# I'm out of sticks and carrots. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 10, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301 "2015-02-10T16:44:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/141 "2015-02-12T17:26:03Z")
> [@MissTake](#): > > Unfortunately, on this message board, trade school/tech schools are frowned upon. If true, I think that’s a problem that most of America has. For a good 30 years, we’ve been looking down on the trades and insisting that only a 4-year college degree is any good. This is stupid. The world needs welders and plumbers, and welders and plumbers make good money. Trades are good solid honorable jobs. And a lot of people are far better suited to them than to office work. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/142 "2015-02-12T19:01:44Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You know, I’m glad this worked for you, but it fills me with rage. What the hell is the point of her history class, if it isn’t to give you an opportunity to learn history? She wants to teach a work habits class, she should sign up to teach a work habits course. Call it dronery 101 or something, see how many folk take it. If you already know all the material in her class and can ace the class without doing homework, either she’s failed as a teacher by not giving you an appropriate challenge, or your school has failed you by putting you in her class. > > The goal of a history class should be to learn history. Not to learn to jump through hoops. Every child has ample fucking opportunity to learn that trick in their time in school, and it’s not the teacher’s job to make students jump through pointless hoops. > > Teachers like that, IMO, need to be removed from the classroom. Not because she gave you a failing grade, but because she failed to teach you. I strongly disagree. There are a handful of people out there that know so much about a subject that they have no need to learn any more about it. Those people are, of course, doing original research, publishing articles, winning awards and inventing stuff. The rest of us can basically always benefit by digging a little deeper and trying a little harder. Got the high school essay down pat? Try to write a college-level one. If that’s too easy, aim for a grad-school essay. If that’s too easy, see if you can write something publishable. Once you get there, we can talk about you not having to waste time on homework. Learning how to rise to a challenge is a valuable skill, and it’s one that even the smartest person will eventually need to learn. And for bright people especially, life isn’t going to spoon feed you challenges. You need to learn how to push yourself to learn and progress, not learn how to find shortcuts and cop outs. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/143 "2015-02-12T19:23:53Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > If true, I think that’s a problem that most of America has. For a good 30 years, we’ve been looking down on the trades and insisting that only a 4-year college degree is any good. This is stupid. The world needs welders and plumbers, and welders and plumbers make good money. Trades are good solid honorable jobs. And a lot of people are far better suited to them than to office work. Yeah, just witness people like Carlin working stuff like “if your job has you wearing a name tag, you’ve pretty much made all the wrong choices in life” into their material. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/144 "2015-02-12T20:02:02Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I strongly disagree. > > There are a handful of people out there that know so much about a subject that they have no need to learn any more about it. Those people are, of course, doing original research, publishing articles, winning awards and inventing stuff. The rest of us can basically always benefit by digging a little deeper and trying a little harder. Got the high school essay down pat? Try to write a college-level one. If that’s too easy, aim for a grad-school essay. If that’s too easy, see if you can write something publishable. Once you get there, we can talk about you not having to waste time on homework. > > Learning how to rise to a challenge is a valuable skill, and it’s one that even the smartest person will eventually need to learn. And for bright people especially, life isn’t going to spoon feed you challenges. You need to learn how to push yourself to learn and progress, not learn how to find shortcuts and cop outs. What are you disagreeing with? That’s what he said. The teacher is failing by not teaching the student. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/145 "2015-02-12T22:46:41Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Possibly he’s not going to step up until you are ready to step out. You sound quite strident in your expectations of what he ought to do and how he ought to go about it. Maybe it’s time for you to put that aside? I’m coming around to this conclusion as well. I’m exhausted with trying to motivate him with rewards and punish him with taking away provileges. It’s never really worked and it’s less and less effective as he gets older. I think I’m ready to hand over the keys to his life to him and let him drive to figure it all out. Be there if he asks for directions but otherwise just watch and see what happens. He’s a good kid in his head and in his heart. I have to learn to trust him and let him figure it out for himself his own way. ---
