# I'm Not Lovin' the IRS right now....... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2006, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389 "2006-04-12T15:54:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/61 "2006-04-13T04:53:50Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Which is, succinctly, why it will never be changed. :mad: Yeah, I know it’s a pipe dream. But a guy needs something to look forward to, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/62 "2006-04-13T10:59:40Z")
> [@Plynck](#): > > (snipped some stuff) What I don’t know is how one does the opposite. Say you don’t have enough state taxes withheld this year, and owe them some money. In theory, that should be picked up the next year as a deduction (just as a refund is taxable income), but I don’t recall seeing the line for it. I’ve always had a state refund so I’ve never looked. On Schedule A, line 5 is state and local taxes, either income or general sales taxes. When you write down the amount for state income tax paid it is the total of the amount withheld from your paycheck, plus the amount of income taxes you had to pay to the state with the previous year’s return. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/63 "2006-04-13T13:43:51Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > What states are some of you living in where you pay federal tax on a state refund?!? > > Seriously, based on Wisconsin and North Dakota here’s how it works in my experience for the past quarter century of working. I live in Wisconsin and I get a 1099 from the state for my previous year’s refund. I have our federal taxes figured out pretty closely, we overpaid by only $35 last year, but for some reason Wisconsin’s system is harder to manage and I always end up overpaying the state, last year to the tune of nearly a grand. As far as people bragging about their big refunds, I always just say," Oh, so you overpaid your taxes by $x? Why?" ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/64 "2006-04-13T14:28:42Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > I hear they have decaf coffee now that’s just as yummy as the regular stuff. Just sayin’. Cite? Eh, nevermind. Coffee is just a caffeine-delivery system. Good taste is a bonus. Decaf is the _real_ sign Facism exists in America. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/65 "2006-04-13T14:40:06Z")
Good post, duffer. The Canadian system works in essentially the same manner. (We do get until April 30, at least.) It’s frustrating and stupid. I can’t really think of any good reason why you couldn’t write the tax code in about ten pages, changing the brackets a bit to help poor people mnore than are helped now, with a point form summary: - Everyone who lives in Canada is liable to pay income tax. - Any money you receive from jobs, self employment, or investments is taxable. Gifts, prizes and gambling winnings aren’t, unless you’re a professional gambler, and then it’s your job, so pay up. - Inheritances are not taxed. We taxed all that when the person was alive. You deserve to not have ghouls steal your dead mother’s money. - To figure out how much you owe: 1. The first $12,000 in income, plus another $8,000 for every person who lives with you and doesn’t have an income, like kids or disabled relatives or senile parents or whatnot, isn’t taxed. 2. The $30,000 above everything in (1) is taxed at 20%. Don’t worry about federal vs. provincial taxes, we’ll distribute it for you. And this includes EI and CPP, which were always taxes anyway and it was a joke to pretend they weren’t. 3. Everything above that is taxed at 35%. If you don’t like it, too bad. - You don’t pay any tax if you make a profit on selling the house you live in. If you buy and sell houses as investments you have to count that, but if you actually live there that doesn’t count. - And yeah, there’s value in capital gains exemptions, actually. So the first half million’s tax free. - Taxes are the same even if you’re over 65. You don’t get some special rate anymore, you goddamn freeloading mossbacks. - There are only five things, besides the $8000 you get for a dependent, you can deduct: 1. Education expenses. If you pay to go to college or university you can deduct all that. By all means get educated. Private elementary school, however, you get no deduction for. Our public schools are good enough for your little princess. 2. Day care costs. If you’re contributing to the economy by working we’re not going to ask you to tie the kid up in the attic. But include a receipt. 3. Work expenses. If you’re self employed it’s only fair to tax you on your net, not gross. Include your receipts. 4. Medical expenses above $1000. We’re not animals, for Christ’s sake. Include receipts. 5. We’ll leave the RRSP deduction in because we don’t want you bitching to us when you’re 77 years old that you want free money. We’ve put up with that for too long. - You have to file your tax return by April 30. If you own anything by all means take your time but we’ll charge interest. There. What more needs to be said? ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/66 "2006-04-13T14:51:49Z")
