# I'm offended by the Christmas offended **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 21, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212 "2008-12-21T19:51:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/101 "2008-12-22T05:18:12Z")
There’s also a difference when it’s some random stranger and someone you know. Friend, relative, coworker, whatever. A retail worker informing you that he’s made uneasy by “Merry Christmas” would be a little strange. A cubicle-mate is a bit of a different matter. The retail guy you’re likely never gonna see again. The cube-mate, you need to get along with, and that means not being annoying or upsetting. The people protesting there’s nothing wrong with “Merry Christmas” tend to think of the first situation, while the people who are asking that their wishes be respected tend to be thinking of the second. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/102 "2008-12-22T05:36:05Z")
> [@gravitycrash](#): > > …How does saying Merry Christmas fuck you up so badly? I’m not even religious and I like getting Christmas cards. Move on man. > [@gravitycrash](#): > > …Christmas is a huge fucking holiday in the US. GET THE FUCK OVER IT REST OF THE WORLD. > > This country is still mostly Christian. We have a holiday once a year giving gifts to each other. Why and how can this offend anyone? And really if it offends someone good. Kiss my hairy ass. > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > And all I’m saying is get the fuck over yourself. When you tell me that offering you a “Merry Christmas” offends you, then you are offending me and my culture. Perhaps those holding these views should instead wish any to “Have a merry fucking Christmas, mother fucker!” in keeping with their true feelings. Oh, and Happy Hannukah **Telemark**. Desiring to be treated with respect is never a bad thing. And even as a non-Christian, I couldn’t care less what you wish me, but I can’t stand not honoring someone else’s wishes. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/103 "2008-12-22T06:36:15Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You know, if we’re going to have a War on Christmas, can’t we make it a REAL war? With guns and missiles and bombs and all that fun stuff? Otherwise, what’s the point? Why not? There are already [“War on Christmas” propaganda posters](http://atheism.about.com/od/newschristmaswars/ig/War-on-Christmas-Propaganda/) that can be put to good use. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/104 "2008-12-22T06:46:56Z")
Say I’m Christian and move to a Muslim country where I have many Muslim colleagues who I am friendly with. Once a year they wish me “Happy Ramadan”, because it is a very festive and important holiday for them. Why would I be “uneasy” about them wishing me “Happy Ramadan”? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/105 "2008-12-22T07:12:17Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Say I’m Christian and move to a Muslim country where I have many Muslim colleagues who I am friendly with. Once a year they wish me “Happy Ramadan”, because it is a very festive and important holiday for them. > > Why would I be “uneasy” about them wishing me “Happy Ramadan”? Say you were uneasy. Wouldn’t it be jerkish to tell them that you would like to be specifically excluded from their Muslim good wishes ? That’s the point of my OP. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/106 "2008-12-22T07:14:11Z")
I wonder if everyone forgets the “Jesus is the reason for the season” stuff. And this War stuff started when the right was offended by stores using Happy Holidays. If Christmas was so secular, why the offense? (Especially when said in a store owned by Jews.) When someone says Merry Christmas to me the first time, I say Happy Hannukah back. They mostly look confused. I do have it easier - where I live half the people and more than half the clerks are clearly not Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/107 "2008-12-22T07:16:53Z")
> [@nameless](#): > > I mean, it’s a silly example but I think it has bearing here. > > I used to smoke a lot of cannabis (said **nameless** , pulling his laptop in closer as he sits next to his family on the couch during the holidays). When I stopped, my friends were all very, very confused. They’d continue offering me pot that I just didn’t want. And they’d get offended! “What? You don’t want it?” they would say. And I would explain, “Hey guys, I still love you, I just don’t want to smoke.” My friend said, “It’s like we’re offering you this delicious cheeseburger that we bought for you and you’re not taking it!” And I replied, “Dude, it’s like you’re offering a cheeseburger to someone you know is a vegetarian!” Good one. When I was in college I was one of a very few who never touched the stuff (not because I thought there was anything wrong with it.) My friends offered once, and that was it. I was happy to pass a joint going around on, never taking any. That was respect for everyone’s opinions, unlike the War on Christmas folks. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/108 "2008-12-22T07:20:59Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > When someone says Merry Christmas to me the first time, I say Happy Hannukah back. So, if you were living in a Muslim country and someone said “Happy Ramadan” to you, you’d respond “Happy \” to them? ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/109 "2008-12-22T07:22:29Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I notice lately that some people are starting to seem to use the words ‘merry christmas’ as a weapon against those that they think might resent it. I would tend to doubt it. People who want to be offensive would say, Merry CHRISTmas with a long sounding “I” as in Christ. People in the church I attend\* have been doing that for years. There’s nothing subtle about it. If someone wants to use it as a weapon, you’d know. \*obligatory I’m not a Christian disclaimer ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/110 "2008-12-22T08:25:29Z")
No, I agree with **Nzinga** and that was my point anyway. The people in my family do exactly this. It’s said in such a glaring, hostile way that you can’t mistake their intent whatsoever. They want you to _know_. And as has been stated over however many various threads, as someone who has used “Happy Holidays” even back when she was a Christian, I take this when it’s aimed at me this way as very bizarre indeed. But I just shrug and then wish them a Merry Christmas too because I don’t really care. I think that part though is lost on them. ---
**Author:** ![Carson\_O\_Genic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Carson\_O\_Genic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carson_O_Genic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/111 "2008-12-22T10:41:33Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Say you were uneasy. Wouldn’t it be jerkish to tell them that you would like to be specifically excluded from their Muslim good wishes ? > > That’s the point of my OP. "If I go to Saudi Arabia, I’m not going to be offended by well meaning cultural gestures, religious or otherwise. In fact I would welcome it. I would deplore any western thinking person that would suggest they were offended by a benign religious or cultural gesture in a foreign land. That includes the Christian missionaries past and present. " Beheadings are TEH BEST!!!111!! Stonings are way cool too Eyes and hands, meh. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveroptic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiveroptic/32/8257_2.png) [@Fiveroptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveroptic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/112 "2008-12-22T11:44:30Z")
**Telemark** , I hear you, I understand you, and I think you’ve been beyond patient in trying to explain yourself in these threads. I was raised Anglican and Christmas was both Christian and secular. There came a time in my life where the Christmas season became excruciatingly painful for me and I chose to treat the season and the day as any other to keep a handle on my own mental state. I’ve never begrudged it for anyone else, nor in fact have I been able to do so since I’ve worked retail my entire life. There’s just no escaping it. Plus, I generally enjoy Christmas music. However, many years ago when things were bad for me, being wished a “Merry Christmas” was a reminder that my Christmas would be anything but merry, and it felt like a tiny little knife in my heart when I was wished a Merry Christmas. But see, that was MY problem, not society’s. Unlike **Telemark** , I obviously didn’t make my uneasiness (pain, actually) with the greeting known to transient customers. My close friends knew and respected my wishes. But there’s no escaping being Seasons’-Greeted by the public at large. Over the next few years, having experienced a twinge of heartache when being wished merriness for a day that would be filled with sorrow, I stopped wishing customers “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Holidays” just in case they felt the same way I did. I simply continued with the same parting words I used all year long, like “Thanks, I hope you enjoy this aquarium and call me if you have questions,” or “be careful out there, I hear the roads are bad,” and “Thanks a lot, hope to see you later.” Those were sincere sentiments. Any mention of wishing a happy whatever at this point in my life rarely has sincerity when said to a stranger, but at least I’ve gotten past my previous neurosis and depression. Now I work midnights in a 24-hour Kroger and I rarely have to deal with customers unless they find me and frantically ask for directions to the pregnancy tests. No matter what time of year it is, I’m quite safe with my standard non-specific wish of “Good luck!” ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/113 "2008-12-22T12:00:35Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Why ? You’ve just finished telling us almost nobody is offended by Christmas cards. The Christmas card/greeting is an expression coming from my cultural heritage. Any abridgement of that expression would be indicative of me believing something is wrong with my culture. Bullshit. You’re just gasping to be offended. And BTW there is plenty wrong with your ‘christian’ culture if you think it’s fine to go round offending people of other religions or none with your fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/114 "2008-12-22T12:49:06Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Perhaps I cling to much to the innocence and simplicity of Christmases of my early years where you couldn’t possibly offend anyone by wishing them a Merry Christmas. Just how old _are_ you? My memories of cards saying “Season’s Greetings” & “Happy Holidays” go way back. When somebody has told you that they don’t celebrate Christmas, continuing to wish them “Merry Christmas” is far from innocent. But it may be simple. What is it with you Canadians? **Valteron** started a thread in GD about why he was on the other side in The War On Christmas. Down here in the US of A, it’s been old news for some time. Our Religious Right–who made that “War” a news story–have moved on to being upset about what will happen when Their Godly President is replaced. Get with the program! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/115 "2008-12-22T13:55:36Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Say you were uneasy. Wouldn’t it be jerkish to tell them that you would like to be specifically excluded from their Muslim good wishes? No, not jerkish in any way, shape, or form. I guess we’ll just have to disagree on this. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/116 "2008-12-22T14:28:56Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > Say you were uneasy. Wouldn’t it be jerkish to tell them that you would like to be specifically excluded from their Muslim good wishes? From my assertiveness training, I learned that assertiveness means standing up for yourself while respecting others. Aggressiveness is standing up for yourself while disrespecting others. So we can conclude that a person politely informing well-wishers that while they appreciate their thoughts, they feel uneasy by them is being assertive. It’s no different than a person telling someone to stop asking “What’s wrong?” after the person has already said they don’t feel like talking. An individual who insists on saying “MERRY CHRISTMAS!!” to someone who has politely asked them to stop is being an aggressive jerk. You don’t even have to take a training class to understand why, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/117 "2008-12-22T14:43:41Z")
Some people can’t be happy unless _every other person in the world_ feels the same way as them. I feel sorry for those people. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/118 "2008-12-22T16:39:10Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Bullshit. You’re just gasping to be offended. And BTW there is plenty wrong with your ‘christian’ culture if you think it’s fine to go round offending people of other religions or none with your fantasies. I never said it was fine to willingly offend people with greetings. Certainly there are jerks who do so and no one is willing to defend them. And a response to these people is not what my OP is about. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/119 "2008-12-22T16:49:39Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I never said it was fine to willingly offend people with greetings. Certainly there are jerks who do so and no one is willing to defend them. And a response to these people is not what my OP is about. Here’s what you said: > [@](#): > > The Christmas card/greeting is an expression coming from my cultural heritage. Any abridgement of that expression would be indicative of me believing something is wrong with my culture. It seems to me like you’re saying that you will offer your greetings in the manner you choose regardless of someone else’s feelings on the subject. If “any abridgement of that expression” is unacceptable to you, even if told that it makes the other person uncomfortable, can you see why people are confused by your statements here? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/120 "2008-12-22T17:21:23Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > From my assertiveness training, I learned that assertiveness means standing up for yourself while respecting others… > So we can conclude that a person politely informing well-wishers that while they appreciate their thoughts, they feel uneasy by them is being assertive. Quite true. Assertiveness is only a virtue with respect to aggressiveness. Assertiveness can still be employed when you put your own wishes ahead of the other. Even for petty reasons. In this case, you are asking someone else to modify their behavior because they have “offended” you. Trust me, for every person offended by the Christmas salutation there will be a person who will take offense because you expressed offense at their behavior and asked them to modify it. Those who are aggressive as you’ve pointed out clearly need no pitting on my part.No one here would support them. But those who wish to express offense for a **benign** mainstream cultural greeting merely because they choose not to be a passive participant of the culture need a tuning up as far as I’m concerned. They may be assertive, but they are not considerate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212.md?page=7)