# I'm now boycotting any food product that says anything about "Carbs" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 5, 2004, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263 "2004-04-05T00:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/221 "2004-04-13T02:43:13Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > On the other hand, you seem quite willing to take away what the people succeeding on Atkins have achieved so far, simply because you consider it a scam and won’t hear that people are actually lowering their body fat and weight using the program. Oh, I just thought of something else actually as I re-read this post - and it raised a very salient point. That is, the lack of empirical evidence regarding the “success rate” of the Atkins diet - or for that matter, the “Lo Fat” diet of a decade ago etc. Here’s my logic dillemna… all of the published evidence concludes that rates of “overweightness and obesity” are higher than ever before in the Western World. Surely, we can agree on this, yes? OK, my logic hurdle is this - how can we empirically measure (let alone even identify or define) the success of the Atkin’s diet in comparison to other notable diet programs which have come before it? You see, (and jayjay please note I’m not singling you out here - you merely raised the salient point) my maths tells me that more and more people than ever before in the Western World are having weight problems. And while it’s very true that some people are showing great results on the Atkin’s program - the maths would indicate that more people than ever before need to do something about their weight. Hence, how can we ever possibly measure how successful Atkin’s is, if the numbers of people with weight problems keeps climbing regardless? So, as I said, I applaud the success that some people have had with Atkins. That’s great. The problem seems to be far more entrenched than even the good Doctor himself could foresee however. In an earlier post, I opined that innately the problem is that we, as a culture in the Western World, are lazier than ever before. Certainly, this explains the explosion in numbers. Hence, I tend to fall back on my credo of “work harder in your general life” because ultimately, the maths would indicate that THAT is the true source of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/222 "2004-04-13T02:59:14Z")
I’m glad this Atkin’s craze has come about. It makes it so much easier to find no- and low sugar food. Not that I need to lose weight- far from it. I beleive that refined sugar slowly destroys our bodies over time, and try to avoid it whenever I can. Before this Atkins craze ( whatever happed to proper diet and excercise----you know, taking responsibility for your actions?) it was difficult to avoid carbs while eating out and traveling. Now it’s incredibly easy. ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/223 "2004-04-13T03:17:13Z")
Have been lurking mostly but just had one quick question… Why this assumption that Atkins is a _lazy_ alternative? The book does insist that exercise is crucial and a requirement of the diet long term, and the diet itself involves more preparation and thought than the common fast food options many busy people use. Instead of 2-3 convienience meals or snacksper day, maybe one real prepared meal or snack- nearly everything I put into my mouth has to be prepared by myself ahead of time. Even snacks usually involve some pre-planning/ preparation. I get up about an hour earlier than I used to in order to prepare a decent breakfast- when I come home from a 12 hour shift, I still spend 30 min or so making a low carb, healthy dinner. We have a gas station next to work, before Atkins snack options were limitless. Now, I can buy a pickle, a string cheese or a small bag of nuts. If I want to have more variety- it will take a little more thought and effort than running next door with some small change. I’m also surprised that no one has pulled out this study…while it was a small study and the results not entirely conclusive- it does suggest there might be a little more to it than calories in, calories out. [http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/diet.fitness/10/14/lowcarb.mystery.ap/](http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/diet.fitness/10/14/lowcarb.mystery.ap/) ---
**Author:** ![Inoshiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Inoshiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inoshiro)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/224 "2004-04-13T04:31:50Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > but the bottom line is this: > It does not matter to me if the weight loss is from ketosis, smaller portions, my working out, or if Morgal the friendly dreleb comes by each night with a 1920’s style fat burning ray and zaps my ass. I am losing about 3lbs a week, I’m not hungry, my energy level has gone through the roof, I have to go buy new smaller clothes, and my friends are telling me I look great. > Arguing as to whether it is ketosis or smaller portions is the, _how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?_ argument for the new millennium IMHO. The correct answer is of course **Who give a fuck?