# I'm Pretty Sure I Just Saw Penn & Teller Royally Screw Up **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 30, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435 "2014-07-30T18:44:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/1 "2014-07-30T18:44:46Z")
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0mKxNijnOg) Penn & Teller were on _Late Night With Seth Meyers_ Monday night, just watched the episode on DVR. They did a card trick. Penn pulls a deck of cards from his pocket, Teller “shuffles” the cards, then asks Seth to grab a few off the top & give them to Teller. Penn then tells Seth how many cards he grabbed, and what the next card in the deck is. Seth turns it over, and there it is! _You can very obviously see Teller showing Penn the cards at 1:30. All Teller had to do was memorize the sequence, and Seth could have grabbed any number of cards, would have made zero difference._ Not your best work, P&T. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/2 "2014-07-30T19:00:02Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > _You can very obviously see Teller showing Penn the cards at 1:30. All Teller had to do was memorize the sequence, and Seth could have grabbed any number of cards, would have made zero difference._ Sure, if Teller performed a false shuffle, that’s the obvious solution, and it would have been lame if they ended it right there. But it was obviously just a teaser for the rest of what they do with the deck and the rest was pretty cool, especially the ending. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/3 "2014-07-30T19:04:48Z")
I wouldn’t put it past them to have done that on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/4 "2014-07-31T02:50:29Z")
I can easily imagine P & T deliberately wanting to appear to have made a mistake. I don’t see them accidentally making one. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/5 "2014-07-31T04:05:22Z")
If they did screw up I wouldn’t be surprised if Penn talks about it on his podcast. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/6 "2014-07-31T04:22:00Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I can easily imagine P & T deliberately wanting to appear to have made a mistake. I don’t see them accidentally making one. > [@obfusciatrist](#): > > If they did screw up I wouldn’t be surprised if Penn talks about it on his podcast. Did you guys watch the video? There was no screw up despite the title of this thread. Like the OP said, Teller _obviously_ shows Penn what the card on the bottom of the pile he’s holding is and if a false shuffle was performed and Penn memorized the sequence of cards and the viewer figures that out (easy to do), then the trick is not so cool…if that’s all there is. P&T don’t mind if we’re not that impressed up to that point. They are building up to the big finish, which they deliver on. No mistakes are made. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/7 "2014-07-31T04:23:21Z")
And they know full well that pretending to screw up a simple card trick can make the payoff [that much crueler](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO8boL0XiUU). ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/8 "2014-07-31T04:37:18Z")
What are you implying? Penn and Teller _have been deceiving US?_ :shocked: ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/9 "2014-07-31T05:07:39Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Did you guys watch the video? There was no screw up despite the title of this thread. Oh, I don’t think he screwed up. Just saying if he did, I wouldn’t be surprised if he talked quite openly about it on his podcast. He’s done so many times for other things, such as going slightly awry with fire eating. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/10 "2014-07-31T09:51:11Z")
I love P&T, but the whole routine was fairly lame and the payoff not that big (but hey, that’s okay, their mix of simple, not so simple and honestly gobsmaking effects is part of their thing). Is it in error that we see Teller flash a card at Penn? Well, they clearly made no attempt to hide it, so no, I think that was part of their presentation, it serves as a misdirection for the second part. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/11 "2014-07-31T11:41:57Z")
On last night’s _Penn & Teller: Fool Us_, they did a bit where Teller [I assume deliberately] gave a little too much away. Penn ribbed him for it, then talked to the audience about Teller’s “mistake.” Then they pulled off an amazing trick. I think Teller making “mistakes” is slowly becoming part of their act. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/12 "2014-07-31T13:10:16Z")
rE: the same Fool Us episode, one entrant had P&T sit at the table where he dealt them a royal flush from their own deck while blindfolded. The audience got to see the guy dealing from a camera above him. A few times, he seemed to pause like he made a mistake, and he also acted a little nervous. Penn remarked he only knew of one magician who could use the guy’s same dealing technique, because that magician had 14 years of practice while serving time. Without exposing the trick entirely, Penn insinuated the guy was using extraordinary skill in handling the cards. I guess the nervousness and fumbling was all part of the trick. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/13 "2014-07-31T13:21:21Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > What are you implying? Penn and Teller _have been deceiving US?_ > > :shocked: Somebody should kill those guys. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/14 "2014-07-31T13:40:14Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Somebody should kill those guys. Maybe they could be persuaded to shoot each other in the mouth? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/15 "2014-07-31T13:54:47Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Sure, if Teller performed a false shuffle, that’s the obvious solution, and it would have been lame if they ended it right there. But it was obviously just a teaser for the rest of what they do with the deck and the rest was pretty cool, especially the ending. The second part of the trick was the same as the first part of the trick, though. - Teller takes an ordered deck and out does a false shuffle - Teller shows Penn the cut card, Penn announces that it is the 13th card. Teller counts. - Penn accurately “predicts” what the 14th card is - Penn does another false shuffle - Penn presumably sees the cut card somehow (I don’t see this in the video, but he’s holding the stack so it shouldn’t be hard for him to catch a glimpse). After announcing this 2nd cut card, Teller knows what the top card is and conveys the information to the band. - Magic? All of the above is possible if both Penn and Teller have the deck order memorized before and after Penn’s false shuffle. Which is really impressive, if you ask me, but these guys have set a high bar. The showmanship wasn’t up to normal Penn and Teller standards, IMO, and I say this as a big P&T fan. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/16 "2014-07-31T14:15:54Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Penn remarked he only knew of one magician who could use the guy’s same dealing technique, because that magician had 14 years of practice while serving time. Without exposing the trick entirely, Penn insinuated the guy was using extraordinary skill in handling the cards. I guess the nervousness and fumbling was all part of the trick. More than likely, that story is itself misdirection, designed to lead you away from how it was actually done. The hesitations you noticed may well have been misdirection too. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/17 "2014-07-31T15:12:45Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > **After announcing this 2nd cut card** , Teller knows what the top card is and conveys the information to the band. > > - Magic? This never happens, the information conveyed to Teller is that the card is the 31st in the stacked deck (because Penn announces there are 30 cards in the cut part of the stack). You say the second part of the trick is the same as the first, but they are subtly different: in part one the number of cards is known (by Penn) because of the flashed card; In part 2 the card is known (by Teller) because the number of cards is revealed. Question, when you say “Magic?” the answer of course is surely “no”, but then it always is “no”, so what meaning were you trying to convey? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/18 "2014-07-31T15:46:52Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > This never happens, the information conveyed to Teller is that the card is the 31st in the stacked deck (because Penn announces there are 30 cards in the cut part of the stack). > > You say the second part of the trick is the same as the first, but they are subtly different: in part one the number of cards is known (by Penn) because of the flashed card; In part 2 the card is known (by Teller) because the number of cards is revealed. Yes, they are technically (subtly) different, but the trick is still the same – Penn sees the king of spades and knows that it’s the 13th card, and knows that the 14th card is the 3 of diamonds because he has the order memorized. In step 2, he sees the 10 of spades and knows that it’s the 30th card, announces that to Teller, who knows that the 31st card is the 6 of clubs (I don’t remember the exact cards but you get the point). It doesn’t so much matter whether they say “It’s the king of spades” or “It’s the 13th card,” if you have the order memorized then those are equivalent announcements. > [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > Question, when you say “Magic?” the answer of course is surely “no”, but then it always is “no”, so what meaning were you trying to convey? Meaning there’s no glitz or glamour. If they’d come out and said, “We both have this deck order memorized, and we can do this nifty false shuffle and still have the order memorized,” and then proceeded to rattle off the order of the cards while an audience member confirmed that yes, they did indeed have the order memorized… not very interesting, and yet that’s exactly how it felt watching it. Which is more of a David Blaine vibe than a P&T vibe. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/19 "2014-07-31T17:11:40Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > - Penn presumably sees the cut card somehow (I don’t see this in the video, but he’s holding the stack so it shouldn’t be hard for him to catch a glimpse). After announcing this 2nd cut card, Teller knows what the top card is and conveys the information to the band. It could’ve been a marked deck. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435/20 "2014-07-31T19:33:07Z")
> [@Monocracy](#): > > It could’ve been a marked deck. Or a shaved deck. It wasn’t true magic, but I think we can all agree that it was a trick. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-pretty-sure-i-just-saw-penn-teller-royally-screw-up/694435.md?page=2)