# I'm not baptized. My MIL prays for my soul. Not sure I'm comfy with that **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860 "2012-03-26T17:49:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/61 "2012-03-27T14:34:52Z")
No worries. I hadn’t even considered a religious connotation; I guess that’s how out of the faith loop I am. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/62 "2012-03-27T15:12:04Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > The fact that she is attempting to produce an effect is offensive, whether the effect occurs or not. It is telling the recipient of the “prayer” that they an errant child, unable to think for themselves and in need of correction from teacher. Whether the teacher actually exists is rather irrelevant. > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > You are assuming that the whole concept of vicarious redemption, original sin etc.. are not morally repugnant to non-believers. Well, that depends on what effect she is trying to produce. You are assuming that she is praying him to see the light and repent and not spend eternity in hellfire and so on. She might be, but she might just be praying he doesn’t get hit by a bus. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/63 "2012-03-27T15:40:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, that depends on what effect she is trying to produce. You are assuming that she is praying him to see the light and repent and not spend eternity in hellfire and so on. She might be, but she might just be praying he doesn’t get hit by a bus. Go re-read, no place have I said I was against her praying for him, silly yes but unless she is being pushy and rude about it I don’t care. I did not have enough information to say so or not, although I can relate how it is a little silly and unwanted. My comments were in response to “why don’t you just come to church, my may learn something” posts. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/64 "2012-03-27T15:43:01Z")
> [@hoopified](#): > > Is this silly canard really being trotted anymore? Come on. Not only is that not the Christian position, but even if it were true, they’ve sure done a lousy job of implementing this authoritarian government that frightens you so. Umm Rick Perry, Santorum, Gingrich, The Tea Party and Prop 8 disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/65 "2012-03-27T16:03:11Z")
I don’t want to give any more ammunition to people for their wrong beliefs. That’s why I feel I have to speak up as an atheist. Sure, personally, they are doing no more harm to me than a voodoo priest can do with a doll, but the difference is Christianity actually affects atheists and other religious through their influence and political power. If I just keep my mouth shut when someone prays for me, I would be doing a disservice to me and others like me by enabling that behavior through silence. Christians need to hear more people speak up and tell them their beliefs are wrong and unwelcome, or else they’ll be even more emboldened to push their beliefs on people ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/66 "2012-03-27T16:08:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Is this silly canard really being trotted anymore? Come on. Not only is that not the Christian position, but even if it were true, they’ve sure done a lousy job of implementing this authoritarian government that frightens you so. I’m not certain what country you live in, but in the US we have numerous “blue laws” on teh books that have their roots in Christian theology. Proscriptions against pornography, buying booze on Sunday, sex with teh wrong partners or in teh wrong positions or with the wrong kind of economic transaction, etc. We also have well coordinated and sadly effective efforts to destroy the fundaentals of scientific education in ou rpublic schools and text books because they do not support a fundamentalist reading of Genesis. It is neither silly nor (unfortunately) imaginary. The history of this country is filled with examples of dominant religious sects imposing their heterodoxy upon their neighbors. I’m not sure when you think those efforts stopped, but I urge you to pay more attention to the political dialogue in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/67 "2012-03-27T16:13:44Z")
> [@](#): > > This thread is full of responses like the ones I see from atheists who won’t set foot in a church. Why not? It won’t do anything to you. By refusing to set foot in a church you’re imbuing a building with some kind of power - the kind of power over you that you profess not to believe in. I have no problem with sestting foot inside a church. I will even, rarely, decide to take part in a religious ritual because I have social or personal reasons that make it worthwhile for me to do so. What I will not do is allow others to make that choice for me, or to presume that my presence & participation in their ritual is anything other than a specific choice that I must make. The assumption that _must_ take part in someone’s ceremny because it is important to them is not one that I feel obligated to honor. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/68 "2012-03-27T16:15:17Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Christians need to hear more people speak up and tell them their beliefs are wrong and unwelcome, or else they’ll be even more emboldened to push their beliefs on people You don’t see any irony here? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/69 "2012-03-27T16:20:19Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > You don’t see any irony here? Responding to an instigator is not the same, so no. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/70 "2012-03-27T16:48:44Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > My comments were in response to “why don’t you just come to church, my may learn something” posts. Why did you quote _me_, then? ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/71 "2012-03-27T16:53:47Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Umm Rick Perry, Santorum, Gingrich, The Tea Party and Prop 8 disagree with you. What exactly are any one of these proposing that would put us on the road to the theocracy that frightens you? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/72 "2012-03-27T16:54:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why did you quote _me_, then? You claimed Blake had a reason to be offended by the KKK but not by Christians because they are harmless in doing imaginary things. The point is that vicarious redemption is as ugly as racism for many people. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/73 "2012-03-27T16:54:54Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > You don’t see any irony here? Touche ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/74 "2012-03-27T17:00:02Z")