** Well of course it matters. That’s the whole point. The real source of the weight loss is important to know. If Atkins people are really finding that their low carb meals simply make them feel fuller and thus they eat fewer calories, while they are also beginning an exercise program then they are in a regime where their energy input is less than their daily output. The difference has to be made up somehow according to the law of conservation of matter and energy and this difference is made up by breaking down fat. My diet right now is mostly vegetables, chicken, fish and whole grains. Probably lower in carbs than the average American diet of candy, bread, potato chips, soft drinks and booze but still higher in carbs than Atkins or other low-carb diets. It’s also very low in calories. I find it filling since most of what I eat is bulky and I eat frequently. This, I think is the key to _any_ diet that actually works, it must in some way suppress hunger. Low carb diets seem to and so does a “cave man” type diet like what I eat. I remain unconvinced, however, that there is any special magic in what Atkins advocates. A reduction in energy intake combined with an increase in energy output should always result in weight loss. You probably _could_ lose comparable weight on a diet of pure sugar if the calories were sufficiently limited. Such a diet would be devoid of micro-nutrients, would leave you feeling hungry all the time, and might lead to diabetes and other health problems but it would “work” in a sense. Finally, someone brought up the Inuit. The poster was using them as an example of how you can live without carbs. No doubt this true. However, I was thinking of them in a different way. The Inuit, to my understanding, were\* more or less always on a diet similar to the “induction” phase of a typical low-carb diet. So how did they stay alive?!? Think about it. If eating like that is supposed to make you lose weight, even on a high calorie diet, even without doing much exercise, how did the Inuit stay alive? The problem is compounded by the fact that the Inuit lived in a very rigorous physical environment of extreme cold that increases the body’s caloric requirements considerably. They were far from sedentary as well. Compare this lifestyle to that of a typical computer programmer on the Atkins plan sitting in his cubicle at 20C doing mostly nothing. - The Inuit diet I am referring to is, of course, that which they had before much contact with white society. ---
**Author:** ![Inoshiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Inoshiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inoshiro)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/225 "2004-04-13T05:07:01Z")
> [@Thaumaturge](#): > > I’m glad this Atkin’s craze has come about. It makes it so much easier to find no- and low sugar food. Not that I need to lose weight- far from it. I beleive that refined sugar slowly destroys our bodies over time, and try to avoid it whenever I can. Before this Atkins craze ( whatever happed to proper diet and excercise----you know, taking responsibility for your actions?) it was difficult to avoid carbs while eating out and traveling. Now it’s incredibly easy. When all is said and done this is probably what it comes down to. Modern humans eat **too much fucking sugar**. No faster way to get more useless calories. Like a hit off the dietary crack pipe. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/226 "2004-04-13T05:42:58Z")
> [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > Then explain to me, in simple terms, how it is that I am consistently producing ketones in my urine. Tell me how I have managed to keep myself in ketosis, if it’s nothing to do with my intake. Explain to me slowly, because I’m one of the Atkins loonies and clearly incapable of thought, how it is that I managed to lose my first 25 pounds while eating between _3000_ and _4000_ calories a day and not changing my activity level whatsoever. I’ve thought about this post. I’ve thought about it for quite some time. My only response, after much private debate is as follows… given that 1 pound of fat equates to 3,500 calories - this implies that you have shortfallen your calorie intake by a grand total of 25 x 3,500 calories over say, what, 25 weeks? This means that, on average, you’ve undereaten by an average of 500 calories per day - while still eating 3,000 or 4,000 calories a day - while maintaining a moderately sedentary lifestyle and doing little exercise (in your own words). Either (a) you were somehow burning up an average of 3,500 to 4,500 calories per day. Possible, but given your description of yourself, not likely. Or (b), you’ve plucked the 3,000-4,000 calorie figure out of the air to try and win a debating point. To that end, to verify same, and further, to conclude that the lack of carbohydrates WITHIN that 3000-4000 calories is legit, give us a typical example of your daily food diary at the time. After all, if you can claim you were consistently eating between 3,000 to 4,000 calories a day, this implies you were keeping track of what you were eating. I’d love to see how you were getting that many calories into you while ALSO keeping your carbohydrates to under 20 grams or so