# I'm not racist, you are, for bringing it up! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 19, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986 "2020-11-19T18:17:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/1 "2020-11-19T18:17:35Z")
> [@Am I missing something here? (re: reopening of bars, etc... now)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-here-re-reopening-of-bars-etc-now/922356/624): > > WOW. First off you divided the world into Asian American and white people which is a simplistic and rather racist view of the world. All the other groups that form New York are non existent. Secondly, you assume other businesses weren’t trashed by the pandemic. This is just the latest version of this vomit-inducing argument I’ve seen on the boards (and elsewhere). It generally works like this: 1. Person A does or says something with racially charged implications. 2. Person B points out that Person A’s position conveniently ignores the experiences of a demographic of people. 3. Person A says, "Ah ha! You mentioned demographic X as being separate from the rest of the people. That makes YOU THE RACIST!!! I don’t even know what to say about it to make this a thorough pitting. These days, so many supposed arguments are based on non-sequitur name-calling that it’s hard to know where to begin in refuting this kind of vacuous nonsense. I mean: “identifying Asian Americans as a demographic that might at times have a unique experience relative to everyone else” should never be a position that needs defending, but according to some, it makes you racist. Yes, the poster Magiver was responding to compared Asian Americans to white Americans, lumping everyone who is non-Asian into the “white” category, which was imprecise and a bit lazy. But it’s clear what the intent of their argument was, as it’s clear that Magiver is himself looking for any excuse to justify ignoring the Asian American experience. In this case it’s a bizarro combination of “you didn’t specify enough diversity in your statement, which is racist” along with “reporting that Asian Americans experienced specific and targeted economic impacts means you’re ignoring everyone else, you racist!” Go fly a kite, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/2 "2020-11-19T18:30:57Z")
To me this is like those people who say “I’m so not racist that I don’t even see colors and everyone who does is racist”. The opposite of racism isn’t blindness, willful ignorance, or stupidity. You don’t have to be racist to talk about race. Yes, race is a social construct. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You aren’t being a racist for talking about it, and ignoring race doesn’t make the issue go away. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/3 "2020-11-19T18:59:30Z")
In his defense, Magiver is a hateful imbecile. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/4 "2020-11-19T19:03:36Z")
I don’t think we gave his plan to fight Covid by airdropping millions of gallons of hand sanitizer on Manhattan and then parachuting doctors on motorcycles into the hot, but wet, zone enough of a chance. It coulda worked! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/5 "2020-11-20T01:52:09Z")
Well, “I’m not racist” is a contradictory assertion. It is like saying “I’m very smart”: these are not assessments one can legitimately make about oneself but can only demonstrate for others to see. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/6 "2020-11-20T05:04:01Z")
Nitpick: There is a sense in which “I’m not racist” is a statement of ideological position rather than an attempt at factual assessment. Just as one can say “I’m not Christian” to mean that they consciously disbelieve in the divinity of Jesus or other tenets of Christian doctrine, one can say “I’m not racist” to mean that they consciously disbelieve in claims of white racial superiority or other such racist positions. Of course, whether the professed non-racist actually manages to live up to their claims of non-racism in their own behavior and reasoning is, as you note, a matter on which other people may disagree with them. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/7 "2020-11-20T19:00:34Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > … so many supposed arguments are based on non-sequitur name-calling that it’s hard to know where to begin in refuting this kind of vacuous nonsense. > … You cannot refute that which is not an argument, merely a vacuous assertion. All you can do is laugh in their face and walk away shaking your head. Back the Ye Ancient Dayes of Olden vBulletine we had someone here whose sig line went something about “The only response to arguments like that is scorn”. I’ve utterly butchered the quote, but “scorn” was the payoff word. With luck somebody, ideally that poster, will recognize what I’m talking about and fill it in rightly. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/8 "2021-08-29T00:37:00Z")
More evidence of Magiver’s absolute, brutish, numbskull idiocy is on display on this thread about creating a deadly hazard to mailbox vandals, with the bullheaded assertion that laying a deadly trap is fine, so long as it is an “inactive” object, whatever that means. > [@The legality of deterring mailbox baseball](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646): > > On a recent (rerun) episode of CSI, part of the plot involved a homeowner who, tired of having his mailbox destroyed by teens playing [mailbox baseball,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mailbox_baseball) installs a mailbox filled solid with concrete. The result is that the next vandal to strike the mailbox with a bat (from a moving car) suffers severe injuries to his arm and shoulder, and the driver of the car ends up crashing and killing both himself and the injured mailbox hitter. On the show, the homeowner was charged with (IIRC) negligent h… He won’t listen to anyone’s explanation of how liability and intent actually works, of course, just repeating his position. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2021, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/9 "2021-08-30T11:56:20Z")
What drives me nuts is that I sometimes get **Magiver** and **Martin\_Hyde** confused. They are both conservative, but **Martin\_Hyde** is reasonable, intelligent, thoughtful and has a brain. **Magiver** , uh, isn’t, isn’t, isn’t, and doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2021, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/10 "2021-08-30T12:58:37Z")
That’s crazy (but so is Magiver!) . . . but then I confuse Martin Hyde and Sam Stone… ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2021, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/11 "2021-08-30T13:09:56Z")
It must be confusing reading them go back and forth in the Afghanistan thread. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/12 "2021-08-30T14:34:35Z")
I sometimes confuse **Martin\_Hyde** and **Martini\_Enfield** , and then I remember they’re both racist fuckheads and I don’t actually give a fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/13 "2021-08-30T21:10:57Z")
I confuse them too. They share the “Martin” and the “\_”. I’m always a bit embarrassed about that. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/14 "2021-08-31T07:34:15Z")
Plus, if you put out a mailbox with solid concrete, I thought you were required, by law, to have a way of having your mail delivered. Wouldn’t that get you in trouble with the USPS? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/15 "2021-08-31T07:46:36Z")
Only if the concrete has set ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/16 "2021-08-31T15:06:47Z")
I would disagree with the position on the mailbox but don’t see how it’s pit worthy. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-racist-you-are-for-bringing-it-up/925986/17 "2021-08-31T15:30:21Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > This is just the latest version of this vomit-inducing argument I’ve seen on the boards (and elsewhere). It generally works like this: > > 1. Person A does or says something with racially charged implications. > 2. Person B points out that Person A’s position conveniently ignores the experiences of a demographic of people. > 3. Person A says, "Ah ha! You mentioned demographic X as being separate from the rest of the people. That makes YOU THE RACIST!!! I don’t know how widely the term is used, but I call this “Schrödinger’s Racism”. It’s the premise that the racism only exists in an indeterminate state until someone actually mentions it, and then it’s _that_ person’s fault for collapsing the waveform. If you hadn’t said anything, there wouldn’t be any racism, and therefore _you’re_ the real racist here! The idea that racism doesn’t exist unless you explicitly say it out loud is bizarre and stupid, but then people espousing racism and pretending it’s **not** racism are not exactly scrupulous in establishing the validity of their arguments. For example, Jim Crow laws may not have always been explicitly racist in their drafting, but their intent and execution sure as fuck were.