# I'm offended by the Christmas offended **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 21, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212 "2008-12-21T19:51:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/121 "2008-12-22T17:37:48Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Here’s what you said: > > It seems to me like you’re saying that you will offer your greetings in the manner you choose regardless of someone else’s feelings on the subject. If “any abridgement of that expression” is unacceptable to you, even if told that it makes the other person uncomfortable, can you see why people are confused by your statements here? I thought I was clear from the gitgo. I have and will accede to the wishes of the offended. I’m merely stating in the second quote however that be doing so the interpretation available to the offendee is that I accept there is something negative about the culture surrounding Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/122 "2008-12-22T17:39:34Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > In this case, you are asking someone else to modify their behavior because they have “offended” you. Towards that person. They’re asking you to modify your behavior towards them, not in general. I’m foul-mouthed with my close friends, but I guarantee you when someone asks me not to cuss because it offends them, _I don’t fucking cuss_ in front of them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/123 "2008-12-22T17:55:32Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Towards that person. They’re asking you to modify your behavior towards them, not in general. I’m foul-mouthed with my close friends, but I guarantee you when someone asks me not to cuss because it offends them, _I don’t fucking cuss_ in front of them. Well, I’m not a close friend. Please don’t ever call me an idiot or a moron . It offends me. Asshole is okay though. I don’t want to be a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/124 "2008-12-22T18:00:24Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > that by doing so the interpretation available to the offendee is that I accept there is something negative about the culture surrounding Christmas. It does nothing of the sort. I really can’t see how you get this interpretation. I’m not saying anything negative about the culture around Christmas - I’m just not part of it and don’t wish to be included. I wish you all the Christmas Joy in the world, but there’s nothing offensive or derogatory about asking to be left out. If that is a problem then we have a fundamental disconnect. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/125 "2008-12-22T18:02:22Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Well, I’m not a close friend. Please don’t ever call me an idiot or a moron . It offends me. > > Asshole is okay though. I don’t want to be a hypocrite. Gotcha, asshole. I think it really boils down to how much you want to be considerate toward someone. When it’s a retail clerk, the extent of our relationship is a business transaction; their beliefs or lack thereof don’t really concern me, and vice versa. When it’s someone who you encounter on a regular basis, consideration plays a stronger role. There’s also the factor of how much good will you actually want to keep. If I want to be on good terms with someone, even if I only know them as a passing acquaintance, then I respect their wishes. If they piss me off for some reason, the good will isn’t as important, and at that point I might not really care that you don’t like to be called an idiot. (Pronoun switch-up for the win.) That’s why it looks to me like you’re intentionally provoking **Telemark** , or at the very least you don’t care about keeping good will with him. To that extent, claiming you’re saying “Merry Christmas” to _spread_ good will is a bit disingenuous. Words themselves don’t have much meaning; it’s how they’re used that gives them such. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/126 "2008-12-22T18:13:02Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I thought I was clear from the gitgo. I have and will accede to the wishes of the offended. I’m merely stating in the second quote however that be doing so the interpretation available to the offendee is that I accept there is something negative about the culture surrounding Christmas. No, you’re not being asked to accept that at all. Perhaps yet another analogy is in order. Let’s say you’re having lunch with a coworker. You’re eating a big roast beef sandwich and offer half to your coworker. Very kind of you, we can all agree. Your coworker says no thanks, he’s a vegetarian. All is well with the world. You then take out a piece of meat and wave it in front of his face, taunting him with things like “Bambi is DEAD! I ate the Easter bunny! Tonight I’m going to eat a big, bloody, juicy DEAD COW!” Then you’ve crossed over into being a jerk. Your coworker asks you politely to stop it. Then you have a (har har) cow, claiming that your coworker is oppressing your carniverous lifestyle. You’ve gone from being a jerk to being a jerk spoiling for a fight. Having said that, peace on Earth and good will towards men, and if you don’t like it, go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/127 "2008-12-22T18:22:26Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Assertiveness can still be employed when you put your own wishes ahead of the other. Even for petty reasons. In this case, you are asking someone else to modify their behavior because they have “offended” you. Trust me, for every person offended by the Christmas salutation there will be a person who will take offense because you expressed offense at their behavior and asked them to modify it. Correct. If **Telemark** tells a close friend who keeps badgering him with Merry Christmases to please stop it, the friend is perfectly free to be irritated. Just as if I ask you to please stop asking “What’s wrong?” and you continue to be intrusively “nice”, I am free to think of you as a thoughtless moron. The kicker is this: A person can’t help being irritated or offended. A feeling is a feeling. It’s not right or wrong. It just “is”. But you _can_ help saying “Merry Christmas”, as this is a conscious, willful act (unless you suffer from Tourette’s). So asking someone to stop doing something is much more reasonable a request than asking someone to _feel_ something (or not feel something, which is what this thread is about). Your Christmas spirit will not be ruined by stopping to consider that your friend **Telemark** does not celebrate Christmas and therefore would much rather have a “Happy holidays” or “Happy Hanukkah” or perhaps nothing at all. If you can’t be bothered to give a gift that a person would actually appreciate, then you don’t really have much of a Christmas spirit, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/128 "2008-12-22T18:45:49Z")
Just so’s you know. I’m not one of the Christmas offended. My senses are ‘offended’ by the non-religious side of it (ironically) but being wished merry Christmas is not offensive at all. I understand that I am being wished to enjoy this festive period. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/129 "2008-12-22T19:36:05Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I sort of know someone who is offended by Christmas, and cards. It’s a woman I work with who’s a Jehovah’s Witness. Sweet girl, and I actually like her for the most part, but she’s always talking about “[her] religion” and how it’s right, while all the others are obviously wrong without giving any real justification despite weekly bible study classes in addition to actual church meetings. > > I do think she would be offended if someone gave her a Christmas card, and I don’t believe anyone in our office has even though I, an open atheist, have received about a dozen, a few of them blatantly religious. > > I made jokes about them burning my fingers as I opened them, but still thanked the people who gave them to me.. I am sorry to hear this. I used to work with a Jehovah’s Witness, and she never discussed her religion at work. Many people there had no idea. She never took part in any parties that were related to any holidays or anyone’s birthdays, and I felt bad about that because I liked her. I often had to shoo younger employees away from trying to persuade her to come get cookies or whatever was being served at a Christmas party, and explain because they were bewildered. She died about two years ago. I miss her. She had a lot of class. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/130 "2008-12-22T19:39:25Z")
Why would cookies be a problem? That kind of sucks. (For her, I mean.) ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212/131 "2008-12-22T22:14:10Z")
It wasn’t the cookies that were the problem (though they were, as she was a diabetic). It was that she declined to participate in events relating to holidays or birthdays. So if we were having a party because we’d just won some award or somebody was leaving or the Indians were in the playoffs, she’d be there and celebrating with the rest of us. If the party was a Christmas/birthday/Fourth of July, she wouldn’t have even a cup of punch. I respected her dedication, much the more so because she never, never said why. If anybody asked, she just answered, “Oh, no, thanks, not for me today, another time, thanks.” Very pleasantly and without a hint of martyrdom, offense or proselytizing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-offended-by-the-christmas-offended/478212.md?page=6)