> [@hoopified](#): > > What exactly are any one of these proposing that would put us on the road to the theocracy that frightens you? [Do they not have the news where you live?](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/18/santorum-says-obama-agenda-not-based-on-bible_n_1286649.html?1329616790) [This stuff isn’t exactly a secret](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/25/979298/-The-Tea-Party-Patriots-expose-their-theocratic-roots-and-try-to-infiltrate-our-schools). ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/75 "2012-03-27T17:02:47Z")
> [@](#): > > ]I’m not certain what country you live in, but in the US we have numerous “blue laws” on teh books that have their roots in Christian theology. So what? You can say that about any law of any country at any time? > [@](#): > > Proscriptions against pornography, buying booze on Sunday, sex with teh wrong partners or in teh wrong positions or with the wrong kind of economic transaction, etc. And each of these has been significantly weakened in recent history. If these crazy fundamentalists are so powerful, they sure don’t show it very well. But let’s say your view is accurate. When and where has anyone been stopped from engaging in any of the above activities? With the exception of buying booze on Sunday, of course, and even then, it’s not difficult to circumvent. Maybe Utah is the only place where it might be difficult, but even Utah has relaxed its proscriptions. So, this is just another made up fantasy to further your anti religion agenda. > [@](#): > > We also have well coordinated and sadly effective efforts to destroy the fundaentals of scientific education in ou rpublic schools and text books because they do not support a fundamentalist reading of Genesis. So much blather that I don’t know where to begin. Cite for me one example of one group wishing to replace any part of a science curriculum with Creationism ? > [@](#): > > It is neither silly nor (unfortunately) imaginary. Its both. It’s lacking supportive evidence. > [@](#): > > The history of this country is filled with examples of dominant religious sects imposing their heterodoxy upon their neighbors. And yet here we are. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure when you think those efforts stopped, but I urge you to pay more attention to the political dialogue in this country. This is classic. Since one disagrees with you, that one must somehow be lacking in education or basic political sensibilities. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/76 "2012-03-27T17:04:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [Do they not have the news where you live?](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/18/santorum-says-obama-agenda-not-based-on-bible_n_1286649.html?1329616790) [This stuff isn’t exactly a secret](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/25/979298/-The-Tea-Party-Patriots-expose-their-theocratic-roots-and-try-to-infiltrate-our-schools). And his proposal is what? So he’s patronizing his base. So what? Is this any different than any other politician? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/77 "2012-03-27T17:04:46Z")
> [@hoopified](#): > > What exactly are any one of these proposing that would put us on the road to the theocracy that frightens you? “Does faith matter? Absolutely,” Gingrich said. “How can you have judgment if you have no faith? How can I trust you with power if you don’t pray?” He continued, “the notion that you are endowed by your creator sets a certain boundary of what we mean by America.” Gingrich said that Americans should value religion first, above morality and knowledge. “a secular atheist country potentially one dominated by radical Islamists” "I’m not ashamed to admit that I’m a Christian, but you don’t need to be in the pew every Sunday to know there’s something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military but our kids can’t openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school. As president, I’ll end Obama’s war on religion. And I’ll fight against liberal attacks on our religious heritage. Faith made America strong. It can make her strong again.” —Rick Perry “I am a firm believer in intelligent design as a matter of faith and intellect, and I believe it should be presented in schools alongside the theories of evolution.” —Rick Perry “One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country… Many of the Christian faith have said, well, that’s okay, contraception is okay. It’s not okay. It’s a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be.” - Santoum Do I need to keep going? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/78 "2012-03-27T17:09:44Z")
> [@hoopified](#): > > And his proposal is what? > > So he’s patronizing his base. So what? Is this any different than any other politician? Oh, I see, so they claim it’s what they want to do, and it is the type of laws they try to pass but they really don’t mean it? ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/79 "2012-03-27T17:09:58Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > “Does faith matter? Absolutely,” Gingrich said. “How can you have judgment if you have no faith? How can I trust you with power if you don’t pray?” He continued, “the notion that you are endowed by your creator sets a certain boundary of what we mean by America.” Gingrich said that Americans should value religion first, above morality and knowledge. > > “a secular atheist country potentially one dominated by radical Islamists” > > "I’m not ashamed to admit that I’m a Christian, but you don’t need to be in the pew every Sunday to know there’s something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military but our kids can’t openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school. As president, I’ll end Obama’s war on religion. And I’ll fight against liberal attacks on our religious heritage. Faith made America strong. It can make her strong again.” —Rick Perry > “I am a firm believer in intelligent design as a matter of faith and intellect, and I believe it should be presented in schools alongside the theories of evolution.” —Rick Perry > > “One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country… Many of the Christian faith have said, well, that’s okay, contraception is okay. It’s not okay. It’s a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be.” - Santoum > > Do I need to keep going? Yes you do. Because I asked for a policy proposal, not electioneering bumper stickers. Face it. You have none. You’re just scared of people of faith. So you might have a president who has a different faith than you. So what? ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860/80 "2012-03-27T17:10:58Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Oh, I see, so they claim it’s what they want to do, and it is the type of laws they try to pass but they really don’t mean it? And name aproposed law that you would find offensive on religious/anti religious grounds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-baptized-my-mil-prays-for-my-soul-not-sure-im-comfy-with-that/616860.md?page=5)