a day. Man, that’s an AWFUL lot of fat and protein per day. Well over a pound and a half in the abscence of carbohydrates. Best of luck. I have no doubts you’ve lost weight Bambi, but as to the claim regarding your calorie intake? I call bullshit. (Assuming you don’t have either Crone’s Disease, or a tape worm). The same challenge goes out to you BiblioCat. Give us an example of one week’s worth of your food diary too. Go on. You’re so keen to credit the Atkin’s diet with your success. Well, I bet you London to a Brick that if you were to show us your weekly food diary (with no bullshit involved) we’d find your calorie intake is low enough to be the reason for your weight loss - not the ketosis magic bullet myth you’re so ready to ascribe the success to. As I said, ketosis is a function of under-eating. It’s when the body dips into fat reserves. If you’re undereating, by virtue of ramping up your exercise levels, and reducing your calorie intake - the reality is that millions of people have succeeded in the same way without needing to credit the Atkin’s Program therein. Indeed, I’d wager your diet is almost identical to mine from what I’ve read thus far. The difference between us is that I don’t feel the need to cheer and barrack for some Doctor dude. I’m pretty sure that if you had discovered your current diet by yourself say, 10 years ago, you’d be adopting much the same philosophy as me I dare say. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/227 "2004-04-13T05:46:27Z")
So, **Boo** , how do we know _you_ are telling the truth about your experiences? After all, if it’s a fair question for **Biblio** , it’s fair for you? As for why her Ketostix turn purple, it’s because they’re coming into contact with ketones. That’s what Ketostix _do_, fercrissakes, they turn purple when they come into contact with ketones, just like Azostix turn green when in contact with BUN. That’s why they’re useful diagnostic tools used in medical laboratories. If the only thing the sticks are coming into contact with besides the air is her urine, then it’s safe to say that her urine contains ketones. Ketosis does indeed cause weight loss. In fact, that’s how we most often catch diabetes in animals. The animal has been hungry all the time, and then, suddenly, it just started losing weight even though its feeding regimin hasn’t changed one iota. Then it stopped eating yesterday, and it’s practically down to skin and bones. Why? It’s in diabetic ketoacidosis, a particular type of ketosis found in poorly controlled diabetics. The ketosis first melts the weight off despite unchanged caloric intake, then kills the appetite. It’s a medical fact–ask any doctor or veterinarian about it. Is it safe to deliberately induce ketosis? I don’t know. It’s not something I’d care to try without a lot more research into the long-term effects. We tend to think of ketosis as a bad thing associated with all sorts of health problems, but near as I can tell, those problems are caused by the disease that induced the ketosis rather than actual effects of the ketosis itself. I certainly haven’t seen any hard scientific evidence that ketosis is in and of itself dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/228 "2004-04-13T06:11:59Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > So, **Boo** , how do we know _you_ are telling the truth about your experiences? After all, if it’s a fair question for **Biblio** , it’s fair for you? Sure, I’ll scan some photos within the next day or two. My credentials won’t be in dispute. But that being said, I don’t see anyone arguing that high-energy athletic persuits do NOT result in fat loss. Ergo, your challenge is a bit of a strawman actually. The contention which I’ve challenged in my post above is that someone can maintain a high calorie diet by virtue of lots of fats and proteins, and still lose weight by minimising carbohydrates. And I’m here to say that such a claim goes against the laws of physics. I have no doubt that Bibliocat doesn’t count calories. However, she does count the amount of carbohydrates she’s eating - which by another name is watching watch she’s eating. I’m arguing that the laws of physics win here, not the laws of marketing. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/229 "2004-04-13T06:45:08Z")
> [@Boo Boo Foo](#): > > I’ve thought about this post. I’ve thought about it for quite some time. My only response, after much private debate is as follows… given that 1 pound of fat equates to 3,500 calories - this implies that you have shortfallen your calorie intake by a grand total of 25 x 3,500 calories over say, what, 25 weeks? This means that, on average, you’ve undereaten by an average of 500 calories per day - while still eating 3,000 or 4,000 calories a day - while maintaining a moderately sedentary lifestyle and doing little exercise (in your own words). My math has me 51 lbs lighter today than I was on 7 Jan, which is an average of 3.4 lbs \* 3500 = 11,900 kcal deficit a week, given simple in and out calculations. As I said earlier, I no longer eat as much as I did at first. However, to make you happy, I would be ecstatic to post my food journal. My earlier estimate was a mistake – at no time was I ingesting 3000 