# I'm over #BLM **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 14, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824 "2017-10-14T15:43:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/21 "2017-10-14T18:57:47Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > **Disobedience** and **direct action** is done solely to demand a **response** (by introducing a little anarchy and preventing daily affairs). > > What are you going to do? Rebuke them? Denounce them? Fight them? All good options. > > But will you continue to live your life apathetic/indifferent to the **now growing** social/legal tension?..Maybe…However if you do take that route then you will have **truly** defeated these BLM protesters. If you have to resort to being a jackass to get people to pay attention to you it’s because your message is shit. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/22 "2017-10-14T19:00:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And I’m sure Barack Obama wouldn’t have threatened the NFL over it. > > But we now have a President who says speech he doesn’t agree with should be repressed while speech he agrees with should be protected. > > As I pointed out a couple of weeks ago, these two public statements were delivered **on the same day** : > > President Trump: _“The NFL has all sorts of rules and regulations. The only way out for them is to set a rule that you can’t kneel during our National Anthem!”_ > > Attorney General Sessions: \*“Protesters are now routinely shutting down speeches and debates across the country in an effort to silence voices that insufficiently conform with their views.” \* I’m still failing to see your point, there, **Little Nemo**. Donald fucking Trump is an asshole, and what’s more, he’s mentally and morally unfit to hold _any_ public office, let alone President of the United States. And of course I disagree with his statements about the NFL protests, as I do with about 99.7% of what he says about everything. (I mean…Ivanka _is_ pretty hot, although I’m firmly convinced she’s basically evil.) Jeff Sessions is _also_ an asshole, and I mostly disagree with him, too. On that particular statement, he may actually be right, in a stopped-clock, blind-squirrel sort of way. (Of, if you’re just pointing out that Jeff Sessions is also a fucking hypocrite, you’ll get no argument from me on that either. But being a hypocrite doesn’t actually make his hypocritical arguments _wrong_.) > [@k9bfriender](#): > > I have a problem if it evolves into violence, and I will say that shouting down like that does risk evolving into violence, but, at the same time, just as a speaker has a right to speak, a shouter has a right to shout. > > Within the venue, or obstructing access to avenue, not so much, but if people want to gather outside a venue in a public area and make their opinion heard at whatever volume their lungs can handle, that’s free speech right there, too. The protests that people are getting angry about are _specifically_ about obstructing access to venues and preventing speakers from speaking by shouting and being disruptive within the venue. _Of course_ free speech includes the right to assemble outside and chant and wave signs. If _that_ was all any of this anti-BLM brouhaha was about, I’d say “Welcome to fucking America! Make sure the air conditioning is on and close the windows, then turn up the microphone, ya fucking crybabies!” ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/23 "2017-10-14T19:08:40Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Moot point when the speech was not approved. It was approved by the law school. > [@Gatopescado](#): > > Goddamn Bureau of Land Management! That joke hasn’t ceased being funny after the 201938th time on this board. > [@septimus](#): > > 😕 _ **The only purpose of inviting a speaker to a campus is to protest that speaker.** _ Nothing a speaker might say could have any value except as ridicule-bait on YouTube. > > In the olden days, Americans had a concept called [_dialog_ (3)](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/dialog). We would listen to each other, even if we knew we were in disagreement, to understand an alternate point of view. We might listen to a speaker we opposed so we could pose questions to him on his own terms. > > But now we live in the New America. Millennials and post-Millennials will have to watch old Hollywood movies if they are intrigued by the antique concept of _dialog_. Listening to facts is pointless; facts today are all #FakeFacts (though, like the famous stopped clock, some might be true by chance). Nobody will ever change his or her mind. The only purpose of political activity today is to provoke violence, in order to agitate those who are already aligned. Media and law enforcement can no longer be trusted; the only valid source of political information today is YouTubes of violence uploaded from smart-phones. > > Increasingly the country will turn to “2nd Amendment solutions,” with the Trumpists therefore having the advantage, of course. Betting markets are already predicting that Trump will be re-elected if he runs in 2020. > > America has turned into a dismal quagmire, a tragicomedy unequaled in the history of Western civilization. I am lucky to be so old that I may not have to witness much more of this ever-deepening devastation. Woot! Civil war 2. Hopefully it won’t really come to