# I'm over #BLM **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 14, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824 "2017-10-14T15:43:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/1 "2017-10-14T15:43:27Z")
Yep, it’s enough. Black Lives Matters, as a movement, needs to get its shit together. > **[Opinion | Texas legislator shouted down at Texas Southern University law...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/10/10/texas-legislator-shouted-down-at-texas-southern-university-law-school-speech-called-off-by-university-president-for-lack-of-central-campus-authorization/?utm_term=.cac2a33779d7)** > > The speech was by Rep. Briscoe Cain, at the Thurgood Marshall School of Law, sponsored by the local Federalist Society chapter, and apparently authorized by the law school (though not cleared by central campus); the university is a public university. …This is why you need organizations, not just movements. Because with movements, any jackass with a megaphone can call themselves part of the movement, do stupid jackass shit, and there’s nobody who can stand up and say, “Hey, sorry, they don’t represent us or our movement, and we think they’re kind of assholes.” Then again, I can’t help but wonder if I’m being optimistic if the majority of the movement wouldn’t applaud this fuckers. Let’s leave aside the currently unclear details about whether or not the legislator technically had all his paperwork in order - I’d give it pretty good odds that these protesters did the same thing. In the last week, Black Lives Matters protesters have disrupted the ACLU, and now an elected state legislator. I don’t _care_ if that legislator is a homophobe, or a misogynist, or a racist. You guys think most of the republican party is homophobic, misogynistic, or racist. That’s an _elected official of your state_ - like it or not, your statesmen elected this guy, and that earns him some respect. Or maybe it doesn’t in your mind. Maybe, in your mind, becoming a state legislator doesn’t mean shit, and he shouldn’t be allowed to speak, invited by a campus group or not. Well okay. How 'bout this: this asshole gets to vote on _[whether your school continues to exist in its current form](https://fredrikdeboer.com/2017/07/11/the-mass-defunding-of-higher-education-thats-yet-to-come/)_. His constituents, by and large, have decided that higher education is a bad thing. They’re idiots, but they vote. _In what universe do you see this as a good idea_?! And yeah, it was doubly boneheaded for the administration of the college to go along with this. Stupid stupid stupid. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/2 "2017-10-14T16:11:03Z")
Sounds more like TSU needs to get their shit together and you need to practice your reading comprehension skills. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/3 "2017-10-14T16:17:55Z")
Perhaps they were students from the MLK jr. school of ruckus raising?[ > [@Letter from a Birmingham Jail](#): > > You may well ask: “Why direct action? **Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?** ” You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. **Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue.** It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. ]([Letter from a Birmingham Jail [King, Jr.]](https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html))Sometimes, being a jackass (who is near universally hated) is a requirement to highlight an issue you feel is important. If your issue is truly imperative in your mind then take the hit, be that jackass/clown. Yes you’ll be hated by everyone (even possible allies) but your issue needs the spotlight. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/4 "2017-10-14T16:28:18Z")
I think the more important detail of the linked article is that BLM came, protested and were sent away by the TSU authorities. Only then did the TSU president stop the speech because he thought it wasn’t properly cleared or authorized by TSU. So the blame here lies squarely with TSU not BLM. > [@WaPo article](#): > > “Eventually, the protesters were removed,” but then Cain was almost immediately stopped by TSU President Austin Lane. > > Lane announced organizers did not take appropriate measures to schedule the speech. > > “What you’re seeing today is an unapproved event,” Dr. Lane said. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/5 "2017-10-14T16:29:23Z")
Duly noted **QuickSilver** ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/6 "2017-10-14T16:45:55Z")
Well, the speaking engagement was an unapproved activity, and you can’t just allow any old random speech, it could be dangerous. As TSU policy states: “Freedom of Expression is applicable to students, faculty and staff, who wish to engage in extracurricular, organized expressive activities” No disorganized extracurricular speech permitted, it’s right there in the document. And better watch what you say in class too, just in case. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/7 "2017-10-14T16:47:44Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Perhaps they were students from the MLK jr. school of ruckus raising?[URL=“[Letter from a Birmingham Jail [King, Jr.]](https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html)”]Sometimes, being a jackass (who is near universally hated) is a requirement to highlight an issue you feel is important. If your issue is truly imperative in your mind then take the hit, be that jackass/clown. Yes you’ll be hated by everyone (even possible allies) but your issue needs the spotlight. There’s a huge difference between direct action and “being a jackass”. Nobody is saying that BLM should stop protesting or taking other similar types of action. (Virtually) Everyone is saying that they should stop being jackasses and doing things like shouting down invited speakers. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/8 "2017-10-14T16:50:55Z")