calories a day every day, but there were days when it went that high; there were also days around 2000, and a couple when I was sick around 1500. There were also a more than one outlier exceeding 4000 calories. My average intake early on was closer to 2700 kcals daily. Currently, that has dropped to between 1800 and 2200 calories a day. At a deficit of 11,900 calories a week, I would have to have daily deficit of 1700kcals, which I find unlikely. Early on, that would indicate a BMR of 4400; currently it would indicate a BMR of 3900. As promised, [here](http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=miketurk&Year=2004&Month=0&Day=5) is my daily food journal, starting on 5 Jan 04. Please ignore the weights as entered as well as the goal information – focus on the nutritional breakdown. Also be advised that early January was a low-intake time for me, because I was sick quite a bit. I really picked up in [February](http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=miketurk&Year=2004&Month=1&Day=1). If you don’t believe that I am the person who owns that journal because of the name difference, you might want to check my email address, which is the same. Moreover, please ignore the calories burned section – it generates that automatically based on your weight. As I’m sure you’re aware, one’s BMR cannot be scaled linearly based solely on weight; it depends more on composition. Also frustrating is that the food summary here does not pull out fiber like it does in the private view. Furthermore, pay no attention to the “Current Weight / Goal Weight” section. I do not regularly update it, as I use an Excel spreadsheet for the purpose. Shall I give you that as well? For the record, I require no images of you as an Olympic cycler. You’ve never lied here in the past (that I am aware of), so I trust you. In fact, until this thread, I’ve usually liked and agreed with what you’ve posted. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/230 "2004-04-13T06:49:15Z")
BTW, if you’re going to read my journal, do so in the next day or two, because I will be pulling it from public view after then. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/231 "2004-04-13T07:26:19Z")
> [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > I hate doing this, but “Me too.” Like I said higher up, I just don’t understand the amount of vitriol leveled at Atkinsers. Why the fuck does it matter to you (not _you_, **Rick** ) how I’m losing weight? Why do you care so much about it? Can’t you just be happy for me, or at the least indifferent? Well I hope you weren’t directing that at me, because the vitriol certainly didn’t start with me. I’d say it’s coming from _both_ sides of the fence, if anything, more from the pro-Atkins people. You wanna see vitriol - check out annplurabelle’s last response to me. Sheesh. :rolleyes: You keep forgetting that this is a thread about someone who is sick of hearing about “carbs” all the time. If you just want to be “left alone” to do your Atkins thing, it puzzles me why any of you would even have bothered to open this thread. It’s quite obvious from the title that this isn’t the “Up with Atkins” thread. ## Tell ya what - if you find a post from me in this thread where I directed “vitriol” at anyone who didn’t do so _first_, I will gladly apologize. > [@](#): > > Also not to mention the decreased activity level of modern American as compared to 1828. Moreover, blowero, many Atkinsers (yours truly included) will occasionally eat unrefined flour products, such as whole wheat bread or flaxseed rolls. If you want to roll out the “dawn of civilization” line, you might want to pin down when the majority switched from relatively unprocessed, high-fiber grain products to modern, bleached white flour, as well as when they switched from relatively unrefined sweeteners to pure sugar crystals. Why would I want to do that? It has nothing to do with my point. I think you will find that most nutritionists will _agree_ that limiting bleached flour and refined sugar is beneficial. That’s not the point of contention. The point of contention is whether to severely restrict carbohydrates, as per the Atkins diet. Conventional wisdom says to eat a balance of lean meat, green vegetables, fruits, nuts, and WHOLE grains. There is no such thing as a refined sugar/bleached flour diet. NOBODY thinks that’s good for you. You’re arguing against a straw man. The DIFFERENCE between conventional wisdom and Atkins is that Atkins recommends severely limiting ALL carbohydrates. This argument you guys keep throwing around about how you “occasionally” eat carbs is just a red herring. You know perfectly well that Atkins is about cutting carbs. It’s really disingenuous to confuse the issue like that. Eating carbohydrates in a sensible way does not mean stuffing your face with white bread, candy, and soda. Again I will make the point that there is a middle ground between _that_ and Atkins. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/232 "2004-04-13T07:50:33Z")