that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/24 "2017-10-14T19:09:05Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > The protests that people are getting angry about are _specifically_ about obstructing access to venues and preventing speakers from speaking by shouting and being disruptive within the venue. _Of course_ free speech includes the right to assemble outside and chant and wave signs. If _that_ was all any of this anti-BLM brouhaha was about, I’d say “Welcome to fucking America! Make sure the air conditioning is on and close the windows, then turn up the microphone, ya fucking crybabies!” And this protest was one of those that the protesters, IMHO, went a bit too far, by actually entering the venue to shout him down. (Though I don’t have a problem with a protestor that enters a venue, speaks his piece, and then leaves peacefully, that’s civil disobedience, which may have some legal consequence, but I feel is ethically justifiable.) I suppose my post was more giving advice to the protestors in the future (for what good that does), then commenting on or criticizing the protests at hand. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/25 "2017-10-14T19:17:37Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I suppose my post was more giving advice to the protestors in the future (for what good that does), then commenting on or criticizing the protests at hand. Yeah. Another good, solid, proper way of using one’s free speech to protest the free speech of those with whom you disagree: Go to the damn speech, and sit and listen. Take notes, even. Then, during the Q&A–of course this only applies to speeches where there’s a Q&A afterwards–_ask questions_. I don’t just mean jump up during the Q&A and yell “FASCIST PIG!” (or “Why are you a fascist pig?” or “Have you quite beating your wife yet, you fascist pig?”). I mean real, serious, well-thought-out questions that the sonofabitch will actually have to struggle to give good answers to. But of course that would be _hard_. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/26 "2017-10-14T19:19:31Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If you have to resort to being a jackass to get people to pay attention to you it’s because your message is shit. You’ll find that even the shittiest of messages can become quite palatable to a public who’s served many, many, many, repeated courses of **disobedience** and **direct action**. They’ll even swallow gleefully just for a desperate taste of variety. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/27 "2017-10-14T19:28:39Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It was approved by the law school. From the linked article in the OP: > [@](#): > > Texas Southern has more than 119 registered student organizations and clubs for students. Once campus administrators were made aware by our police department of a disturbance at the law school involving our students, they conducted a check of recognized student organizations, it was determined that The Federalist Society was not a sanctioned University organization and proper scheduling procedures were not followed. > [@octopus](#): > > That joke hasn’t ceased being funny after the 201938th time on this board. Well, I will have to check the joke of a source you used to claim that the law school did. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/28 "2017-10-14T19:40:04Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Yeah. Another good, solid, proper way of using one’s free speech to protest the free speech of those with whom you disagree: Go to the damn speech, and sit and listen. Take notes, even. Then, during the Q&A–of course this only applies to speeches where there’s a Q&A afterwards–_ask questions_. I don’t just mean jump up during the Q&A and yell “FASCIST PIG!” (or “Why are you a fascist pig?” or “Have you quite beating your wife yet, you fascist pig?”). I mean real, serious, well-thought-out questions that the sonofabitch will actually have to struggle to give good answers to. > > But of course that would be _hard_. I’ve never understood the admonishment to wait until the Q&A period to speak your piece. In a crowd of dozens, if not hundreds, the chances of you getting to ask your question is remote. And that is assuming that they are calling on everyone at random, and don’t already have the softball questions lined up from audience members. I also would never ask someone to sit and listen to someone openly insult them, and tell them to take notes. As a white cisgendered heterosexual guy, I think I could handle just about any hateful speaker, as even if they direct their hate at me, it just rolls right off, as there is nothing in such a talk that could resonate against me. I could sit, listen, and objectively take notes. If I were gay, and the speaker was talking about how homosexuals are the scourge of decency, or if I were black, and was hearing about how my race is inferior, or a woman, and the speaker was talking about what a slut I am, I don’t know that I could hod my composure that well, and I would not expect another to do so either. It’s easy to say, “just sit and listen”, when it is not you that is being disparaged as a subhuman piece of trash that has no right to exist in this country, it’s a bit harder to actually do when it is you that is under attack. Tell me, what would you recommend to a young student whose demographic is specifically attacked by this speaker, who sat, listened, took notes and waited for a chance to ask questions, only to not be called upon to ask their question, and instead all the questions are taken from audience members who agree with the speaker on what a terrible person that student’s demographic is? That’s 2/3rds of your post, and pretty much the entirety of your advice there that I do not think is something that actually would serve any purpose to the vast majority of people who are under attack by these speakers. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/29 "2017-10-14T19:45:16Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Moot point when the speech was not approved. Did the guys from #BLM know that when they came to stir shit up? I _seriously_ doubt it. And the point where your state legislator is being bullied by shitbags is the time to back up the legislator, not play rules nazi. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But we’ve already established they’re also not supposed to make non-confrontational symbolic protests like kneeling during the national anthem. I think the NFL protest is about the most inoffensive thing I have ever seen, and the right wing outrage about it is ludicrous. This still doesn’t make this a good idea. > [@](#): > > And while we’re on the subject, could somebody clear up what the opposition view to Black Lives Matter is? Black Lives Don’t Matter? Black Lives Matter In Theory? Black Lives Matter But Not Enough To Get Worked Up About? Some Black Lives Matter And The Ones That Were Killed Were The Other Ones? Some People Think Black Lives Matter And Some People Think Killing Black People Is Okay And Why Can’t We Find An Acceptable Middle Ground? Stop Talking About How Racism Is Still Around Because It Upsets Me? Wow you suck. Here’s an opposition view to Black Lives Matter: the first amendment is important, the ACLU does important work protecting the first amendment, _get a fucking organization together and stop relying on a movement which has become increasingly tarnished by its worst members_. Seriously, so-called “movements” need to fuck right off. If _anyone_ can pick up the mantle of “black lives matter” and do whatever the fuck they want, you end up with jackasses _representing the movement_ who do stupid shit like deplatforming the ACLU or shouting “Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon”. And because there’s no hierarchy, no leadership, _nobody can say that they aren’t part of the movement_. And I’m sorry, I don’t care about the historical precedent, when you deplatform the ACLU, _you have fucked the fuck up_. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Not really, no. If you’re going to say or do offensive stuff, being an elected official is no shield. Reread the post. Particularly this part: Or maybe it doesn’t in your mind. Maybe, in your mind, becoming a state legislator doesn’t mean shit, and he shouldn’t be allowed to speak, invited by a campus group or not. Well okay. How 'bout this: this asshole gets to vote on whether your school continues to exist in its current form. His constituents, by and large, have decided that higher education is a bad thing. They’re idiots, but they vote. In what universe do you see this as a good idea?! > [@septimus](#): > > 😕 _ **The only purpose of inviting a speaker to a campus is to protest that speaker.** _ Nothing a speaker might say could have any value except as ridicule-bait on YouTube. …What the fuck?! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/30 "2017-10-14T20:04:56Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > From the linked article in the OP: > > Well, I will have to check the joke of a source you used to claim that the law school did. Chop chop then. No less than the fate of Western civilization is at stake. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/31 "2017-10-14T20:10:02Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Did the guys from #BLM know that when they came to stir shit up? I _seriously_ doubt it. And the point where your state legislator is being bullied by shitbags is the time to back up the legislator, not play rules nazi. Sorry but rules are rules. Otherwise we would be discussing a lot about ignoring in discussions how when someone or a group resorts to violence it does not allow that group to maintain the right of free speech. (Something that I did already acknowledged when noticing that the jerks from BLM were removed **first**.) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/32 "2017-10-14T20:15:32Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Chop chop then. No less than the fate of Western civilization is at stake. So, someone told you that the school approved the speech when they did not do that. And your solution is to then toss a pot shot to the one asking for your sorry source, but instead of helpfully pointing at the ones that lied to you that it is better to continue to adopt the lie. Well, thank you for showing all that you are the joke. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/33 "2017-10-14T20:22:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I’ve never understood the admonishment to wait until the Q&A period to speak your piece. > > In a crowd of dozens, if not hundreds, the chances of you getting to ask your question is remote. And that is assuming that they are calling on everyone at random, and don’t already have the softball questions lined up from audience members. > > I also would never ask someone to sit and listen to someone openly insult them, and tell them to take notes. > > As a white cisgendered heterosexual guy, I think I could handle just about any hateful speaker, as even if they direct their hate at me, it just rolls right off, as there is nothing in such a talk that could resonate against me. I could sit, listen, and objectively take notes. > > If I were gay, and the speaker was talking about how homosexuals are the scourge of decency, or if I were black, and was hearing about how my race is inferior, or a woman, and the speaker was talking about what a slut I am, I don’t know that I could hod my composure that well, and I would not expect another to do so either. > > It’s easy to say, “just sit and listen”, when it is not you that is being disparaged as a subhuman piece of trash that has no right to exist in this country, it’s a bit harder to actually do when it is you that is under attack. > > Tell me, what would you recommend to a young student whose demographic is specifically attacked by this speaker, who sat, listened, took notes and waited for a chance to ask questions, only to not be called upon to ask their question, and instead all the questions are taken from audience members who agree with the speaker on what a terrible person that student’s demographic is? > > That’s 2/3rds of your post, and pretty much the entirety of your advice there that I do not think is something that actually would serve any purpose to the vast majority of people who are under attack by these speakers. Here’s another thing: You don’t get to assume that every single person who disagrees with you is an Actual Fucking Nazi. Yes, there are Actual Fucking Nazis, right here in 21st century America; if some student group invites an Actual Fucking Nazi to speak at your university, then by all means, that’s more a situation that calls for assembling outside the auditorium and chanting and holding signs, as opposed to taking notes and then asking questions in the Q&A session. The Texas state legislator we’re talking about here in this thread may well be an asshole. I seriously, seriously doubt I would agree with him on a whole range of social, cultural, and political issues. But, given that the most recent prominent case before this one of BLM supporters shouting down people they disagreed with involved BLM supporters shouting down _the American Civil Liberties Union_, I’m damned sure not going to just blithely take the word of anyone identifying themselves as BLM supporters as to who is and is not an Actual Fucking Nazi (white supremacist, “Alt-Right”, etc.), or smile and cede them the moral high ground without even thinking about it, 'cause, hey, I’m a cis-gender heterosexual white male, so what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/34 "2017-10-14T21:04:01Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Here’s another thing: You don’t get to assume that every single person who disagrees with you is an Actual Fucking Nazi. Yes, there are Actual Fucking Nazis, right here in 21st century America; if some student group invites an Actual Fucking Nazi to speak at your university, then by all means, that’s more a situation that calls for assembling outside the auditorium and chanting and holding signs, as opposed to taking notes and then asking questions in the Q&A session. Where do you draw the line? I mean, does it have to be an actual fucking nazi before you are allowed to protest? Is limbaugh an actual fucking nazi? I wouldn’t say he is, but I also would not want to sit and listen to him talk shit about me, if I were one of he groups he talks shit about. How about milo? He’s not really a Nazi, but it’s not like there is any chance for a productive dialogue with him either. Spencer wants to come to UC and Ohio State, even though no groups or student have invited him, and he feels it is his right. Now spencer is pretty close to a nazi, neo-nazi, anyway, definitely white supremacist. He is threatening to sue these schools if they do not give him a platform, even though no one wants him there. The School’s student gop group even specifically said that they don’t want him there. So, if the school gives in to the legal threats, and lets this white supremacist have a venue that not a single student or faculty asked him to take, should people just go and sit and listen? I dunno, there are people other than actual fucking nazis that deserve a protest. > [@](#): > > The Texas state legislator we’re talking about here in this thread may well be an asshole. I seriously, seriously doubt I would agree with him on a whole range of social, cultural, and political issues. But, given that the most recent prominent case before this one of BLM supporters shouting down people they disagreed with involved BLM supporters shouting down _the American Civil Liberties Union_, I’m damned sure not going to just blithely take the word of anyone identifying themselves as BLM supporters as to who is and is not an Actual Fucking Nazi (white supremacist, “Alt-Right”, etc.), or smile and cede them the moral high ground without even thinking about it, 'cause, hey, I’m a cis-gender heterosexual white male, so what do I know? Now, the fact that this guy is a legislature is even more to the point than a speaker. A speaker you can