# I'm not sure who to pit, but someone is getting pitted (Building collapse) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 7, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393 "2013-06-07T16:24:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/1 "2013-06-07T16:24:36Z")
So, as some of you may have heard, there was a [building collapse in Philadelphia](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/07/philadelphia-building-collapse/2399255/) a couple of days ago. Six people were killed. Someone screwed up. The city inspectors said the building had no violations, but I have to wonder. The owner of this property is a ‘second buyer’ of these buildings - a person who got it on the cheap from the Rappaport estate (i.e. former buddy and kickback fellow of Rappaport). Given that legacy I consider this another example of that slumlord asshole murdering people from the grave (one of his properties killed a judge with a falling sign in the early 90’s). The present owner? No prize package, because he was the one who hired the demoltion crew. The demolition crew? Well, I am no expert in demolitions, but someone took a video them knocking down the building and put it on youtube, taken mere days before the collapse [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/pPnMSpSUHbA/maxresdefault.jpg "Demolition of the old "Hoagie City" building") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPnMSpSUHbA) I have to wonder since it seems to be one guy with a hose and one guy operating something looking like its more for digging trenches than knocking things down. From the article the bid amount was ridiculously low. And of course there is the City of Philadelphia, which lightened demolition rules 13 years ago when it went on an orgy of knocking down old slums but never re-tightened them. Guh. I had family members just a block away from this collapse when it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/2 "2013-06-07T22:33:08Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > The demolition crew? Well, I am no expert in demolitions, but someone took a video them knocking down the building and put it on youtube, taken mere days before the collapse > > [http://youtu.be/pPnMSpSUHbA](http://youtu.be/pPnMSpSUHbA) Perfectly normal way of taking a building down. _But,_ the protection of the public around that is _grossly_ inadequate. At the very least, that entire lane of the street should have been closed, and the entire area fenced off. ETA: And the excavator operator doesn’t look like he’s very good at it. (Former construction inspector, who has participated in a large number of demolitions.) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/3 "2013-06-08T00:15:26Z")
Also as mentioned at the time of the incident, no apparent bracing of the wall that looms over the store to make sure that it would fall into the site instead of outward if it failed before being taken down properly. Heck, the excavator looks from this angle at risk of taking out the store’s awning, when the sign comes crashing down it lands in the store’s sidewalk, not in the demolition site’s. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/4 "2013-06-08T01:04:56Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Heck, the excavator looks from this angle at risk of taking out the store’s awning, when the sign comes crashing down it lands in the store’s sidewalk, not in the demolition site’s. If they’d closed off the street like they should have, the excavator could have been located at the proper angle to do the job right. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/5 "2013-06-08T01:58:01Z")
The street is Market street, which is a major thoroughfare, so closing the street would have been tricky. Some folks with engineering civic engineering backgrounds have told me that the roof should have been take off first. That building in the background is the Mutter Museum, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/6 "2013-06-08T02:05:03Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Perfectly normal way of taking a building down. _But,_ the protection of the public around that is _grossly_ inadequate. At the very least, that entire lane of the street should have been closed, and the entire area fenced off. ETA: And the excavator operator doesn’t look like he’s very good at it. > > (Former construction inspector, who has participated in a large number of demolitions.) Why are they watering the building? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/7 "2013-06-08T02:20:27Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Why are they watering the building? Too keep dust down mostly. I remember reading that dust can be a health risk and a nuisance, and then dust also cuts down productivity, too much dust can make operators lose sight of where to land the next hit. The more I see of the work that was being done, the more I think that it was reckless to have a business that is next to an unsecured wall to continue to be open, while the demolition team had not removed the top sections of the virtually shared wall yet. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/8 "2013-06-08T02:25:57Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Too keep dust down mostly. Oh. Duh. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/9 "2013-06-08T02:48:58Z")