> [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > My math has me 51 lbs lighter today than I was on 7 Jan, which is an average of 3.4 lbs \* 3500 = 11,900 kcal deficit a week, given simple in and out calculations. Mate, by any yardstick, that’s absolutely fantastic. I truly offer you my most heartfelt kudos and congratulations. Honestly. I sincerely hope you rate of weight loss continues unabated. It’s a genuinely impressive achievement. Most importantly, I hope one day you’ll take up a sport or some activity which you would never have dreamed of being able to partake in even just a year ago. When that happens I reckon you’ll never go back to your old ways. As I like to say, the trick in life is to replace bad habits with good ones. > [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > In fact, until this thread, I’ve usually liked and agreed with what you’ve posted. That’ll happen again. Threads like this are threads which can easily get people fired up because they have quasi lifestyle judgement overtones, but I’m still that same guy you’ve always known. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/233 "2004-04-13T07:50:35Z")
I really don’t have time for you, annaplurabelle. Your style is to litter the thread with so much hogwash and insults, that to address every point is a virtual impossibility. So I will mention a couple things and then leave you to your preaching. > [@annaplurabelle](#): > > Address my points with something other than hyperbole and I will document as needed. You’re just throwing out massive amounts of bullshit and then saying “Care to dispute this?” The onus is on the one _making_ claims to prove them. And then **Rick** tag-teams you with _this_ gem: > [@](#): > > Will you take the word of Vanderbilt University? > Quote: > Diabetes rates rose a striking six percent in 1999, the last year for which the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has complete national statistics. Since 1991, the incidence of diabetes has increased by 57 percent. This makes diabetes one of the United States’ fastest growing health problems. > > Need any more straw for that strawman you are building? I don’t know what Rick _thinks_ he proved, but it’s not all the stuff anna was saying. > [@](#): > > ## anna: > > ## Quote: Now even as I write this, I predict someone will come along and say, “Well I do Atkins and don’t eat vegetables; I only eat meat”, and this will be followed swiftly by someone else saying, “Atkins isn’t just eating meat, you didn’t read the book”, and we’ll be right back where we started. > > And it has already been pointed out to you in this thread that this is not a valid argument. You admitted it was a valid point then, so why are you bringing it up again? Utterly wrong. I conceded that conflicting claims about Atkins from people who possible don’t understand it do not PROVE that Atkins’ claims are wrong. But that’s not the argument I’m making here. Show me where in the above quote I say it _proves_ Atkins’ invalidity. I was _trying_ to stave off the inevitable onslaught of non-sequiturs and conflicting claims that just tend to muddle the train of thought. Obviously, it didn’t work. I don’t _have_ to prove the claims are wrong. If you make scientific claims, YOU have to prove they are RIGHT. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/234 "2004-04-13T07:52:55Z")
And now, since everyone seems to be working themselves into a lather, I thank you all for an enjoyable discussion. See ya later… ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/235 "2004-04-13T08:28:06Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > You wanna see vitriol - check out annplurabelle’s last response to me. Sheesh. :rolleyes: [My “vitriolic” post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4748594&postcount=199). Poor baby, how horrific it must have been for you… 😉 > [@blowero](#): > > I really don’t have time for you, annaplurabelle. Your style is to litter the thread with so much hogwash and insults, that to address every point is a virtual impossibility. So I will mention a couple things and then leave you to your preaching. Translation: After hours of frantic searching, I haven’t been able to find a credible cite to counter the cites you’ve presented. I will now litter this thread with my usual obfuscations in an attempt to save face after my own bullshit has been called (Hey, it works for Ann Coulter, doesn’t it?). > [@blowero](#): > > I don’t _have_ to prove the claims are wrong. If you make scientific claims, YOU have to prove they are RIGHT. Read my cites (or **Bambi’s** ). A quick google will back them up (as you must know by now). Where are your counter-arguments? > [@blowero](#): > > And now, since everyone seems to be working themselves into a lather, I thank you all for an enjoyable discussion. See ya later… Buh-bye. Come back when you’ve learned something about nutrition/biochem or are capable of telling the truth (both would be nice, but I don’t want to be overly optimistic). ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/236 "2004-04-13T10:48:07Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > You keep forgetting that this is a thread about someone who is sick of hearing about “carbs” all the time. If you just want to be “left alone” to do your Atkins thing, it puzzles me why any of you would even have bothered to open this thread. It’s quite obvious from the title that this isn’t the “Up with Atkins” thread. Gee, maybe it was the way the OP was worded: > [@pizzabrat](#): > > I’m now boycotting any food product that says anything about “Carbs” > …damned if I let **the Atkins freaks** take over. My bolding. Ya think? :rolleyes: Meanwhile, yet another [cite](http://www.theomnivore.com/WheatIndustryMadatDr.Atkins.html) to exonerrate “the Atkins freaks”: > [@](#): > > **Wheat Industry Mad at Dr. Atkins** > > After years of enjoying unquestioned status as the foundation of a healthy diet, it appears the value of grains is coming under increasing scrutiny not just by consumers but health officials as well. Cereal grains have long held pole position on the USDA Food Guide Pyramid, but in Washington D.C. federal health officials are starting talks on revisions to the 11 year-old pyramid. > > **Cereal grains were not even a part of the human diet until the onset of the agricultural revolution around 10,000 years ago, and researchers have documented the exemplary health of numerous populations where grain consumption was mninimal or non-existent. The most commonly eaten grain, wheat, ranks alongside milk as the food most likely to induce allergic reactions.** > > The protein quality of cereal grains is quite poor when compared to that from animal sources such as meat and eggs, and the antioxidant and phytochemical content of grains cannot even begin to compare with that of vegetables and fruits. > > Still, the pyramid puts bread, cereals, rice and pasta ahead of all other food groups as the foundation for healthy eating, recommending 6 to 11 servings a day. Some are now pushing for changes that would move grains off the foundation, and cut back servings, a proposal that is not exactly music to the ears of those that market cereal grain products. According to industry spokespeople, **this new threat to their corporate bottom line is all Dr. Atkin’s fault.** > > “I’m very much concerned,” said Mark Dirkes, spokesman for Interstate Bakeries, the nation’s largest wholesale baker and the maker of Wonder Bread. **“He (Atkins) has run a very effective campaign. That just can’t be good for our industry.”**… > > …The claim that the Atkins Diet has gone unchallenged shows a stark disconnection from reality - after all, the medical and nutrition orthodoxy has repeatedly, and often virulently, attempted to discredit low carbohydrate diets. Despite such attempts, the popularity of these diets continues to grow, and for one simple reason - they work. > > **First hand experience is usually far more convincing than propaganda from vested interests** , and increasing numbers of people all around the world are ignoring the tired old edicts of health authorities and nutritionists who are still committed to the high-carbohydrate, low-fat paradigm. > > **However, the old guard isn’t going to give up without a fight** ; the Wheat Foods Council is instituting an “educational campaign” aimed at nutritionists and the medical community. **The strategy will involve trotting out all the usual, and unfounded, criticisms about low carbohydrate diets** , claiming that Americans who follow the Atkins diet increase their risk of cardiovascular disease, high cholesterol, kidney damage and some cancers. **If you haven’t already done so, read the article [Common Myths About Low Carbohydrate Diets](http://www.theomnivore.com/commonmythsaboutlowcarbdiets.html) to find out why such claims are nothing short of absurd.** My bolding again. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/237 "2004-04-13T12:52:06Z")
> [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > I appreciate your concern, but it’s misplaced. I had already broken my psychological addiction to food long before I started Atkins, but I still felt hungry all the time. Instead of eating like I would have, I just went hungry, until my willpower ran out and I gave in. Ketosis has more or less banished cravings – I can’t remember the last time I thought, “I could really go for _X_ right now.” I just eat when I’m physically hungry, which I don’t even notice until I get a slight headache. I’m glad that you’re doing better, **Bambi**. Still, with what I’ve seen in other recovered food addicts, I would still seek some form of help. I’m not completely sold on the theory of “addictive personality,” but I have seen food addicts transfer their obsession (and believe me, that’s not too strong a word) to other things, most worryingly drugs or alcohol. Strong as you sound on this message board, I’d feel better knowing that you’d talked this out with someone in person. ---
**Author:** ![Inoshiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Inoshiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inoshiro)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/238 "2004-04-13T15:08:15Z")
> [@annaplurabelle](#): > > Gee, maybe it was the way the OP was worded:My bolding. Ya think? :rolleyes: > Meanwhile, yet another [cite](http://www.theomnivore.com/WheatIndustryMadatDr.Atkins.html) to exonerrate “the Atkins freaks”: > My bolding again. Not sure what the quoted material is supposed to prove except that the wheat industry doesn’t like Atkins. I’m sure the meat and dairy industries, by contrast, love him. There are special interests all over the map on any issue. The real issue for me is not whether one should live on corn flakes and candy bars (a strawman) but whether radical limits on carbs are the real reason for the weight loss in low carb diets. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/239 "2004-04-13T15:12:50Z")
