# I'm not eating the turkey. Get over it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2004, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433 "2004-11-24T06:52:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![the\_Lady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@the\_Lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_Lady)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/21 "2004-11-24T15:04:08Z")
My sister would have thrown the turkey out already, family harmony be damned. (Course, she’s a little more uh…vigilant on the subject of food poisoning) ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/22 "2004-11-24T15:12:16Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > There’s also fear mongering, or whatever you want to call it. > > You hear people say, "none of us used car seats as kids. **It’s a miracle we’re alice today."** > Yeah, a miracle. Especially considering that almost no one I know was actually IN A CAR ACCIDENT when they were kids. And of those that were, the car seat reduces the risk of serious injury, by. . . exactly what percentage now, assuming you’re using it correctly and not in a fashion that actually INCREASES risk of injury? > > … Speak for yourself, I’m not alice. I remember sitting on my mom’s lap in the front seat quite often. We were never in accidents but my dad had to slam on the brakes a few times and my little head smacked into the windshield because mom’s reflexes weren’t as good as she thought. But even though I am not alice, I’m still okay and I had no … um … something … what we were talking about again? **Duffer:** Compromise, shut up about the turkey and enjoy your brats. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/23 "2004-11-24T15:15:06Z")
> [@Little Bird](#): > > Oh, **T[run]k**? I remember reading health books from the 50’s that advocated smoking for weight loss and advised that drinking a few glasses of wine a night were quite healthy for pregnant ladies. We’ve learned a lot since then. Actually, I believe only US doctors say that pregnant women should abstain from all alcohol for the duration of their pregnancy. I think a glass of wine while pregnant is still practiced widely in many parts of the world. Obviously Alcoholism or habitual drinking is to be avoided at all costs, however. Sam ---
**Author:** ![TommyTutone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@TommyTutone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommyTutone)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/24 "2004-11-24T15:15:10Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > I half-snapped and told her I wouldn’t be eating any, since it’s so very, very wrong to leave raw poultry at room temp. She said not to worry, as it was frozen and therefore safe from bacteria. _She was arguing that since the core was still frozen, the whole thing was frozen._ Debbie Downer called, she wants her schtick back. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/25 "2004-11-24T15:34:39Z")
2-note trombone “wah-wah” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/26 "2004-11-24T15:38:50Z")
> [@velveeta](#): > > Could be worse… You could be forced to spend the holiday in Pittsburgh with _shudder_ the in-laws. \ > So, just eat your skanky turkey like a good boy and be thankful dammit! 😃 I have no clue what your inlaws are like, but Pittsburgh is God’s country. I’ve had many a nice Thanksgiving there. I remember Thanksgiving when I was a kid. At that time, my grandfather owned a partial stake in a small bowling alley in the Mon Valley. He also had nine kids, so Thanksgiving potluck couldn’t be had at anybody’s house. The only convenient place to accomodate all of those people was the bowling alley. So, you’d gorge yourself with all of the traditional, to me, Thanksgiving goodies (turkey, ham, fried chicken, my mom’s pizza, stuffed cabbage, smelt, baccala, side dishes and dessert) and then, fully stuffed, turn on the lanes and bowl a few games. Best. Thanksgivings. Ever! BTW…Go Steelers! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/27 "2004-11-24T15:43:15Z")
Oh, and rigatoni. How could I have forgotten that? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/28 "2004-11-24T16:41:08Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I have no clue what your inlaws are like, but Pittsburgh is God’s country. I’ve had many a nice Thanksgiving there. > > I remember Thanksgiving when I was a kid. At that time, my grandfather owned a partial stake in a small bowling alley in the Mon Valley. He also had nine kids, so Thanksgiving potluck couldn’t be had at anybody’s house. The only convenient place to accomodate all of those people was the bowling alley. > > So, you’d gorge yourself with all of the traditional, to me, Thanksgiving goodies (turkey, ham, fried chicken, my mom’s pizza, stuffed cabbage, smelt, baccala, side dishes and dessert) and then, fully stuffed, turn on the lanes and bowl a few games. > > Best. Thanksgivings. Ever! > > BTW…Go Steelers! That sounds like a fun Thanksgiving- especially for kids. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/29 "2004-11-24T16:47:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Duffer- There are 2 days (3 since purchase) to let it thaw in the fridge and reduce the chances of food poisoning. But, nooooooooo, it has to sit on the counter for 30 hours before refridgeration because, “That’s how we’ve always done it.” I’m surprised my wife lived long enough to marry me. Fridge thawing apparently has significant problems of it’s own these days with the advent of newer more efficient refrigerators. On balance you might be safer with MIL’s agressive defrosting than your extended fridge thaw method. [PREPARING PREPARING A SAFE TURKEY O. Peter Snyder, Jr., Ph.D. Hospitality Institute of Technology and Management](http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Turkey-Thanks.html) > [@](#): > > It is well known that raw turkey and other poultry are highly contaminated with pathogens such as Campylobacter spp. (80-90%), Salmonella spp. (15%), Escherichia coli O157:H7 (5%), and Clostridium perfringens (40%), which survives the cooking process, etc. There is no effective government program to get poultry growers to control these hazards. > > The government has left it up to you, the cook, to be the hazard controller. You must handle poultry safely and destroy the pathogens in order to avoid making your family and guests ill with diarrhea, vomiting, fever, etc. > The following is a step-by-step process for assuring that you control the hazards and that the poultry that you serve will be safe. > > 1. Purchasing the turkey or chicken. > > Frozen chicken or turkey will have slightly fewer pathogens, because freezing does reduce the number of pathogens on the bird, but it does not kill all of them. However, the turkey must then be thawed, which is a critical control point, because the contaminated drip can get all over the kitchen. If you buy fresh poultry or a thawed turkey, be very sure that none of the juice drips on any other foods that you purchase. > > 1. Thawing. > > The USDA and FDA say that poultry should be thawed in the refrigerator. In today’s cold refrigerator, this may take 4 days, and the highly contaminated juice from the bird can easily contaminate other foods in the refrigerator. Poultry should always be thawed on the bottom shelf so that there are minimal chances of cross-contamination. > > Even better, poultry can be safely thawed on the counter. A 12-lb. turkey will take approximately 12 hours to thaw. Put it in a big pan on the counter and let it thaw overnight. As long as the temperature is less than about 50ºF, and the time is less than 24 hours, cooking easily controls the bacterial hazards. You can also thaw in the sink in flowing water. It is safe, but your kitchen, again, becomes contaminated with bacteria. > > When you believe that it is thawed, make absolutely sure. To do this, probe it in the middle to check for any ice. Many foodborne illnesses associated with turkey cooking are due to the fact that the bird is not totally thawed. When it is put in the oven, the middle, frozen part never cooks thoroughly, and pathogens survive. > > In summary, the critical step in thawing turkey is to make sure that the center is thawed and that you minimize getting any juice on kitchen surfaces. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/30 "2004-11-24T16:48:07Z")
They were the best, **Diogenes**. The bowling alley is long gone, and my grandfather passed away earlier this year at the age of 94. This tradition, however, is still maintained my my mom and her sisters. Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve and Easter all feature obscene amounts of food, served at the Sons of Columbus Hall. We usually have about 70 people attending. I’m spending the holiday in Virginia this year, and my in-laws are visiting. Who knows, though. Christmas might be in Pittsburgh. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/31 "2004-11-24T17:13:19Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Actually, I believe only US doctors say that pregnant women should abstain from all alcohol for the duration of their pregnancy. I think a glass of wine while pregnant is still practiced widely in many parts of the world. Obviously Alcoholism or habitual drinking is to be avoided at all costs, however. > > Sam AND, smoking is pretty good for weight loss. It’s not like there aren’t health problems associated with being fat. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/32 "2004-11-24T17:22:07Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [PREPARING PREPARING A SAFE TURKEY > O. Peter Snyder, Jr., Ph.D. > Hospitality Institute of Technology and Management](http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Turkey-Thanks.html) The Food Safety and Inspection Service disagrees with the author about counter thawing: [It says not to do so.](http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Frame/FrameRedirect.asp?main=/oa/pubs/tbthaw.htm) > [@](#): > > A package of frozen meat or poultry thawing on the counter longer than 2 hours is not safe. Even though the center of the package may still be frozen, the outer layer of the food is in the “danger zone,” between 40 and 140 ºF – a temperature range where harmful bacteria multiply rapidly. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/33 "2004-11-24T17:33:17Z")
Counter. Fridge. Whatever. So there’s a difference of opinion. It’s a common enough practice that “half-snapping” at your wife, arguing with your mother in law, and opting out of eating the bird at dinner seems like it’s making a bit too much of a fuss over it. At WORSE, you’re increasing the tiny risk of food poisoning. **Duffer** is acting like the bird is moving into the “dangerous to eat” realm and claiming that it’s “so very, very wrong”. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/34 "2004-11-24T17:34:56Z")
