# I'm short, fat, old, and ugly. The bouncer at the newest club doesn't admit me. Legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 18, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474 "2012-06-18T01:57:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/21 "2012-06-18T05:59:36Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Isn’t age discrimination protected? Yes. if you can prove you were discriminated against based on age from entering the public accommodation you would have a case. Say the club had written rules against admitting people over 40 and you could show that, you have a pretty clear cut case of discrimination. However if they had no such policy and the bouncer simply turned you away saying it’s because you were fat and ugly, your argument it was based on your age is significantly weaker. Being a member of a protected class doesn’t give you special privileges, it prevents people from using your protected class status against you. edited to note I’m not positive age is a protected class in terms of public accommodation. The federal law associated with age may only cover employment, though some states might extend the protection universally. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/22 "2012-06-18T06:31:18Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Yes. if you can prove you were discriminated against based on age from entering the public accommodation you would have a case. > > Say the club had written rules against admitting people over 40 and you could show that, you have a pretty clear cut case of discrimination. However if they had no such policy and the bouncer simply turned you away saying it’s because you were fat and ugly, your argument it was based on your age is significantly weaker. > > Being a member of a protected class doesn’t give you special privileges, it prevents people from using your protected class status against you. > > edited to note I’m not positive age is a protected class in terms of public accommodation. The federal law associated with age may only cover employment, though some states might extend the protection universally. A hip happening nightclub that doesn`t let old farts in? That would be tough to prove… 🙂 But yes, the trick would be to prove that`s the grounds for their discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/23 "2012-06-18T06:35:11Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Isn’t age discrimination protected? Age discrimination is perfectly allowed in the United States, you are free to deem people too young to do plenty of things, what you are not free to do is discriminate against old fogies. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/24 "2012-06-18T12:55:43Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > What about my First Amendment right not to have to associate with short, fat, old, ugly losers?! Ah, that’s what the door is for - you may leave at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/25 "2012-06-18T13:30:22Z")
The thing is these places don’t discriminate aginst the old. If Sean Connery shows up, they’ll let him in. Same for Hugh Hefner or just some random super rich dude who shows up in a Ferrari with a bunch of models hanging off of his arms. It’s really about whether the bouncer thinks your ‘cool’ which could include anything from how well you’re dressed, how handsome you are, how rich you are, how popular you appear to be, etc. Discriminating against the uncool is pretty much what everyone does - it’s going to be pretty tough to outlaw that. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/26 "2012-06-18T13:42:18Z")
Private clubs are permitted to discriminate…even against protected classes. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/27 "2012-06-18T14:13:45Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Private clubs are permitted to discriminate…even against protected classes. Are we thinking of the Augusta Masters course perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/28 "2012-06-18T14:15:14Z")
They’re called “exclusive” clubs for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/29 "2012-06-18T14:20:36Z")
Just do what all the other old, fat, short and uglies do. Drop the doorman a hundy. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/30 "2012-06-18T14:23:58Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Just do what all the other old, fat, short and uglies do. Drop the doorman a hundy. What if you’re also cheap? ---
**Author:** ![Shosy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@Shosy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shosy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/31 "2012-06-18T14:27:59Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Private clubs are permitted to discriminate…even against protected classes. Unless they are, for all intents and purposes, public. The general rule is that they are private if they have an enrolled membership list, and they may then allow guests, etc as long as they are a small minority. If they allow in the general public, but filtered according to their rules (allowing for, suspicion of inability to actually buy anything, known felon, possession of weapons and the like) they then can’t restrict their clientele except for certain narrow purposes (women only, under 17-20 only, over 21 only, etc). Many “private” clubs have certainly been successfully sued for discrimination, because they catered to essentially the general public. Just ask the Elks. Things like the SFU being turned away, ladie’s nights, etc normally persist because few people can be bothered, nor feel motivated enough to sue for the right to be someplace where they aren’t welcome anyway. Placed which carry out such practices mainly do so because they make more money (or at least don’t lose enough to care) to make it worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/32 "2012-06-18T15:37:37Z")
From an old Mad Magazine parody Sung to the tune of Girl from Ipanema > [@](#): > > **Short and fat and old and ugly** > the guy from Jersey City is loaded > and when my girl sees him > she lets out a WOW! > > Strings of pearls and diamond bracelets > and coats of mink is what he gives her > and now I know just why my girl she goes WOW! ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/33 "2012-06-18T15:45:44Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > A related issue. How about the ladies night where women drink free? How do they legally get around that? This isn’t an issue that raises my blood pressure one bit but I’ve wondered that myself. Here is a business that charges one sex more than another. Switch this around and say there is a business that charges women more than men - say a movie theater. Would people get upset? If so, then ladies night should be treated the same. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/34 "2012-06-18T15:56:31Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > See subject. For the record, I am not s., f., o., and u. Opinions may vary. > > First Amendment issue? There are no federal laws against discrimination except due to race, religion, etc. in general (more complicated than that but you get the idea). States have greater protections, but not likely for the fat or ugly. There’s no constitutional right to be admitted to a private club. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/35 "2012-06-18T15:57:32Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > This isn’t an issue that raises my blood pressure one bit but I’ve wondered that myself. Here is a business that charges one sex more than another. > > Switch this around and say there is a business that charges women more than men - say a movie theater. Would people get upset? If so, then ladies night should be treated the same. Yes, I find the casual acceptance of this upsetting. However, it benefits men too - gets more ladies in the door. So don’t complain. In fact, shut up! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/36 "2012-06-18T15:58:43Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Private clubs are permitted to discriminate…even against protected classes. True, but “club” could mean a private club, or just a public nightclub. If the private club takes federal funds, it can’t discriminate btw. ---
**Author:** ![Shosy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@Shosy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shosy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/37 "2012-06-18T16:33:43Z")
I didn’t want to tar myself with this but when I was younger, I worked at a club because I liked putting my paycheck from my regular job in the bank and I appreciated being paid in _cough_ undocumented _cough_ cash for my walking around money (and the undocumented rule of special treatment at each other’s establishments around town). To be honest, while I don’t think I ever turned away an SFU, because they seem to normally have more money (less women to spend it on I suppose), are less likely to get into fights, etc. On the other hand, I turned away a lot of people for ethereal reasons which probably made me look like an \*sshole. I might overheard them talking about something (racist, buying drugs, beating people up) or maybe I just didn’t like the way they looked or when I asked them for ID maybe I thought they had an attitude problem. Maybe it was just getting late and I wanted fewer people to kick out when we close because there was a party to go to. At work we were sued after I fired someone because I “only hire black guys and hispanic women” (they were of Indian descent). ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/38 "2012-06-18T16:34:37Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Yes, I find the casual acceptance of this upsetting. However, it benefits men too - gets more ladies in the door. So don’t complain. In fact, shut up! 😉 Way back when I was in a discussion with a coworker. She insisted that men had it easy and that there were far more available women than men. I said that it wasn’t true. As proof, I said that when I start seeing Men’s Nights at local bars because the bars had too many women compared to men then I would consider it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/39 "2012-06-18T17:56:37Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Yes, I find the casual acceptance of this upsetting. However, it benefits men too - gets more ladies in the door. So don’t complain. …and all of us lesbians get more women AND cheaper drinks. Win-win! ---
**Author:** ![Shosy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@Shosy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shosy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474/40 "2012-06-18T18:06:15Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > …and all of us lesbians get more women AND cheaper drinks. Win-win! Lesbians were always among our favorite customers. They usually had great senses of humor, rarely belted someone unless they really deserved it, and gave me intellectually stimulating conversation during 5 hours of a boring mind numbing job, plus made me look good because I had all these chicks around me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-short-fat-old-and-ugly-the-bouncer-at-the-newest-club-doesnt-admit-me-legal/625474.md?page=3)