# I'm short, fat, old, and ugly. The bouncer at the newest club doesn't admit me. Legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 18, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474 "2012-06-18T01:57:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/1 "2012-06-18T01:57:01Z")
See subject. For the record, I am not s., f., o., and u. Opinions may vary. First Amendment issue? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/2 "2012-06-18T02:04:39Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > First Amendment issue? Private club, their rules. And really - first amendment? Might as well say it’s a Third Amendment issue. I mean, you entering the club is kinda like “quartering”. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/3 "2012-06-18T02:05:50Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > See subject. For the record, I am not s., f., o., and u. Opinions may vary. > > First Amendment issue? No it’s a power, money and aesthetic issue, and his judgement of how likely you are to spend money on bottle service. No one is guaranteed entrance to a club that touts discrimination against people like you as one of its selling features. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/4 "2012-06-18T02:11:05Z")
Until amended, the 1964 Civil Rights Act doesn’t recognize short, fat, old, or ugly as protected classes for admission to places of public accommodation. If you don’t get admitted because of your race or religion, then we can talk… ---
**Author:** ![bleibtreu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bleibtreu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bleibtreu)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/5 "2012-06-18T02:11:09Z")
Legally they can refuse you entry for any of the reasons you list. They can not refuse you entry because of your membership in any “protected class.” For example, they can’t turn you away because of your race or sex, but they can turn you away because of your weight, height, or appearance. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/6 "2012-06-18T02:14:15Z")
> [@bleibtreu](#): > > Legally they can refuse you entry for any of the reasons you list. They can not refuse you entry because of your membership in any “protected class.” For example, they can’t turn you away because of your race or sex, but they can turn you away because of your weight, height, or appearance. …and probably should. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/7 "2012-06-18T02:25:27Z")
First Amendment sounds right, it’s a freedom of association issue. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/8 "2012-06-18T02:28:51Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > First Amendment sounds right, it’s a freedom of association issue. You don’t have freedom to associate with people who don’t want to associate with you. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/9 "2012-06-18T02:35:48Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > First Amendment sounds right, it’s a freedom of association issue. First Amendment doesn’t apply to a private club, which is what the OP seems to suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/10 "2012-06-18T02:39:05Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > First Amendment sounds right, it’s a freedom of association issue. I fail to see how that comes into it. The First Amendment protects the right of people to meet to promote their common interests. That doesn’t give you the right to meet on someone else’s private property. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/11 "2012-06-18T02:53:57Z")
A related issue. How about the ladies night where women drink free? How do they legally get around that? ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/12 "2012-06-18T03:01:39Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Until amended, the 1964 Civil Rights Act doesn’t recognize short, fat, old, or ugly as protected classes for admission to places of public accommodation. If the OP were exceptionally short, awesomely fat, or terrifically ugly would / could there be applicable protections under ADA? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/13 "2012-06-18T03:03:03Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > A related issue. How about the ladies night where women drink free? How do they legally get around that? Sometimes they don’t- [Lady - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladies)’\_night > [@](#): > > A ladies’ night is a promotional event, often at a bar or nightclub, where female patrons pay less than male patrons for the cover charge or drinks. State courts in California, Maryland, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin have ruled that ladies’ night discounts are unlawful gender discrimination under state or local statutes. However, courts in Illinois, Minnesota, and Washington have rejected a variety of challenges to such discounts ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/14 "2012-06-18T03:15:00Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > If the OP were exceptionally short, awesomely fat, or terrifically ugly would / could there be applicable protections under ADA? Interesting. Obviously, it wouldn’t be good for the vibes to have a guy in a wheelchair or a blind man with full dog guide apparatus and dog. ADA regulations have been scammed before (I am covered by ADA, and am familiar with it), but say the wheelchair guy was into watching young girls dance, he could bring charges, right? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/15 "2012-06-18T03:15:03Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > A related issue. How about the ladies night where women drink free? How do they legally get around that? It comes up occasionally. I think the answer is they don’t get around it legally. As the arrangement generally provides social advantages to both genders it’s rare you find a complaining party. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/16 "2012-06-18T03:19:25Z")
What about my First Amendment right not to have to associate with short, fat, old, ugly losers?! ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/17 "2012-06-18T03:23:25Z")
I meant, it’s legal because of freedom of association ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/18 "2012-06-18T03:26:00Z")
What is the difference between a “night club” and a “bar”? AFAIK, these clubs don’t have paying members. The only difference I know of (besides possibly the sound system and dance floor) is someone standing outside and deciding who is worthy of getting in. So, really, any business at all can do this. A corner grocery store could have someone at the door deciding you’re not cool enough to buy your Cap’n Crunch there. How much sense that makes economically is an entirely different question. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/19 "2012-06-18T04:45:21Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > See subject. For the record, I am not s., f., o., and u. Opinions may vary. > > First Amendment issue? The Amendment which says that Congress will not pass laws which infringe on certain freedoms? Unless the bouncers are Congress, and their refusal to admit you is the creation of a new act of law, I’m voting no. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/20 "2012-06-18T05:46:28Z")
Isn’t age discrimination protected? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474.md?page=2)