Well, my Tofurkey will have no such problems. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/35 "2004-11-24T18:10:15Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, my Tofurkey will have no such problems. > > 😃 It’ll have different problems entirely, that’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Spree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@Spree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spree)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/36 "2004-11-24T18:12:25Z")
Unfortunately, eating for me is about 90% mental (and, judging from the contestants puking up worms on Fear Factor, for others as well), so once I get it into my head that food looks or smells a little bit funny or sat out a little too long, it’s just not possible for me to eat it. Sorry…can’t do it, I’ve tried and it makes me gag and pretty much kills my appetite. And, trust me, it’s annoying…I recently threw out a whole package of brand new lunch meat because I got it home and it felt kind of slimy and I KNEW it was good but I just. couldn’t. eat. it. ☹ I’m not going to get into how **duffer** should behave with his wife and MIL, but I sure can’t blame him for not wanting to eat that turkey. I would hope that there is a polite way to resolve the situation so that nobody gets too upset. In the future, **duffer** , maybe you’ll consider staying out of the kitchen? What you don’t see happening to the turkey (probably) won’t hurt you! ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/37 "2004-11-24T18:20:27Z")
I’m with the OP on the thawing - when possible, put it some place cold. If you’re uncomfortable with it, I also don’t see a reason why you should be required to eat it, **duffer**. My only comment would be that you should try to not eat the turkey as unobtrusively as possible. In other words, as opposed to yelling, “There’s no way in HELL I’m eating that disgusting meat after it’s been sitting out!”, perhaps the best way to go about it would just be to not eat it, while not making an issue of it. After all, your MIL is taking the trouble to make a Thanksgiving Day turkey for you. If she’s cooking something else, perhaps you could make a point of eating that and remarking on how good it is? Unless, of course, you absolutely loathe her. If you hate your MIL, avoidance might be the best answer. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/38 "2004-11-24T18:44:14Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > It’ll have different problems entirely, that’s true. I feel extremely confident predicting that you’re not going to get sick eating a tofurkey, **Mr. Moto**. Call me Nostradamus ;). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/39 "2004-11-24T18:55:08Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > **Duffer** , do you realize what a friggin’ baby you sound like in that post? > > People have been thawing poultry like that forever. > > And, it’s Thanksgiving with the inlaws. Stop acting like a sissy, and start acting like a family member. > > “Well fine. Thaw it that way. I’m not eating any turkey.” > > Get over yourself, eat the bird the way that whole family has been eating it for years. > > I’m not gonna argue there’s not an increased risk of some toxin in the bird, but do you really think that thawing a bird that way and cooking it properly gives you a LIKELY chance of food poisoning. More likely, you just moved from .05% risk to the .08% risk. THAT’S the kind of thing you’re stinking up their Thanksgiving over. > > Way to sacrifice to keep things running smooth at the holidays. > > How many people do you know have really gotten sick from poorly cooked turkeys? > > Way to ingratiate yourself with the inlaws. > > Ya know, it’s not the drunk dirty uncles that ruin holidays. It’s people like you, that don’t sacrifice a little, don’t let things move smoothly, want to make a scene over every little thing, and just make things that little bit more stressful every step of the way. > > Shut your mouth and eat the fuckin’ bird. Actually, food poisoning is extremely common. It’s impossible to actually identify the level of risk in this instance, but thawing a turkey on the counter is a stupid thing to do and it’s a great way to make people sick. If duffer here eats the turkey, will he get sick? No one knows. But he has every right to only eat food that’s been properly prepared. I don’t think it’s fair to say he ought to risk his health to avoid family disagreement. MIL ought to cook the bird properly. If she doesn’t want to thaw the bird safely because “that’s not how she does it”, I hardly see how duffer’s the one causing family difficulty. Food poisoning happens all the time, and even though most of the time you just have a mild “stomach flu”, it does kill people sometimes. Even healthy people. There’s risk associated with everything, but there’s also stupid risk. Thawing a turkey for hours on a counter is a stupid risk. Besides, brats are better than turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433/40 "2004-11-24T19:00:11Z")
This whole thread just proves that no matter how you handle it, turkey is simply too much of a health risk for civilians to handle, and it should be left for the hazmat squad to dispose of. Pass the pumpkin pie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-eating-the-turkey-get-over-it/276433.md?page=3)