[quote=duffer] Why is it that we pay money to an interest-bearing account for a year, only to get a refund of only the priciple? And why is it that if we owe, the interest on the debt kicks in April 16? And, of course, the late fees? The interest earned on withholding should more than make up for making an April 15 filing deadline and October 15 due date work out. The thing is. . .the government is, presumably, spending the money they’re making by earning interest on our overpayments. If they paid us back the principal we over-paid AND the interest, well, that would just come out of our taxes the next year, don’t you think? Also, if you OWE the government money, should you have to pay them interest on your underpayments? Last year we owed about $2000. I don’t remember Uncle Sam dunning me for the interest on the taxes we SHOULD have paid the previous year. Besides, the government holding our money interest-free is more of a progressive tax, which I’m all for. I’m sure the republicans could convince John Q. Kansas that it’s coming out of his pocket, but the people it really jacks are the people who pay a lot. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/67 "2006-04-13T15:14:46Z")
> [@Mr. Roboto](#): > > Not Drunk, just see’n Red. Taxes have gone-up since last century,alot of undeserving people to support ( not our seniors, they beleive the gov has turned it’s back on them) AND The War Machine Rolls-On… Congress sets the Tax rate, Congress and your State Legislature decides who to support, and the War machine is mostly GWB’s fault. None of those can be laid at the feet of the IRS. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/68 "2006-04-13T15:25:35Z")
I couldn’t agree more with the sentiment that it is pretty silly to loan the gov’t money for a year and then claim the refund as some sort of gift from the Feds. However, it is also silly to exaggerate just how much is being lost to that loan. In the end, people who get a refund _do_ lose money by lending it to the gov’t interest free. However, the loss is usually pretty damn small overall. A quick approximation for how much you lose is your refund \* 1/2 of the APY. If you get a refund of $1000 and can find a 3% APY, you’d lose about $16. Big whoop. I’d rather “find” $1000 come January 20th (when my refund comes) than have to pay come April 15th. Having to pay _is_ the smarter choice. But isn’t is so overwhelmingly better that I’m willing to have to hassle with adjusting my withholdings every year to compensate for changes in family, income, tax rates, etc. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/69 "2006-04-13T15:31:44Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Why is it that we pay money to an interest-bearing account for a year, only to get a refund of only the priciple? And why is it that if we owe, the interest on the debt kicks in April 16? And, of course, the late fees? The interest earned on withholding should more than make up for making an April 15 filing deadline and October 15 due date work out. > > . I don’t give a shit if Bill Gates is taxed the same percentage on income as I am. This is income. If he makes $200 million and is taxed the same percentage as me, I’m happy with it. Quit the fucking tax breaks and just tax fairly. Quit giving breaks for this and that. Quit making people jump through hoops to justify keeping what they earn. I lose the mortgage interest deduction? Gates loses some other deduction that more than makes it up. For us and for thousands of others. > . All paying 15%. (Arbitrary, I don’t think it needs to be that high.) > . 1. You don’t “pay money to an interest-bearing account for a year”. Or, if you do, then it’s your own interest paying account and then you do get the keep the interest (but if you owe, the IRS will want some penalties). I will assume you are a W-2 wager-earner. Every two weeks, your EMPLOYER (not the IRS) takes withholding out of your pay. They then hold on to it for a period that depends on various things but is usually paid to the IRS quarterly. Thus, your EMPLOYER, not the IRS, could earn interest on your witholding. Once sent to the IRS, it is put into the General fund, and is more or less spent immediately. The IRS does NOT put your money in “an interest-bearing account for a year”. The Government spends it as soon as they get it. Perhaps your Employer might earn some interest, but the IRS doesn’t. 2. If you _do_ owe, the interest _can_ kick in earlier, see “Estimated Tax Penalty” sometime. 3. You can have a graduated and progressive tax rate schedule and still have no deductions. The con-artists who push a “_flat_ tax” (so called because the Middle class will have _flat_ wallets) have conned dudes into thinking the only way to have a simple tax is to have one “flat rate”. The tax breaks are there because the majority of Americans want them. 4. It’d be around 28% Not even close to your 15%. The rich would pay less, the very rich would pay a LOT less, and \*the middle class would pay more. \* Different “flat tax” proposals treat the poor in different ways, they could end up paying even less than they do now (a “negative” tax), or even pay more. But every single “revenue neutral” “flat tax” proposal that I have seen has the Middle class paying more, and the rich less. :dubious: ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/70 "2006-04-13T15:36:29Z")