**Author:** ![No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_umlaut_for_U)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/146 "2015-02-12T23:15:17Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Does he make enough to pay for his own gas and car insurance without the good student discount? Then I’d let him ask me if he could borrow my car when he needs it. Whether or not I said yes would depend on my whim at the moment and why he wants it. Does he have enough money to buy and maintain his own car? Then he can buy a car. > > Grades aren’t related to cars. Making money to afford a car is. Tie the car to the grades, and the connection makes sense to you (it’s a “stick”). To him, it’s just Dad being a dick. He literally sees no connection other than your choosing to hold power over him because you can. The consequences for not doing schoolwork is flunking…if only his teachers would do it. I would NOT be happy with their enabling behavior, and we’d be having strong words about that. They’re perpetuating the problem. If he gets a job and doesn’t stock the jeans by 3, the boss is not going to say, “Oh, that’s okay, you can go organize the t-shirts instead.” > > Really, you might be able to ignore everything I said earlier. Now that I know the \*teachers \*are letting him get away with this nonsense with “bonus work,” I’m leaning towards, “The kid is brilliant. He’s figured out how to game the system. He doesn’t have to do any work until the last two weeks of the semester. Go, Kid! But good luck with that in the long term…” > > Yes, encourage him to get his _license_. You never know when he might be the only sober kid at a party and need to drive his friend’s car. You never know when you might need him to drive somewhere. Let him get a license because not having a license is an actual handicap in the burbs, not just an inconvenience. Having one’s own car is a different matter. I have to agree here. It sounded like a car is a “necessity” where **QuickSilver** lives. I have my doubts, but… A driver’s license is the real necessity. There were a lot of times in my teens and twenties where I was the soberest one after a party. Not only having a license, but back then, knowing stick shift was vital. And, I completely agree that you may need him to drive you after a medical appointment or in case of your injury. The people advocating a part-time job are making sense to me. Sometimes you can use limited time more efficiently than unlimited time. Then he can have the car and pay for the insurance. Also, when (if) he goes to college, crap grades are excusable if the kid is working 20 hours/week. If he doesn’t go to college, the odds are that the grades are irrelevant, but a good work ethic is not. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/147 "2015-02-13T00:49:48Z")
Now IS the time of his life that you want him to make blunders and errors, if that what it’s going to take, for him to find his footing. Not at college. Not on his first job, or first marriage, or graduate school. Now IS the best time. I’m pretty confident you’ve raised a fine young man. Now is that very, very difficult time of life when you are faced with trusting that he’ll find his way. Take heart. Have confidence. But mostly shift your expectations from, grades, college, etc, to the expectation that he’ll surprize you and impress you in time. Invest yourself in expecting him to be awesome, and I don’t think you’ll be disappointed! ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/148 "2015-02-13T00:49:56Z")
I haven’t exhaustively read through every post in this thread, so this may have been answered already but: Have you asked him what he wants to do with his life? Not just near-term (HS / College), but what career (if any) he wants. And, how he plans to get there? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/149 "2015-02-13T01:16:21Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I strongly disagree. > > There are a handful of people out there that know so much about a subject that they have no need to learn any more about it. Those people are, of course, doing original research, publishing articles, winning awards and inventing stuff. The rest of us can basically always benefit by digging a little deeper and trying a little harder. Got the high school essay down pat? Try to write a college-level one. If that’s too easy, aim for a grad-school essay. If that’s too easy, see if you can write something publishable. Once you get there, we can talk about you not having to waste time on homework. > > Learning how to rise to a challenge is a valuable skill, and it’s one that even the smartest person will eventually need to learn. And for bright people especially, life isn’t going to spoon feed you challenges. You need to learn how to push yourself to learn and progress, not learn how to find shortcuts and cop outs. As I agreed in my last post, it depends entirely on the nature of the homework. If the homework was a bunch of short-answer questions (When was the Battle of Jericho fought? Where is General Grant buried? etc.), and if he already knew that stuff, there’s no value at all in his doing the work. If it’s more in-depth homework that requires more than regurgitating facts, then yeah, he should be doing it. Everything you said about working deeper is, in light of this distinction, totally irrelevant :). ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/150 "2015-02-13T02:39:46Z")
Nothing constructive to add, but the thread title made me think of this comic: [![](https://assets.amuniversal.com/ef3842a0af7f012e2f8800163e41dd5b) ](https://assets.amuniversal.com/ef3842a0af7f012e2f8800163e41dd5b) ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/151 "2015-02-13T04:47:24Z")
