# I'm Not \[Re: Secrecy in LDS Temples\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2001, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-re-secrecy-in-lds-temples/68021 "2001-06-08T04:49:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2001, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-re-secrecy-in-lds-temples/68021/41 "2001-06-12T12:57:12Z")
Vanilla’s a she. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2001, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-re-secrecy-in-lds-temples/68021/42 "2001-06-12T13:29:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Vanilla’s a she. \*\* Oops! Difficult to tell with those baggy clothes… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2001, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-re-secrecy-in-lds-temples/68021/43 "2001-06-12T16:14:59Z")
> [@](#): > > What’s the deal with this baptism-by-proxy after death thing? Does the LDS Church gather obituaries and baptise everyone they can? It doesn’t quite work like that. The rules are that you submit names for your own family, and not other people. This is why LDS people are so big on genealogy and family history. The idea is that you do the work for your own ancestors, and that includes not only baptism, but sealing all those ancestors together into one big family chain, so your whole family is attached and you can be with them forever. > [@](#): > > what’s the LDS view on the Old Testament? I think we may be much more interested in the OT than some other Christian denominations. We study it quite a bit. However, we also believe that a lot of material has been lost. The LDS scriptures in [_The Pearl of Great Price_](http://scriptures.lds.org/pgp/contents)address that (go ahead and read some of it; it’s quite short). One thing that sets us apart is our belief that Adam, Abraham, Moses, and other OT prophets knew about the coming of Christ and, in fact, knew at least as much about the gospel plan as we do. There’s so much to talk about under this topic, in fact, that it would take a very long post indeed. You may be able to find good info at [http://www.lds.org](http://www.lds.org). Er, Grimpixie, I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say with the ‘not-quite-God’ part. I believe that God is God, our omnipotent and omniscient Heavenly Father. Jesus is God the Son, and the third is God the Holy Ghost, but they are separate beings whose power flows from the Father (see scriptures like [John 5:22-27](http://scriptures.lds.org/john/5/22,27#22), [John 10:18](http://scriptures.lds.org/john/10/18#18), where power, commandments, etc. are given to the Son from the Father). I guess I would say that they are slightly subordinate to Him. I’ve never seen scriptures where Jesus gave the Father a commandment, for example, while Jesus does everything the Father tells Him to do. The technical details aren’t really a big point of interest to most LDS, so I can’t say I’ve ever done a big study of this. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2001, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-re-secrecy-in-lds-temples/68021/44 "2001-06-12T19:44:19Z")
Well, you see, “a branch of christianity that teaches they do know the truth”. The Mormon missionairies told me that ALL other christian denominations have some error, but LDS faith has NO error. Its the Only truth. Thats the pot calling the kettle black as I see it. Andors, you are so christ-like. I love ya.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2001, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-re-secrecy-in-lds-temples/68021/45 "2001-06-12T20:58:06Z")
Funny someone should mention that the LDS mission had scaled back on their door to door activities. It had been over 20 years since I’d allowed in two missionaries that gave me a copy of the Book of Mormon, I was only in my 20s then myself. Then just last month two young missionaries knocked on my door. I invited them in for a drink of water since it was hot but they wouldn’t enter because I didn’t have a man in the house. They wanted to make an appointment to come back later and talk. I chuckled a little about that since there is no man in the house but my 9 year old son anyway. I was polite when I sent them away. It had been a long time since I’d seen them pretty much anywhere in their dark suits, walking or riding their bikes in pairs. I was a little suprised to see them in the neighborhood that day. (Wonder if they’re the same two guys, naw, they’d be at least 40 by now.) Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![DaveW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DaveW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveW)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2001, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-re-secrecy-in-lds-temples/68021/46 "2001-06-13T06:03:13Z")