They’ve indicted the contractor on s[ix cases of involuntary manslaughter](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57588323/philadelphia-building-collapse-leads-to-charges-against-equipment-operator/) I hope more attention is being paid to the owner of the building, who obviously took a supremely lowball bid that would be laughed off by most owners. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/10 "2013-06-08T02:51:22Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > If they’d closed off the street like they should have, the excavator could have been located at the proper angle to do the job right. > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > The street is Market street, which is a major thoroughfare, so closing the street would have been tricky. Yes, that point on Market is at the entrance to downtown. But the video was taken Sunday so maybe they could have pulled it off that day. As it is the excavator is itself on the sidewalk (notice the lamp post). See that green assemby between Water Hose Guy and the building? Subway stairs, occupying almost half the width of the sidewalk. Would have probably needed a longer-reaching machine sitting on the right traffic lane in order to work from a better angle. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/11 "2013-06-08T04:20:02Z")
The latest building to be excavated near me was done at night, when blocking off a lane of traffic wasn’t as big a deal, business around were closed, and there was no foot traffic. Of course, I’m sure that wasn’t the cheapest way to go. It was neat to watch from the El platform nearby. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/12 "2013-06-08T17:01:02Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > The street is Market street, which is a major thoroughfare, so closing the street would have been tricky. The location is irrelevant. Buildings in very busy areas are routinely demolished safely. Of course doing so requires hiring a demolition company who has expertise in doing close-quarters demolition, not only in the taking the building down part, but also in the logistics part. I’ve been wondering why the Salvation Army store was allowed to stay open. The mayor said "“Buildings get demolished all the time in the city of Philadelphia with active buildings right next to them. … They’re done safely in this city all the time.” But the article also stresses that Philadelphia has very loose laws in this regard. Do adjacent buildings stay open during demolitions in other places? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/13 "2013-06-08T18:19:14Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > The location is irrelevant. Buildings in very busy areas are routinely demolished safely. Of course doing so requires hiring a demolition company who has expertise in doing close-quarters demolition, not only in the taking the building down part, but also in the logistics part. > > I’ve been wondering why the Salvation Army store was allowed to stay open. The mayor said "“Buildings get demolished all the time in the city of Philadelphia with active buildings right next to them. … They’re done safely in this city all the time.” But the article also stresses that Philadelphia has very loose laws in this regard. Do adjacent buildings stay open during demolitions in other places? Location is irrelevant to safety concerns, but with the bid put in by this crew being just $10,000 there is no way they could afford the permits to close off the street. This is why the building owner should be facing charges as well - he had to know this bid was shit. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/14 "2013-06-08T19:20:42Z")
[news article here.](http://gawker.com/officials-say-philly-demolition-operator-was-high-durin-512091942) Apparently the “demolition operator” (the guy running the machine?) tested positive for drugs (pot and codeine). They’re looking for him right now. The article also claims “multiple federal safety violations,” so the contractor who employed the demolition operator is going to be in deep shit, too. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/15 "2013-06-08T22:22:21Z")
Hammurabi’s code addressed this situation: > [@](#): > > 229 If a builder build a house for some one, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built fall in and kill its owner, then that builder shall be put to death. > > 1. If it kill the son of the owner the son of that builder shall be put to death. > > 2. If it kill a slave of the owner, then he shall pay slave for slave to the owner of the house. > > 3. If it ruin goods, he shall make compensation for all that has been ruined, and inasmuch as he did not construct properly this house which he built and it fell, he shall re-erect the house from his own means. [http://eawc.evansville.edu/anthology/hammurabi.htm](http://eawc.evansville.edu/anthology/hammurabi.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/16 "2013-06-09T01:14:37Z")
So, if the house falls in and kills the daughter of the owner, no problem? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/17 "2013-06-09T03:54:40Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > So, if the house falls in and kills the daughter of the owner, no problem? Seems it. But we do have this gem: > [@](#): > > 1. If a man strike a free-born woman so that she lose her unborn child, he shall pay ten shekels for her loss. > > 2. If the woman die, his daughter shall be put to death. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/18 "2013-06-09T08:53:23Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Why are they watering the building? It keeps dust from going everywhere. ETA: Or what the poster after you said… ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/19 "2013-06-13T12:40:29Z")
The city inspector who inspected the building 2 weeks before the collapse has [committed suicide](http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Reports_Collapse_LI_inspector_found_dead.html). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393/20 "2013-08-06T18:01:18Z")
BUmping this: I’m a couple weeks late with this but there is video from a SEPTA bus that shows the actual collapse: [http://www.philly.com/philly/video/BC2553632541001.html](http://www.philly.com/philly/video/BC2553632541001.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-not-sure-who-to-pit-but-someone-is-getting-pitted-building-collapse/660393.md?page=2)