> [@treis](#): > > There’s a huge difference between direct action and “being a jackass”. Nobody is saying that BLM should stop protesting or taking other similar types of action. (Virtually) Everyone is saying that they should stop being jackasses and doing things like shouting down invited speakers. Moot point when the speech was not approved. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/9 "2017-10-14T17:14:45Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Moot point when the speech was not approved. Shouting down a speaker makes you a jackass whether the speech was “approved” or not. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/10 "2017-10-14T17:15:11Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Nobody is saying that BLM should stop protesting or taking other similar types of action. (Virtually) Everyone is saying that they should stop being jackasses and doing things like shouting down invited speakers. But we’ve already established they’re also not supposed to make non-confrontational symbolic protests like kneeling during the national anthem. Could you guys help us out here and let us know how ineffective and unobtrusive a protest has to be before it’s considered acceptable to people with opposing views? And while we’re on the subject, could somebody clear up what the opposition view to Black Lives Matter is? Black Lives Don’t Matter? Black Lives Matter In Theory? Black Lives Matter But Not Enough To Get Worked Up About? Some Black Lives Matter And The Ones That Were Killed Were The Other Ones? Some People Think Black Lives Matter And Some People Think Killing Black People Is Okay And Why Can’t We Find An Acceptable Middle Ground? Stop Talking About How Racism Is Still Around Because It Upsets Me? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/11 "2017-10-14T17:21:12Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > That’s an _elected official of your state_ - like it or not, your statesmen elected this guy, and that earns him some respect. Not really, no. If you’re going to say or do offensive stuff, being an elected official is no shield. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/12 "2017-10-14T17:31:37Z")
Goddamn Bureau of Land Management! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/13 "2017-10-14T18:21:38Z")
😕 _ **The only purpose of inviting a speaker to a campus is to protest that speaker.** _ Nothing a speaker might say could have any value except as ridicule-bait on YouTube. In the olden days, Americans had a concept called [_dialog_ (3)](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/dialog). We would listen to each other, even if we knew we were in disagreement, to understand an alternate point of view. We might listen to a speaker we opposed so we could pose questions to him on his own terms. But now we live in the New America. Millennials and post-Millennials will have to watch old Hollywood movies if they are intrigued by the antique concept of _dialog_. Listening to facts is pointless; facts today are all #FakeFacts (though, like the famous stopped clock, some might be true by chance). Nobody will ever change his or her mind. The only purpose of political activity today is to provoke violence, in order to agitate those who are already aligned. Media and law enforcement can no longer be trusted; the only valid source of political information today is YouTubes of violence uploaded from smart-phones. Increasingly the country will turn to “2nd Amendment solutions,” with the Trumpists therefore having the advantage, of course. Betting markets are already predicting that Trump will be re-elected if he runs in 2020. America has turned into a dismal quagmire, a tragicomedy unequaled in the history of Western civilization. I am lucky to be so old that I may not have to witness much more of this ever-deepening devastation. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/14 "2017-10-14T18:34:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And while we’re on the subject, could somebody clear up what the opposition view to Black Lives Matter is? I assume it’s “Blue Lives Matter,” aka “It’s okay for the cops to gun down black people, because the black people in the situations are all soulless subhuman murderers who would happily gun down cops, so the cops had better shoot first.” ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/15 "2017-10-14T18:35:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But we’ve already established they’re also not supposed to make non-confrontational symbolic protests like kneeling during the national anthem. Could you guys help us out here and let us know how ineffective and unobtrusive a protest has to be before it’s considered acceptable to people with opposing views? This is pretty fucking stupid. I have zero problem with athletes kneeling during the national anthem. I have no problem with them doing that as a symbolic protest, nor do I have any problem with the specific message they’re trying to convey–in fact, not only do I have no problem with it, but I actually agree with them.