Grimpixie wrote: > [@](#): > > . . .Either you must accept that sacrifice in your place and commit your life to following Him, or reject it and choose your own way - the choice is yours to make. and > [@](#): > > Can’t answer that one. All I know is that faith in the sacrifice of JC in my place on the cross garuntees my salvation. As for the rest of the world, that is up to God. And a good thing too… Ah, okay. There are, of course, plenty of people who claim to know the will of God, and _would_ say I’m headed straight to Hell for not accepting Jesus, so thanks for the absence of Judgement! 🙂 Oh, and > [@](#): > > All I know is that faith in the sacrifice of JC in my place on the cross garuntees my salvation. brings up another great-debate-type point. People have asked me why I don’t go around killing people willy-nilly since I don’t believe in Hell. The question is, of course, ridiculous, since it implies a populace held in check by little more than fear of eternal damnation. But I’ve always wondered about the opposite: if nothing more than your faith in Christ’s sacrifice guarantees you salvation, then what’s keeping _you_ from committing all sorts of horrible deeds? Obviously, there’s more to it than _just_ faith. > [@](#): > > Here I am forced to reveal my difference with the LDS church - my belief is that God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) is one entity, revealed in three persons. The LDS position seems to be “equal but different” i.e divine, but not-quite-God (correct me if wrong y’all) which is the root of the Christian/non-Christian debate. \ The nature of the Trinity is most assuredly not “religion 101” kinda stuff, and obviously not at all easy to explain to _anyone_, even the devout. For example, if Jesus and God are one-in-the-same, why’d he die at all? God must have ‘allowed’ Himself to be killed, because if not, He would have shown Himself to be not so omnipotent, after all. Of course, since God is, in any incarnation, ineffable, then who the heck really knows? > [@](#): > > Your rellies are missing out on a great deal by tossing out the Hebrew Scriptures - Jesus was Jewish and a Pharasee (in his theology, although not his practice) and used the Hebrew Scriptures as the basis of all his teaching on earth. Yeah, but my relatives are among those who also talk about how the Jews killed Jesus. One thing you’ve gotta remember about the more conservative fundamentalists is that they talk a good game about compassion and Jesus’s love, but if you’re not family and you’re not some sort of Protestant, the hypocrisy shines through. A couple of years ago, the Pope issued a Bull which stated that Darwinian evolution has to be seen as more than “just a theory.” My relatives’ response? “The Pope is an idiot.” That’s verbatim. > [@](#): > > His emphasis may have shifted, but that doesn’t invalidate what went before. Many Christians neglect the Hebrew Scriptures because they find it hard to deal with the images of God that they find there, and all the “legal jargon”. I cannot deny that reading it raises some difficult questions, but that is no reason to throw it all out. My aunt-in-law, who speaks in tongues on a fairly regular basis, told me to start with the NT, and learn it really well before reading the OT. She has a lot of disdain for the violence in the OT, and considers the authors less-than-divinely inspired. At the same time, she glosses over some of the contradictions in the NT, yet considers the Words there to be handed down from Above. > [@](#): > > As for the questions re B.C. citizens and intelligent life elswhere in the universe, see above - not our position to say… As above, there are plenty who _will_ say, gladly. > [@](#): > > The problem with this point of view is that vanilla seems to follow a branch of Christian faith which teaches that they do know the truth. If you want to be truly open minded then you must allow him to be arrogant and self-righteous without prejudice!! Perhaps you missed the ‘militant’ in “militant agnostic.” This fake branch of agnosticism isn’t about being open-minded at all, it’s massively prejudicial. Your claim that you know you’re saved because you’ve accepted Christ? A truly militant agnostic would slap that down as an arrogant belief that you somehow know the will of God, and can predict His Judgement when your time comes. genie wrote: > [@](#): > > It doesn’t quite work like that. The rules are that you submit names for your own family, and not other people. This is why LDS people are so big on genealogy and family history. The idea is that you do the work for your own ancestors, and that includes not only baptism, but sealing all those ancestors together into one big family chain, so your whole family is attached and you can be with them forever. Ah, okay, thanks. So you’re basically saying that all I’ve gotta do to ensure that I’m not baptised into the LDS faith is to make sure that none of my descendants ever baptise me. Ever. \< Big, silly 🙂 \> vanilla wrote: > [@](#): > > Thats the pot calling the kettle black as I see it. It would be if Grimpixie were a Mormon. But he _isn’t_, so whatever those LDS missionaries told you has little bearing on Grimpixie’s own point of view. Or are you considering everyone who disagrees with you (er, “distances” theselves from you) to be a Mormon? ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2001, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-re-secrecy-in-lds-temples/68021/47 "2001-06-13T07:50:20Z")
**DaveW** - Your aunt is an idiot. That’s verbatim. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2001, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-re-secrecy-in-lds-temples/68021/48 "2001-06-13T21:13:02Z")
Well, although this is way after the fact, I just wanted to say DaveW, you weren’t communicating _that_ badly, as I understood every point you made, and had the same thoughts myself when reading the other posts. I kept thinking “how did Monty get _that_ out of what was said?” So call it 5 to 2. 😉 Monty, I did think you did a great job with the column itself, it was just some of your responses in the thread that came off as overreacting. But I’m willing to concede it was perspective. Carry on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-re-secrecy-in-lds-temples/68021.md?page=2)