listen to, or not, and it really doesn’t matter. They are just a speaker. This guy is a representative (a state rep, but still), so has actual power. His opinions actually affect the people that are living in the state. Now, in the brief period of time that I’ve been aware of him, I haven’t see anything that he has said or done that makes him a nazi, but he is definitely in the school of conservative thought that tends to enable the white supremacist faction. Very against women’s rights, very for gun rights, if [this meme](https://scontent.fluk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22228637_837991806377178_2068555119038395664_n.jpg?oh=fb6ba774bf8bc57d49636ed76d919ef9&oe=5A7F8FF1) he shared on his facebook apge is to beleived. He is proud to be considered [the most conservative representative in the house](https://www.tribtalk.org/2017/06/09/the-2017-texas-house-from-left-to-right/), so I can see why anyone who is not a conservative wishing to protest against him and his actions that have affected the people of texas. So, yeah, in this case, they were not protesting him just due to what he was going to say, they were protesting him because of what he has done, and plan to do in the future to affect these student’s lives. As far as your last comment, I know it was supposed to be a throw away line, but it is actually a good point. It is not for me, as a white cisgendered heterosexual male to tell someone else to just smile and not to be offended when people are talking about stripping their rights. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/35 "2017-10-14T21:22:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > As far as your last comment, I know it was supposed to be a throw away line, but it is actually a good point. It is not for me, as a white cisgendered heterosexual male to tell someone else to just smile and not to be offended when people are talking about stripping their rights. Who is saying you have to do that? If you don’t want to hear what the person is saying, then what the fuck are you doing there listening to him in the first place. Get your ass up and leave!! That’s a time honored indication of protest. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/36 "2017-10-14T21:26:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Where do you draw the line? I mean, does it have to be an actual fucking nazi before you are allowed to protest? There is no line. That’s the beauty of it. You can protest _ANYONE_. You can protest the ACLU (and the ACLU will undoubtedly defend your right to do so). You cannot “protest” anybody by denying them the right to speak (by blocking access to a venue that person has a right to be speaking at, or by entering the venue and being so disruptive that the speaker simply can’t even speak). Or, if you _do_ choose to protest in those ways, you should be arrested. But, stand outside the auditorium and chant “The ACLU is Un-American!” “God Hates Fags!” “Goddess Hates Breeders!” “Liberalism Is White Supremacy!” “9/11 Was An Inside Job!” “Up Is Down and 2+5=5!”–that’s your constitutionally-protected right. “But what about Nazis? Can’t we ‘de-platform’ people if they’re actual Nazis?” NO! Why not? Because there’s a slippery slope, that’s why. And how do I know there’s a slippery slope? (I mean, isn’t “slippery slope” a logical fallacy?) I know there’s a slippery slope because _ **some BLM supporters blocked and “de-platformed” the American Civil Liberties Union** _. So, nobody gets to unilaterally decide which other people have the right to free speech, not even if those other people really are Actual Fucking Nazis. As to when you should protest by standing outside and chanting and waving signs, and when you should protest by going inside and asking the motherfucker questions, and when you should engage in respectful dialogue on the basis of mutual respect and civility–again, _ALL_ of that must decided by each individual person, on the basis of his or her own conscience, reason, and experience. Different people will undoubtedly decide differently; even while some people are inside getting their hardball questions ready for the Q&A session, other people will be outside chanting and waving signs. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/37 "2017-10-14T21:33:17Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > There is no line. That’s the beauty of it. You can protest _ANYONE_. You can protest the ACLU (and the ACLU will undoubtedly defend your right to do so). > > You cannot “protest” anybody by denying them the right to speak (by blocking access to a venue that person has a right to be speaking at, or by entering the venue and being so disruptive that the speaker simply can’t even speak). Or, if you _do_ choose to protest in those ways, you should be arrested. > > But, stand outside the auditorium and chant “The ACLU is Un-American!” “God Hates Fags!” “Goddess Hates Breeders!” “Liberalism Is White Supremacy!” “9/11 Was An Inside Job!” “Up Is Down and 2+5=5!”