# I'm off soap!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [February 14, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853 "2017-02-14T22:49:50Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/1 "2017-02-14T22:49:50Z")
A few months back I got on to a soap lick, buying artisanal soaps online and in stores in a search for the perfect bar soap for showering with. Before that I pretty much have exclusively been using Old Spice Amber body wash. Now I was trying a lot of more “all natural” bar soaps and I still didn’t feel satisfied. I was left feeling like the soaps didn’t lather enough (ironically, one of the soap brands has “sudsy” in its name), were somewhat drying and just overall left me unsatisfied. When trying these soaps on my face, I was really able to tell how dry and tight they left my skin feeling.
So, like a good Doper, I decided to do a little research. What took me so long? I wish I had done this earlier. What I found was that dermatologists are pretty much in agreement that soap, plainly put, is just not good for the skin. And this opinion is based on research.
The biggest issue with “real” soap is that the pH is too high for our skin. Our skin is slightly acidic and soap is alkalinic. Here are a few facts from a study I will link to below.
\*Normal healthy skin has potential of hydrogen (pH) range of 5.4-5.9 and a normal bacterial flora. Use of soap with high pH causes an increase in skin pH, which in turn causes an increase in dehydrative effect, irritability and alteration in bacterial flora. The majority of soaps and shampoos available in the market do not disclose their pH.
…
Majority of the soaps have a pH within the range of 9-10.\*
> **[Evaluation of pH of Bathing Soaps and Shampoos for Skin and Hair Care](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4171909/)**
>
> Normal healthy skin has potential of hydrogen (pH) range of 5.4-5.9 and a normal bacterial flora. Use of soap with high pH causes an increase in skin pH, which in turn causes an increase in dehydrative effect, irritability and alteration in bacterial...
A jump in just one digit in pH is huge.
_a difference of one pH unit (ie from pH 2 to pH 3) is a ten fold (10X) difference in H+ ion concentration._
[http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bi...age/ph\_def.htm](http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bi...age/ph_def.htm)
Another issue with soap is that it literally leaves soap scum on your skin. The following is from a website founded by a dermatologist that is all about the skin:
**Disadvantages of soap** [ul]
[li]Soap is alkaline, which irritates sensitive skin, which is normally acidic. Alkaline skin degrades quickly as protease enzymes are activate that destroy the skin proteins.[/li][li]Soap forms scum when used with hard water (water that contains a high amount of calcium in solution). The scum stops the surfactant properties, so one tends to use more soap.[/li][li]Soap leaves deposits of carbonate salts on the skin. This irritates the skin.[/li][li]Soap deteriorates on storage.[/ul][/li][Soaps and cleansers | DermNet](http://www.dermnetnz.org/topics/soaps-and-cleansers/)
So what’s a good alternative? Syndets. A word derived form the words “synthetic” and “detergent.” Yeah, I know, that doesn’t sound so “natural.” That doesn’t mean it’s not better for your skin. From a study:
_It has been well established that cleansing bars based on mild synthetic surfactants (syndets) are significantly milder to skin than the more widely used soap-based cleansing bars. Mild syndet cleansing bars have also been shown to be more compatible cleansers for patients with a variety of skin conditions (e.g., acne, rosacea, atopic dermatitis) and are recommended to be an integral part of patients fundamental daily skin care regimen. We have recently investigated the cosmetic benefits of mild cleansing in a group of mild to moderate photodamaged women who typically wash their faces with ordinary soaps. In a 4-week, double-blind, split- face clinical trial, it was found that daily cleansing with a mild syndet bar led to significant improvements in the appearance of skin compared with daily cleansing with a regular soap. Several skin appearance attributes such as texture, clarity, tone, and brightness improved significantly over the 4-week trial period, as assessed by the investigating dermatologist. Subjects noticed a significant decrease in the appearance of fine lines/wrinkles that was verified by in vivo texture measurements. These benefits of mild syndet bars over soap are linked to the syndet bar’s ability to maintain the integrity of the stratum corneum barrier and leave skin in a more hydrated state.