\* I do have a big problem with _anybody_ trying to just “shout down” people with whom they disagree; not just arguing against the opposing viewpoint, or even just loudly stating that the opposing viewpoint is stupid and wrong and immoral, but actively and physically trying to prevent other people from being able to talk at all. Of course I can’t speak for the OP, but I’m guessing he has broadly similar views. \*I can imagine if some other group had done something like the kneeling-during-the-anthem thing to protest against, say, our having a Kenyan-born President: I would have thought their message and cause were utterly stupid and wrong (and even immoral, on account of being racist), but would never have said they should be forced to stand in order to Show Respect For Our Flag!!1! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/16 "2017-10-14T18:46:28Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I can imagine if some other group had done something like the kneeling-during-the-anthem thing to protest against, say, our having a Kenyan-born President: I would have thought their message and cause were utterly stupid and wrong (and even immoral, on account of being racist), but would never have said they should be forced to stand in order to Show Respect For Our Flag!!1! And I’m sure Barack Obama wouldn’t have threatened the NFL over it. But we now have a President who says speech he doesn’t agree with should be repressed while speech he agrees with should be protected. As I pointed out a couple of weeks ago, these two public statements were delivered **on the same day** : President Trump: _“The NFL has all sorts of rules and regulations. The only way out for them is to set a rule that you can’t kneel during our National Anthem!”_ Attorney General Sessions: \*“Protesters are now routinely shutting down speeches and debates across the country in an effort to silence voices that insufficiently conform with their views.” \* ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/17 "2017-10-14T18:52:26Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Shouting down a speaker makes you a jackass whether the speech was “approved” or not. The jackass was removed, it happens that the speaker was not really invited. The Federalist Society were **also** jackasses. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/18 "2017-10-14T18:52:43Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > This is pretty fucking stupid. I have zero problem with athletes kneeling during the national anthem. I have no problem with them doing that as a symbolic protest, nor do I have any problem with the specific message they’re trying to convey–in fact, not only do I have no problem with it, but I actually agree with them.\* > > I do have a big problem with _anybody_ trying to just “shout down” people with whom they disagree; not just arguing against the opposing viewpoint, or even just loudly stating that the opposing viewpoint is stupid and wrong and immoral, but actively and physically trying to prevent other people from being able to talk at all. I have a problem if it evolves into violence, and I will say that shouting down like that does risk evolving into violence, but, at the same time, just as a speaker has a right to speak, a shouter has a right to shout. Within the venue, or obstructing access to avenue, not so much, but if people want to gather outside a venue in a public area and make their opinion heard at whatever volume their lungs can handle, that’s free speech right there, too. > [@](#): > > Of course I can’t speak for the OP, but I’m guessing he has broadly similar views. > > \*I can imagine if some other group had done something like the kneeling-during-the-anthem thing to protest against, say, our having a Kenyan-born President: I would have thought their message and cause were utterly stupid and wrong (and even immoral, on account of being racist), but would never have said they should be forced to stand in order to Show Respect For Our Flag!!1! What message are fans sending by booing during the national anthem? While I find that to be much more disrespectful and disturbing than a player taking a knee, I would not say that they either should be forced to show respect for our flag. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/19 "2017-10-14T18:54:14Z")
> [@treis](#): > > There’s a huge difference between direct action and “being a jackass”. Nobody is saying that BLM should stop protesting or taking other similar types of action. (Virtually) Everyone is saying that they should stop being jackasses and doing things like shouting down invited speakers. **Disobedience** and **direct action** is done solely to demand a **response** (by introducing a little anarchy and preventing daily affairs). What are you going to do? Rebuke them? Denounce them? Fight them? All good options. But will you continue to live your life apathetic/indifferent to the **now growing** social/legal tension?..Maybe…However if you do take that route then you will have **truly** defeated these BLM protesters. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/20 "2017-10-14T18:55:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But we’ve already established they’re also not supposed to make non-confrontational symbolic protests like kneeling during the national anthem. Could you guys help us out here and let us know how ineffective and unobtrusive a protest has to be before it’s considered acceptable to people with opposing views? It’s too bad those are literally the only two options for protesting. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824.md?page=2)