–that’s your constitutionally-protected right. > > “But what about Nazis? Can’t we ‘de-platform’ people if they’re actual Nazis?” > > NO! > > Why not? > > Because there’s a slippery slope, that’s why. And how do I know there’s a slippery slope? (I mean, isn’t “slippery slope” a logical fallacy?) > > I know there’s a slippery slope because _ **some BLM supporters blocked and “de-platformed” the American Civil Liberties Union** _. > > So, nobody gets to unilaterally decide which other people have the right to free speech, not even if those other people really are Actual Fucking Nazis. > > As to when you should protest by standing outside and chanting and waving signs, and when you should protest by going inside and asking the motherfucker questions, and when you should engage in respectful dialogue on the basis of mutual respect and civility–again, _ALL_ of that must decided by each individual person, on the basis of his or her own conscience, reason, and experience. Different people will undoubtedly decide differently; even while some people are inside getting their hardball questions ready for the Q&A session, other people will be outside chanting and waving signs. We do draw the line at the threat of imminent violence, though. You aren’t free, per my understanding of the latest jurisprudence, to say “OK, I want everyone to load their guns and follow me. We’re going to shoot and kill every black person protesting this rally RIGHT NOW!!” ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/38 "2017-10-14T21:39:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We do draw the line at the threat of imminent violence, though. You aren’t free, per my understanding of the latest jurisprudence, to say “OK, I want everyone to load their guns and follow me. We’re going to shoot and kill every black person protesting this rally RIGHT NOW!!” Well, yeah. Also, I thought about including some tangents about how, if the Actual Fucking Nazi says something false and defamatory about you personally, you can sue them. (“And that guy right there, in the third row, in the ‘Down With Nazis’ T-shirt–John Q. Smith, that’s him! That guy, John Q. Smith, is a convicted child molester!” And John Q. Smith is not, in fact, a convicted child molester. And the Actual Fucking Nazi knows perfectly well that John Q. Smith is not, in fact, a convicted child molester.) But I decided the damned post was long enough. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/39 "2017-10-14T21:53:21Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > There is no line. That’s the beauty of it. You can protest _ANYONE_. You can protest the ACLU (and the ACLU will undoubtedly defend your right to do so). > > You cannot “protest” anybody by denying them the right to speak (by blocking access to a venue that person has a right to be speaking at, or by entering the venue and being so disruptive that the speaker simply can’t even speak). Or, if you _do_ choose to protest in those ways, you should be arrested. I suppose that’s the rub. Non-violent resistance sometimes calls for protesting and action that’s outside of the bounds guaranteed under your constitution (and legal right). That’s why when people do it they often expect (and wait) to be arrested for their obstinate action. I’m not sure if the BLM were arrested (the article doesn’t say if they were forcefully removed or left voluntarily). Nonetheless, deplatforming the speaker through the use of “heckler’s veto” is a risk these protesters have chosen to take. I’m sure they feel that their message is important enough to risk arrest. Quite frankly, **that is** their risk to take; who can challenge that personal conviction? (of course we can examine/question it in some theoretical sense) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824/40 "2017-10-14T22:07:00Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > So, someone told you that the school approved the speech when they did not do that. And your solution is to then toss a pot shot to the one asking for your sorry source, but instead of helpfully pointing at the ones that lied to you that it is better to continue to adopt the lie. > > Well, thank you for showing all that you are the joke. Read the article. > **[Opinion | Texas legislator shouted down at Texas Southern University law...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/10/10/texas-legislator-shouted-down-at-texas-southern-university-law-school-speech-called-off-by-university-president-for-lack-of-central-campus-authorization/?utm_term=.574cc8a13f6d)** > > The speech was by Rep. Briscoe Cain, at the Thurgood Marshall School of Law, sponsored by the local Federalist Society chapter, and apparently authorized by the law school (though not cleared by central campus); the university is a public university. So the university and the law school are two distinct entities. I said the law school approved it. Which it did. Unless Washington Post is “fake news.” :rolleyes: "James Douglas, interim dean of the Thurgood Marshall School of Law at TSU, told The Dallas Morning News he’s looking into why Deer Park Rep. Briscoe Cain’s appearance was suddenly canceled after protesters showed up at the event Monday in Houston. Douglas said the law school’s branch of the Federalist Society, a conservative legal organization with chapters across the county, cleared the event with him. “We have a process here in the law school, and they went through our process,” Douglas said of the Federalist Society. “The speaker had a First Amendment right to be heard by the students that invited him….”’ I’m not fiddling with too many quotes on this iPad. I’m certain you have access to Google. So how about you stop being intellectually dishonest? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-over-blm/798824.md?page=3)