[DEFINE\_ME](http://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-96...133-0/abstract)_
Back to [dermnetnz.org](http://dermnetnz.org):
**Syndets**
_Synthetically produced detergents (syndets) were developed in the 1950s and are widely available. They are made from a variety of petrochemicals (derived from petroleum) and/or oleochemicals (derived from fats and oils). These hydrocarbon chain sources are used to make the lipophilic end of the surfactant molecule. Chemicals, such as sulphur trioxide, sulphuric acid and ethylene oxide, are used to produce the hydrophilic end of the surfactant molecule._
**Compared with soap:** [ul]
[li]Syndets can be set to the normal skin pH of 5.5[/li][li]The number of Proprionibacterium acnes (acne bacteria) is reduced[/li][li]No scum is produced so they rinse off well[/li][li]Washed skin is less dry[/li][li]Sensitive skin is less irritated[/li][li]They are more expensive.[/ul][/li]
Well, finding all of that out, I couldn’t wait to try a syndet bar. So my next step was deciding on one. After a little more research, I decided to use one called “Vanicream Cleansing Bar.” I found it at my local CVS (although next time I’m going to get it for less online). Yes, this is what I have been looking for! It wasn’t at all drying, it lathered more than all of the soaps I have tried so far and I wasn’t left itchy…at all.
I have tried body washes in the past that contained moisturizers and I couldn’t stand them. They felt like I was rubbing moisturizer on myself and didn’t lather well. This product just leaves me feeling moisturized in a pleasant way. I’m really digging this!
I’m starting this thread in case there are any like me that have been looking for the perfect soap and it didn’t occur to them that maybe “soap” should just be abandoned altogether. If you are completely satisfied with soap, fine, I don’t want to change your mind or debate my findings, but if you’re open to the fact that not everything “natural” is necessarily best and haven’t been as satisfied with any “real” soaps yet, I’m urging you to give a syndet bar a try.
I haven’t tried any others than the one I already mentioned, but I’m looking forward to it.
---
### Author:  [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/2 "2017-02-14T23:30:31Z")
Thank you for this. I’ll try it!
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### Author:  [@Girlundone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girlundone)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/3 "2017-02-14T23:42:52Z")
I make handmade soap from scratch (have been for about 18 years). I wouldn’t say there is much to the “all natural” claims that many soap makers are so big on. I love making it and using it, and have a small customer base which sustains my hobby, but the important thing is to listen to your skin and how it feels. I would add that those who tend toward really hot showers/baths can experience dryness no matter the product they use. I’m glad you found what works for you!
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### Author:  [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/4 "2017-02-15T00:29:50Z")
Very interesting! Soaps do make my skin itchy. I’ll try this. Please share your experiences and further research. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/5 "2017-02-15T01:28:48Z")
I’ve been using Dove soap for years (although they call it a “beauty bar” and not soap). So I was contemplating making a change and did a Google search for the “best soap”. In among all of the click bait results, one review suggested that Dove was one of the best options. So I still buy Dove.
And, by the way, I was amused that in recent years soap is now sold by gender. So the regular Dove soap that I’ve always bought is now in the aisle for “women and families”, while one aisle over in the men’s soap section is the “Dove for Men” line.
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### Author:  [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/6 "2017-02-15T05:43:09Z")
Thanks. I ordered a bar of Eucerin’s version for my husband, who has terrible rosacea. He won’t like it, but no one can say I didn’t try.
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### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/7 "2017-02-15T07:01:07Z")
I don’t know anything about anything, but I do know I have a skin sensitivity so tend towards no-perfume colourless soap to help avoid unnecessary irritation. So far it’s worked out fine, and I don’t find it causes any real issues. I feel good.
Hair, on the other hand, has largely been water-only. I gave up shampoos many years ago when I realised they were causing more problems than they were solving, and found it to be an increasing practice to abandon it entirely, so gave it a go. It has largely been good for me, until recently that is, where I may now have to use some kind of medicated shampoo or similar as decrepitude rapidly approaches, because something is causing itchy scalp - probably the wacky weather coupled with synthetic materials in the hats I wear.
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### Author:  [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/8 "2017-02-15T10:25:32Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#):
>
> I don’t know anything about anything, but I do know I have a skin sensitivity so tend towards no-perfume colourless soap to help avoid unnecessary irritation. So far it’s worked out fine, and I don’t find it causes any real issues. I feel good.
>
> Hair, on the other hand, has largely been water-only. I gave up shampoos many years ago when I realised they were causing more problems than they were solving, and found it to be an increasing practice to abandon it entirely, so gave it a go. It has largely been good for me, until recently that is, where I may now have to use some kind of medicated shampoo or similar as decrepitude rapidly approaches, because something is causing itchy scalp - probably the wacky weather coupled with synthetic materials in the hats I wear.