I don’t necessarily feel I have anything substantial to add but, in the way of humanity, feel I must submit my two cents. On the one hand, I was the classic kid who did homework and didn’t turn it in. The thing is, I could say it was “because high school was bullshit” or whatever, but honestly? I’d give you the same frustrating answer I gave my parents - I dunno. Seriously. I dunno. As usual, the incomparable WhyNot is doing her thing. And I can’t speak from a parenting perspective because my little guy is almost 7 months old but I bought that Parenting With Love and Logic book on her advice and while it would kill me from day one I do feel it is the best of advice. And third, seriously, ignore the vast majority of the people who float that whole “oh he just sees through the ridiculousness of high school just like I did” people. At some point everybody learns the lesson that you have to show up. You can do it now or you can do it later. High school is an opportunity, shittily, to learn that everybody has to do things they don’t want to do and exist alongside people they hate. Even astronauts do a ton of paperwork. And yes, I radically underperformed in high school but I am not proud of that nor can I explain it. ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/152 "2015-02-13T05:50:25Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > My son hated high school with the fury of 1000 suns. We took him to see therapists, stayed on top of his teachers, worked with the guidance department. Threatened, punished, rewarded, ignored. Nothing made a whit of difference. He’s gifted in math and he failed math, for not doing any homework. We did move right before his senior year, which seemed to shake him out of his sloth a bit and his senior year was better. > > He graduated and was accepted into college. He made the freshman honor society last year, two semester’s of Dean’s list and just missed Dean’s list last semester. He is taking a technical and hard major. He loves being in charge of himself, setting his own schedule and working toward a career, not just jumping through high school hoops. > > I don’t know if it’s the same for your child, but middle school and high school were just not for him. We barely survived, but now, half through his sophomore year, we’re doing great. I’m stunned. Man alive, this was me 100%. I loathed school and it wasn’t until I realized I had to finish this crap up or I’d have to STAY EVEN LONGER that I decided to start doing some work. Maybe Jr year or so. So my last 2 years I pulled Bs and Cs then was thrilled to just get DONE. College? Whole other ballgame. Picking my own classes, having some control over the process- it was like heaven in comparison. In my 2 year school I even served first as the Student Trustee and then the President of our Student Government. My parents nearly fainted to see my sitting on the stage at graduation and giving a speech. Looking back and knowing what I know now, had it been available I would have loved to have done online high school. I think I would have done great at that, honestly- work at the pace I want to (fast to get it over with), no eternally long lecture classes with the teacher instructing to the lowest skill level in the class. Being able to take a pee without getting a written damned hallway pass. I needed my freedom young- I think if I’d had it there may have been a world of difference. Just my 2 cents ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/153 "2015-02-13T06:01:24Z")
Oh and I meant to add- as a grown up now what I found (in jobs and in life) is that I like to be in charge. No, I MUST be in charge. Whatever job I’ve had for the last I don’t even know how long, as soon as I start I bust my ass crazy until I’m running the place. I make the decisions. I see the rewards of my work. I find it extremely fulfilling. Is there anything (volunteer work like with a boys club, something like that) where he can be a leader and see if that trips his trigger? One other thing- don’t be like my parents were- when I was in college and working my ass off because I decided “Hey, I LIKE these classes and these projects are a fun challenge” (which I decided on my own with no pressure) don’t bring up the fact that he used to not do homework, be directionless, etc. Mine used to love it- I in my 4th year of college and doing great and my mom would STILL ask me if I bothered doing homework or not. If he comes around just be supportive and go from there, don’t make the past a huge issue. I remember it being a LONG time in college before I realized that I WASN’T lazy or stupid or whatever. I was just…lost in high school. My college instructors didn’t know me with those labels so I was able to start fresh and excel, it was very empowering. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/154 "2015-02-13T08:23:25Z")
As a high school teacher, here’s what I see: a great kid who refuses to “play school”. He’s personable, respectful, and does his work in class. (If he refused to work in class, he’d become a discipline issue or he’d get an F. We don’t tolerate that shit.) He’s nice to the other kids. But he doesn’t do homework, he doesn’t stay after school for extra credit bullshit (until the end of the marking period, when it’s not really “extra” credit, it’s “make-up credit” for the homework he skipped or re-taking tests). He probably half-asses some in-class work. I would suspect he gets around C’s on tests, just from being in class. And the teachers like him and make sure his 55%'s become 63%'s or whatever by telling him to get in the 3 biggest assignments he missed before cards come out. (I may be way off, but I doubt it.) What’s the problem? Leave him alone. He’ll be fine. He’s not going to Harvard. And don’t waste money sending him to Third-Tier-State Normal College. Let him know right now, “I will help you with Michigan, Michigan State, or Wayne State. If you can’t get in, it’s Henry Ford Community College. I’m not spending $30k a year for Ferris State.” And mean it. But for Christ’s sake, get him the car! Every red-blooded American boy deserves a used car with a big red bow on the hood for his 16th birthday. He’s really going to be okay. Worst case scenario: he graduates with a 2.0 and goes to CC. He’ll figure out by the end of September that his friends are away having the time of their lives, and he’s home with you. Here’s