIL is not hurting you or anybody else. I’m also an atheist with religious in-laws, but I would never use any of the smart-ass retorts being offered in this thread in front of them. Why? Because that would be dickish of me. It’s a two-way street. How can you expect anybody to respect your non-beliefs if you don’t respect their beliefs? Live and let live. If MIL’s prayers give her comfort, let her have them and be gracious about it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/57 "2012-03-27T14:06:16Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I assume his first sentence was supposed to read: “She told my wife that she prays for me.” Ah, I didn’t puzzle that out. Yes, in that case we don’t really know what her intent is and there’s no real grounds for the OP to bring it up in conversation. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/58 "2012-03-27T14:08:14Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > \*\* and be gracious about it. Interesting choice of words. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/59 "2012-03-27T14:18:02Z")
> [@hoopified](#): > > Interesting choice of words. 😉 \*\*gracious \*\* (ˈɡreɪʃəs) — adj 1. characterized by or showing kindness and courtesy This is exactly how I meant it. I see some other definitions which refer to condescension, if that’s what your winkie-face is about, but to me the word just means pleasant and polite. Nothing more to see here. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/60 "2012-03-27T14:28:35Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > \*\*gracious \*\* (ˈɡreɪʃəs) > — adj > > 1. characterized by or showing kindness and courtesy > > This is exactly how I meant it. I see some other definitions which refer to condescension, if that’s what your winkie-face is about, but to me the word just means pleasant and polite. Nothing more to see here. Relax. I’m teasing you. The word has an inherently Christian definition and I was teasing you about it. I understood your meaning and, please, continue to use the word as you see fit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860.md?page=4)