Read about the [No Poo](https://www.nopoomethod.com/) method-- no shampoo, that is.
> [@](#):
>
> The theory of “No Poo” is this: by washing hair with a gentle alternative to shampoo, such as baking soda and apple cider vinegar or even just water only, you’ll achieve clean hair without the damage or dependency on daily shampooing. So, in short, instead of allowing chemicals in shampoo to strip your hair, strip away the chemicals instead and stop using shampoo altogether. Most dermatologists and hair stylists have been long-time advocates of shampooing less often, and are crying hallelujah for this hair care revolution.
>
> Skeptical?
> People are skeptical, of course, believing that their daily shampoo ritual is vital to keeping grease and oil at bay and that without it they’ll feel gross. The hair’s sebaceous oil glands are triggered to release extra sebum when they sense the hair drying out. By over-washing, you remove hair’s natural conditioning and send the oil glands into a frenzy to replenish what was lost. This often causes an overproduction of sebum, giving hair that “grease ball” look, which in turn makes people want to shampoo all over again and creates a vicious cycle…
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### Author:  [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/9 "2017-02-15T10:38:21Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#):
>
> Read about the [No Poo](https://www.nopoomethod.com/) method-- no shampoo, that is.
Is there anything which isn’t from an advocacy site? Because I’m reminded of people who claim you don’t need deodorant, and if you stop using it eventually your body adjusts and you stop smelling. Uh, no you don’t, you just “adjust” to your own funk.
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### Author:  [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/10 "2017-02-15T10:48:36Z")
> [@jz78817](#):
>
> Is there anything which isn’t from an advocacy site? Because I’m reminded of people who claim you don’t need deodorant, and if you stop using it eventually your body adjusts and you stop smelling. Uh, no you don’t, you just “adjust” to your own funk.
:rolleyes:
Just Google the phrase.
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### Author:  [@Bumbazine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbazine)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/11 "2017-02-15T21:46:36Z")
I’m glad you’re finding something that works for you.
However, I’ve been making my own soap for 12 years now. (My wife is allergic to commercial soaps.)
Anyway, when I first started, we tested the PH of our batches and they would start out alkaline but within a few days would become ‘neutral’, so it’s not true that all soaps are alkaline.
Just sayin’
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### Author:  [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/12 "2017-02-16T21:42:36Z")
OK, here are the label listed ingredients in the only soaps I ever used in the past 20-30 years for shave/shower/shampoo:
Chami (Syria): 90% olive oil, 7% laurel’s oil, 3% alkali
Zote (Mexico) : Sodium tallowate, sodium cocoate.
That’s all the information there is. What can I learn from that, that would be useful in the context of the OP’s information?
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/13 "2017-02-16T21:52:45Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#):
>
> Read about the [No Poo](https://www.nopoomethod.com/) method-- no shampoo, that is.
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > The theory of “No Poo” is this: by washing hair with a gentle alternative to shampoo, such as baking soda and apple cider vinegar or even just water only, you’ll achieve clean hair without the damage or dependency on daily shampooing. So, in short, instead of allowing chemicals in shampoo to strip your hair, strip away the chemicals instead and stop using shampoo altogether. Most dermatologists and hair stylists have been long-time advocates of shampooing less often, and are crying hallelujah for this hair care revolution.
> >
> > Skeptical?
> > People are skeptical, of course, believing that their daily shampoo ritual is vital to keeping grease and oil at bay and that without it they’ll feel gross. The hair’s sebaceous oil glands are triggered to release extra sebum when they sense the hair drying out. By over-washing, you remove hair’s natural conditioning and send the oil glands into a frenzy to replenish what was lost. This often causes an overproduction of sebum, giving hair that “grease ball” look, which in turn makes people want to shampoo all over again and creates a vicious cycle…
I also would like to see a cite that
[ul][li]Baking soda and vinegar are easier on your hair than commercial shampoo, and[/li][li]That your scalp’s oil glands can tell how much oil is on your hair.[/ul][/li]
> [@](#):
>
> Just Google the phrase.
I did that. I didn’t see anything very credible.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-off-soap/779853/14 "2017-02-16T22:28:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> I also would like to see a cite that
> [ul][li]Baking soda and vinegar are easier on your hair than commercial shampoo, and[/li][li]That your scalp’s oil glands can tell how much oil is on your hair.[/ul][/li]I did that. I didn’t see anything very credible.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
All-right-y then. There’s your answer.