# I'm offended by the Christmas offended **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 21, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212 "2008-12-21T19:51:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/61 "2008-12-21T22:20:56Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I have less respect for those who don’t respect my culture and are offended by it. Go ahead, give me a greeting in your culture, what ever it is, that you believe is not offensive. You are hilariously stupid. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/62 "2008-12-21T22:22:12Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > What did I do to make me an asshole? I can’t come up with a rationale for that. I certainly don’t have any ill will towards you. Actually you aren’t, although your anti-christmas view offends me. But this is the pit and I comply with pit culture. > [@](#): > > Oh well, have a nice day. Same to you, and on the 25th of December as well while the rest of us are opening presents, seeing relatives and feasting. That’s got to suck, except that you’ll probably be sking somewhere. Don’t break a leg. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/63 "2008-12-21T22:26:38Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > You are hilariously stupid. The implication of my challenge has simply gone over your head. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/64 "2008-12-21T22:27:03Z")
> [@nameless](#): > > Oh please. Some of my friends were hippies. If I refrain offering you cannabis all the time, does that mean I believe something is severely wrong with that culture? I sure hope so. Because the alternative is that you’re a stingy bogartin’ SOB who won’t share his weed, and that’s far worse. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/65 "2008-12-21T22:27:18Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Actually you aren’t, although your anti-christmas view offends me. But this is the pit and I comply with pit culture. What a classless non-apology. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/66 "2008-12-21T22:31:33Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > Get back to us when Thanksgiving and the weeks leading up to it are celebrated with special masses in Christian churches. Christmas and Advent are huge religious events, major dates in the Christian calendar, and are centrepieces of Christian religions. Thanksgiving has religious overtones. Most Christian churches don’t hold Mass. AFAIK, the term is only used by Catholics and Anglicans. However, to address your point, I’ll get back to you now: > **[St. Joan of Arc Mpls](https://www.saintjoanofarc.org)** > > St. Joan of Arc is a joyful Christian community which celebrates the loving word of God in worship and action. We transcend traditional boundaries and draw those who seek spiritual growth and social justice. We welcome diverse ideas and encourage... [http://www.calvin.edu/worship/services/occasion/10\_13\_03.php](http://www.calvin.edu/worship/services/occasion/10_13_03.php) [http://www.progress-index.com/articles/2008/11/15/news/church\_news/doc491ee511d2030471799587.txt](http://www.progress-index.com/articles/2008/11/15/news/church_news/doc491ee511d2030471799587.txt) I could go on for several pages if you like. Google “Thanksgiving Mass” or “Thanksgiving service” or “Thanksgiving sermon”. I’ll ask you straight out the question I alluded to above: if you don’t think Thanksgiving is a religious holiday, who exactly do you think it’s for giving thanks to? [QUOTE=Telemark] I agree that Thanksgiving has religious origins, but to me, at least, it has lost that connection. Christmas for me, never has. I could see it happening for future generations perhaps. [/QUOTE] Perhaps Hallowe’en would be a better comparison: it’s another Christian holiday which almost everyone in America (and I assume you’re American) celebrates - the eve of All Saints’/All Hallows’ Day. The primary point of 99% of Hallowe’en celebrations is to dress up as something scary or funny (or as a whore if you’re a female between 16-29). The primary point of 95% of Christmas celebrations is to give people stuff. Does the extra 4% of observance really make a significant difference? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/67 "2008-12-21T22:33:23Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > Actually you aren’t, although your anti-christmas view offends me. But this is the pit and I comply with pit culture. This is what it takes to get a Canadian upset enough to get all up in your grill? Where’s that reputation for politeness come from, I wonder? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/68 "2008-12-21T22:34:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I sure hope so. Because the alternative is that you’re a stingy bogartin’ SOB who won’t share his weed, and that’s far worse. > > 😃 I mean, it’s a silly example but I think it has bearing here. I used to smoke a lot of cannabis (said **nameless** , pulling his laptop in closer as he sits next to his family on the couch during the holidays). When I stopped, my friends were all very, very confused. They’d continue offering me pot that I just didn’t want. And they’d get offended! “What? You don’t want it?” they would say. And I would explain, “Hey guys, I still love you, I just don’t want to smoke.” My friend said, “It’s like we’re offering you this delicious cheeseburger that we bought for you and you’re not taking it!” And I replied, “Dude, it’s like you’re offering a cheeseburger to someone you know is a vegetarian!” I think this is an exactly analogous situation. **Dutchman** , you’ve got to get it through your head that some people don’t want what you’re offering. Doesn’t mean they’re assholes or you can’t be friends or even that they’re anti-Christmas! Just play nice with others! Crimeny! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/69 "2008-12-21T22:35:08Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Forget it, this is exactly why it’s not worth my time. The people who matter to me treat my feelings with respect, that’s what’s important. Why do you keep piping up about it then. It must mean something to you. How does saying Merry Christmas fuck you up so badly? I’m not even religious and I like getting Christmas cards. Move on man. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/70 "2008-12-21T22:40:00Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hey \*\*Flying Dutchman \*\*- happy birthday! Thankyou **Alessan**. Somewhat belated or premature, but no one’s ever wish me a happy birthday before on the SDMB and you’ve lifted my spirits somewhat. I get your point though, but I must ask you if you would be worried if I or anyone else here would be offended if you wished us a Happy Hanukkah. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/71 "2008-12-21T22:41:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Most Christian churches don’t hold Mass. AFAIK, the term is only used by Catholics and Anglicans. “Services” then. Point still applies. > [@](#): > > However, to address your point, I’ll get back to you now: > [St. Joan of Arc Mpls](http://www.stjoan.com/er3/thanksgiving.htm) > [http://www.calvin.edu/worship/services/occasion/10\_13\_03.php](http://www.calvin.edu/worship/services/occasion/10_13_03.php) > [http://www.progress-index.com/articles/2008/11/15/news/church\_news/doc491ee511d2030471799587.txt](http://www.progress-index.com/articles/2008/11/15/news/church_news/doc491ee511d2030471799587.txt) > > I could go on for several pages if you like. Google “Thanksgiving Mass” or “Thanksgiving service” or “Thanksgiving sermon”. > > I’ll ask you straight out the question I alluded to above: if you don’t think Thanksgiving is a religious holiday, who exactly do you think it’s for giving thanks to? I’m not denying that Thanksgiving has religious overtones, or that it’s mentioned in churches. I’m questioning whether or not you realize just how significant a religious holiday Christmas is. Christmas is second only to Easter in importance to Christian religions. It celebrates the birth of the person the religions are named after, and is celebrated by Christians around the world. Thanksgiving is a harvest festival that has Christian religious overtones because it was originally celebrated by Christian settlers. It’s not even celebrated by Christians outside of North America. Trying to compare Christmas to Thanksgiving just obscures the religious significance of Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/72 "2008-12-21T22:42:14Z")
> [@gravitycrash](#): > > Why do you keep piping up about it then. It must mean something to you. How does saying Merry Christmas fuck you up so badly? I’m not even religious and I like getting Christmas cards. Move on man. Maybe he keeps piping up about it because people keep getting all offended about it. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/73 "2008-12-21T22:43:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Does the extra 4% of observance really make a significant difference? I think the important aspect is that I’ve never felt excluded from Thanksgiving or Halloween celebrations. I’ve always felt excluded from Christmas celebrations. And I concede that a lot of that comes from my upbringing - as Jews we just didn’t join in on Christmas celebrations but there were no obstacles to T-day or Halloween. Those are my favorite holidays of the year, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/74 "2008-12-21T22:44:29Z")
Maybe someone keeps their faith private and doesn’t like having any aspects of someone else’s faith put in their face. Hell, maybe a mall Santa molested someone and that’s what they associate with Christmas–you don’t know! Is it so hard to just attempt to be considerate? I have a friend who doesn’t like to eat wheat. So when I cook for her, I cook without wheat. I have a friend who hates the Beatles. When we hang out, I don’t put the Beatles on. _I think these are all ludicrous aversions and they are in direct contrast to my own tastes._ But they’re my friends and I value their company so I make allowances. I suspect the people who insist on saying Merry Christmas to everyone make the same adjustments every day. Why can’t people do the same for this one tiny little thing? Is it that it feels good to play the victim of some cultural oppression? ---