a secret, but don’t tell him yet: your state’s big research universities HAVE to take CC students–that’s the system. And all credits transfer, for the most part. He can graduate from HS with 1.0, get A’s for a year at CC, and transfer to Cal or UCLA. (Colleges don’t usually ask for HS transcripts, once you have a college transcript.) If you just can’t resist trying to monitor his grades, make him have every teacher sign his homework planner everyday. When that falls through, and it will, have his teachers email you his assignments each day. Then you can spend the next two years standing sentry over him every night and getting pissed at the teachers who don’t follow through. But who wants to do that? He sounds like a great kid; enjoy the next two years. He’s eventually gonna want to try some of the stuff he’s seen on the Internet with a real girl. There’ll be dates, and Proms, and football Fridays, and parties, and fender benders. (And maybe even hangovers.) Enjoy these years. Don’t let school affect your home life. He’s getting D’s, for now; you can enjoy each other or you can make both of you miserable. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/155 "2015-02-13T11:53:48Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > As a high school teacher, here’s what I see: a great kid who refuses to “play school”. He’s personable, respectful, and does his work in class. (If he refused to work in class, he’d become a discipline issue or he’d get an F. We don’t tolerate that shit.) He’s nice to the other kids. But he doesn’t do homework, he doesn’t stay after school for extra credit bullshit (until the end of the marking period, when it’s not really “extra” credit, it’s “make-up credit” for the homework he skipped or re-taking tests). He probably half-asses some in-class work. I would suspect he gets around C’s on tests, just from being in class. And the teachers like him and make sure his 55%'s become 63%'s or whatever by telling him to get in the 3 biggest assignments he missed before cards come out. (I may be way off, but I doubt it.) You must be one of my son’s teachers. Small world. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/156 "2015-02-13T12:16:59Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Every red-blooded American boy deserves a used car with a big red bow on the hood for his 16th birthday. Um, no. No one “deserves” anything, let alone a free car. If he were busting his ass in school, maybe. But I see nothing wrong with the OP requiring his son to use his savings to buy one. If the OP has other children, and these children do work hard in school, what message does it send them if this “red-blooded American boy” gets whatever he wants without having to work for it? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/157 "2015-02-13T14:17:09Z")
> [@](#): > > But for Christ’s sake, get him the car! Every red-blooded American boy deserves a used car with a big red bow on the hood for his 16th birthday. why? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/158 "2015-02-13T14:29:27Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > But for Christ’s sake, get him the car! Every red-blooded American boy deserves a used car with a big red bow on the hood for his 16th birthday. I guess us red-blooded American girls don’t! Or maybe I am not even a red-blooded American, since I am a filthy furriner and all that. 🙂 But seriously, no one deserves a car. I shared my mother’s until I demonstrated valid need for my own (I was already in college and walking to work.) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/159 "2015-02-13T14:40:28Z")
As an Asian-American, I’m really fortunate (and thankful) that my parents weren’t the demanding, “You must get an A+!” type of Asian parent. In fact I think they purposefully tried to steer as far away from that attitude as possible. I can’t ever remember being lectured about my grades - my grades were rarely bad, but they weren’t particularly high either. But I still felt really bad about getting mediocre grades, I think significantly more so than many of my peers who were of other races. I think it just shows that the Asian culture of feeling bad about mediocre academic performance can still permeate through generations even if a set of parents decide that they want to steer as far away from that attitude as possible with regards to their kids’ education. It’s just too steeped in that culture. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301/160 "2015-02-13T16:14:36Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > What’s the problem? Leave him alone. He’ll be fine. I can’t imagine a middle class African-American father telling his African-American son “hey, you’re a nice kid with a good heart. Don’t worry about grades or fulfilling stereotypes! You’ll be fine whatever you do!” It must be great to demonstrate mediocrity and still be able to ride on good looks, charming personality, and perceived intelligence. Black kid fucks up in school and he’s castigated for equating excellence with “being white”. White kid fucks up in school and everyone assumes he’s a late-blooming genius bored out of his mind. Black kid doing bad in school =\> let’s hang our heads in shame White kid doing bad in school =\> let’s give that red-blooded American a car! The thing that gets me? The OP’s son probably is going to be alright. But it won’t be because he’s special. It’s because he had the good sense to be born white, male, and in an upper middle-class home. He could drop out of high school right now and [and land a job faster than a black male who has graduated from college](http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2014/06/27/white-high-school-drop-outs-are-as-likely-to-land-jobs-as-black-college-students/). It must be nice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-out-of-sticks-and-carrots/712301.md?page=9)