> [@](#): > > but the bottom line is this: > It does not matter to me if the weight loss is from ketosis, smaller portions, my working out, or if Morgal the friendly dreleb comes by each night with a 1920’s style fat burning ray and zaps my ass. I am losing about 3lbs a week, I’m not hungry, my energy level has gone through the roof, I have to go buy new smaller clothes, and my friends are telling me I look great. > Arguing as to whether it is ketosis or smaller portions is the, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? argument for the new millennium IMHO. The correct answer is of course Who give a fuck? > [@Inoshiro](#): > > Well of course it matters. That’s the whole point. The real source of the weight loss is important to know. If Atkins people are really finding that their low carb meals simply make them feel fuller and thus they eat fewer calories, while they are also beginning an exercise program then they are in a regime where their energy input is less than their daily output. The difference has to be made up somehow according to the law of conservation of matter and energy and this difference is made up by breaking down fat. **Inoshiro** picture this: Your SO walks in with a multi-million dollar winning lottery ticket. **SO** “Honey look we won $10 million dollars!” **You** “Was it a quick pick, or did you pick the numbers yourself” **SO** “WTF?, Who cares? We won $10 million dollars!” **You** “But is important to know” **SO** “It doesn’t fucking matter you idiot, the important thing is we won $10 million dollars, who cares where the numbers came from.” It other words, it is not important if it is reduced intake, increased fat intake, reduced carbs, or Morgal the friendly dreleb (what nobody got the reference?) What is important is the weight loss. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263/240 "2004-04-13T15:34:50Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > I’m glad that you’re doing better, **Bambi**. Still, with what I’ve seen in other recovered food addicts, I would still seek some form of help. I’m not completely sold on the theory of “addictive personality,” but I have seen food addicts transfer their obsession (and believe me, that’s not too strong a word) to other things, most worryingly drugs or alcohol. Strong as you sound on this message board, I’d feel better knowing that you’d talked this out with someone in person. Thank you for your concern. The psychological reasons behind my previous addiction were discussed and remedied long ago with a licensed psychotherapist. I am a much stronger person today than I was 5 - 7 years ago. However, even after the therapy, I was still gaining weight. I went without health insurance (hooray retail!) for a long time, but when I finally got it, I immediately consulted a doctor about my weight. He did some blood work and discovered that my resting insulin count was around 85 - 90. :eek: Insulin’s primary role is the transport of glucose to the body’s cells, but it also promotes fat storage and cravings for food. This incredibly high insulin count was caused by years of overeating – the more simple carbohydrates you eat, the more insulin your body produces to lower your blood sugar; long-term high levels of insulin cause your body’s cells to become resistant to it, leading your body to produce more insulin, continuing the cycle. In most people, this leads to adult-onset diabetes as the pancreas fails due to insulin overproduction or as the body’s cells become so insulin-resistant that the pancreas simply can’t produce enough. In my case, the pancreas hadn’t failed – it just continued to produce more and more insulin. This was the physiological reason behind my being hungry all the time. Even though I had eaten recently, the food just wasn’t getting to my cells because they were just too resistant to insulin. This would lead to me eating more the satisfy the physiological craving for food. Had this continued unabated, I would have developed diabetes – there is absolutely no doubt. My doctor put me on a mildly-restricted carbohydrate diet, because he had had success treating other borderline and full-blown diabetics with it. It wasn’t enough for me, so I put myself on Atkins. When I hopped on Atkins, these physical cravings _vanished_. I honestly have to remind myself to eat – in fact I woke up about 2 hours ago, and I just now remembered that I should eat something. And my resting insulin has dropped to 30 - 40, along with a decrease in triglycerides, LDL cholesterol, and blood pressure. My doctor is amazed at the success I’m having, and he is encouraging me to continue as long as I want. My bloodwork keeps coming back OK, so I’m going to keep doing it. Again, **Duke** , thank you for your concern, but I honestly know what I’m doing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-now-boycotting-any-food-product-that-says-anything-about-carbs/238263.md?page=13)