**Author:** ![Proudest\_Monkey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/proudest_monkey/32/13257_2.png) [@Proudest\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Proudest_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/75 "2008-12-21T23:23:29Z")
Wasn’t this whole **War on Christmas** talking point played out two-years ago? Or are we keeping it alive, and I didn’t get the memo? Wish me whatever you want; as long as you don’t want to legislate your religion into law, I will accept your Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays or Good Yule as a friendly seasonal greeting which wishes me well. And I will return it in the same spirit in which it is given. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/76 "2008-12-21T23:30:25Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I think the important aspect is that I’ve never felt excluded from Thanksgiving or Halloween celebrations. I’ve always felt excluded from Christmas celebrations. And I concede that a lot of that comes from my upbringing - as Jews we just didn’t join in on Christmas celebrations but there were no obstacles to T-day or Halloween. Those are my favorite holidays of the year, in fact. I don’t do Christmas either, so perhaps I can understand some of your feelings of exclusion. But don’t you think this is a little over-the-top. > [@Someone said 'Happy Holidays' to me: I'm a Jehovah's Witness. I'm offended! I'll sue!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-said-happy-holidays-to-me-im-a-jehovahs-witness-im-offended-ill-sue/478067/14): > > Since you felt fine wishing me Merry Christmas in the other thread after I’d told you that I don’t appreciate it, I’ll just add a hearty Fuck You in this thread. Can you grasp the concept that your POV is not universal? I went back to your posts to see what threads you were talking about since you didn’t link them and found this post. Not only do I not know who you’re addressing, I also don’t know which other thread you’re talking about. Either way, wow! If people are really pushing your buttons that badly with this, perhaps you could explain more explicitly why it bothers you or link to where you have, but I’m not seeing the reason for the upset here. And a question: are the people who are wishing you a Merry Christmas wishing other people the same thing? Are you expecting other people to make exceptions for you and remember to do so when they don’t for others? Do these people that you’re complaining about know you personally and well? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/77 "2008-12-21T23:38:40Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Perhaps I cling to much to the innocence and simplicity of Christmases of my early years where you couldn’t possibly offend anyone by wishing them a Merry Christmas. Or rather, nobody _showed_ offense. Not quite the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/78 "2008-12-21T23:44:00Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > The implication of my challenge has simply gone over your head. Foo foo babba rabba bing! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/79 "2008-12-21T23:53:14Z")
Hey, **monstro**. > [@](#): > > Why do people do the “Merry Christmas” stuff in the first place? Why reserve your well wishes to only this time of year? Why not have a Christmas mood all the time instead of saving it for the “season”? What is it about Christmas that makes people feel like they have to not only be extra friendly and fake-happy, but compel other people to be likewise? You know that the answer is different for everybody. I’ll bet this was rhetorical, huh? Some of us want to be friendly more often and just can’t think of anything to say. “Happy Tuesday afternoon!” wears thin after a while and it only has one song that fits. But “fake happy”? I really _do_ feel happier around Christmas. On Christmas morning, if nothing else, you can wake up and think, “Hey, the days are getting longer.” We don’t have any packages to open. (We have enough.) Neither of us cooks and the oven doesn’t work anyway. It’s just the two of us and the cat. But we will probably watch **Fanny and Alelxander** and **A Child’s Christmas in Wales**. Then after a while, we will fight over whose turn it is at the computer. These are some of our traditions. Have you ever been to Williamsburg at Christmas? That’s what I want to do a couple of years from now. Are there people really annoyed by “Happy Holidays”? Back in the 1950s, it was used in cards and songs and no one thought much about it. Perry Como’s song “There’s No Place Like Home for the Holidays” was a big hit. No one thought it was a conspiracy. And “Season’s Greetings” cards were sent by Christians without a second thought. I just hate the paranoia that has been instilled by some Christian leaders. I think most of them know better. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/80 "2008-12-21T23:57:17Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > I went back to your posts to see what threads you were talking about since you didn’t link them and found this post. Not only do I not know who you’re addressing, I also don’t know which other thread you’re talking about. Either way, wow! Good grief. It’s not that complicated. Start [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=498415). Specifically posts #5 and #9. Note who started the thread. Then go [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=498417), to the pit thread you already noticed. **Telemark** said it bugged him when people who knew he was Jewish wished him Merry Christmas. **shallora** promptly not only wished him Merry Christmas in response but started a pit thread to satirize the affair. I think **Telemark** ’s response at that point was warranted; **shallora** was being a dick. If **Telemark** ’s getting pissy at this point, maybe it’s because people keep missing his point and are poking him besides. (I’ve never seen so many people miss the point so fucking completely. _WHY ARE YOU WISHING SOMEONE MERRY CHRISTMAS?_ For their benefit, or just to make you feel better? This is not supposed to be a selfish act! Why is it so fucking incomprehensible to take another person’s feelings and circumstances into consideration _when you’re wishing them goodwill_?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212.md?page=5)