> [@Mr. Roboto](#): > > The Nazi regime is alive and thriving in the U.S… > Tax’ed up the rectum and no relief in sight. Hide little children, the Stormtroopers will come and take mommy & daddy away. Amerika’s cancer within, Bush’s SS. Bush didn’t create the IRS. It’s been a boil on our collective asses in some form or another since 1862. I just love it when someone lets their unreasoning, irrational hatred of Bush blind them to reality. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/71 "2006-04-13T16:47:47Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I just love it when someone lets their unreasoning, irrational hatred of Bush blind them to reality. Hey, no argument there, but considering the source, how do you feel when someone lets their blind, unreasoning loyalty to Bush blind them to reality? ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/72 "2006-04-13T21:22:39Z")
> [@Bill Door](#): > > On Schedule A, line 5 is state and local taxes, either income or general sales taxes. When you write down the amount for state income tax paid it is the total of the amount withheld from your paycheck, plus the amount of income taxes you had to pay to the state with the previous year’s return. Many thanks. I knew something like that had to exist, but I never had to look for it. I’m thinking about bumping up my exemptions again, so I may need this next year. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/73 "2006-04-17T14:38:48Z")
I haven’t done my own taxes in years. I did them this year. It is now twice as complex. There was some line on the form regarding some other form, so I had to go and look up what the hell the form was for. It was so people who housed Katrina victims could get a little break. I have no problem helping out those people but does it have to be done through the friggin tax code? Something that maybe .0001 percent of filers will even be able to claim? This is not the fault of the IRS. It is the fault of the baboons that write the tax code. I pit them more than the IRS. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/74 "2006-04-18T03:06:31Z")
> [@Happy Wanderer](#): > > I haven’t done my own taxes in years. I did them this year. It is now twice as complex. There was some line on the form regarding some other form, so I had to go and look up what the hell the form was for. > > It was so people who housed Katrina victims could get a little break. I have no problem helping out those people but does it have to be done through the friggin tax code? Something that maybe .0001 percent of filers will even be able to claim? This is not the fault of the IRS. It is the fault of the baboons that write the tax code. I pit them more than the IRS. My theory? Anyone whose job it is to write tax laws is not to be allowed to use a paid preparer. While in an airport today I heard on CNN that 75% of the senate finance committee, whose job it is to oversee the IRS, uses paid preparers. If they need professionals, it’s too complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/75 "2006-04-18T03:56:15Z")
Call me Magda G., for I just kissed my sweet little savings account and put it to bed knowing that it will never wake up again. Terrible terrible year for me tax-wise: I knew that it would be because I took some money out of an IRA (no choice, had to) and received some untaxed (but not untaxable) income from articles and from my employer for moving expenses and the like, but even so I underestimated by more than $1000 how much I’d end up paying. Bye bye two little rent boys, one Mint-in-Box Johnny West quick draw, two daytrips to Atlanta and Season 3 Arrested Development DVDs- it would have been great, but at least now my money is out doing some good by paying for special investigators and keeping faux Katrina victims in motels and the like. Next time any of you drive on an interstate or go visit a national park remember: I’M THE ONE WHO PAID FOR IT, SO YOU OWE ME!!! So bring me back a Stuckey’s nutlog or an Abraham Lincoln’s head pencil sharpener or something. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/76 "2006-04-18T04:02:20Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Next time any of you drive on an interstate or go visit a national park remember: I’M THE ONE WHO PAID FOR IT, SO YOU OWE ME!!! So bring me back a Stuckey’s nutlog or an Abraham Lincoln’s head pencil sharpener or something. I remember being told (not by you) that living in North Dakota I’m getting your money. Can anyone tell me where my money is going? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389/77 "2006-04-18T04:10:37Z")
My tax pain is uncommonly bad. I pay taxes to two different countries, and that’s just uncool - but I’ll be God damned if I end up with a penalty. In fact, I also have to fill out each year the Treasury Department form that declares I’m not a terrorist, drug smuggler, or money launderer, otherwise I risk something like a half-million dollar fine. And my employer switched HR software this year and by default changed everyone’s US withholding (W4) without telling us, so I had an extra exemption added I didn’t catch. Thus, I paid so much in taxes I almost got an extra penalty. And after two more attempts to get my W4 changed, they still haven’t got it right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-lovin-the-irs-right-now/352389.md?page=3)