# I'm sick of this Global Warming!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 115
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2281 "2014-03-30T10:02:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#):
>
> **FX, Brazil,**
>
> Yes or No:
>
> Has man contributed to the warming of the earth?
Most likely yes. Why do you ask?
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2282 "2014-03-30T10:06:43Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#):
>
> Except the parts that are abnormally warm. Which is most of it.
What is the normal amount of warmth? i.e. when was the last year or range of years in which most of the Earth was NOT abnormally warm?
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2283 "2014-03-30T10:18:03Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#):
>
> Maybe I can clear this up. Note that there is more to the climate system that the atmosphere- there are the oceans, the land and… the ice.
>
> It requires 334 joules of heat to turn a gram of ice into a gram of water. So, in a situation in which global atmospheric temperatures are flat while millions of cubic meters of polar ice are melting, we _are_ witnessing global warming. There is more energy in the system, but it gets absorbed melting all that ice instead of increasing the temperature. Once the ice is gone I expect temperatures to go up (unless all the extra energy goes somewhere else.)
Do you agree that [this chart](http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg) gives a reasonably accurate record of global sea ice from 1979 to the present?
> [@](#):
>
> [Here](http://www.pa.msu.edu/sciencet/ask_st/083194.html) is a quick explanation of how carbon dioxide causes global warming.
This explanation does not mention water vapor feedback. What is your position on water vapor feedback?
---
### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2284 "2014-03-30T12:50:59Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> Not at all. I’ve accurately described your stance on same sex marriage. You are simply a piece of shit bigot that fumbles ineptly to find something that sounds like a logical argument.
So, you don’t even understand my stance, but you accurately described it? :roll eyes:
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> It’s a perfect example of how you’re driven by emotional hate and not reason or intellect.
Even if that were true, how does this apply to this thread on climate change? You really have no clue about how lame you are. But I guess that’s unsurprising.
---
### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2285 "2014-03-30T13:03:47Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> Most likely yes. Why do you ask?
Well, that dolt that goes by the name of Chucklehead, I mean Lobohan, claimed in Post 2251 that you and FX were two posters who believed that man played no role in climate change. That you two should be included in the .02% offered my **Mr. Dibble.**
Chucklehead and others have been trying to erase any nuance from the minority opinion here and make it: either you agree with the likes of he and GIGO, or you are a(cue horror film music) DENIER.
Let’s see now if he is able to admit his error. And then maybe Mr. Dibble can attempt to explain the relevance of his post that led Chucklehead to his latest error.
---
### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2286 "2014-03-30T14:14:06Z")
> [@magellan01](#):
>
> Well, that dolt that goes by the name of Chucklehead, I mean Lobohan, claimed in Post 2251 that you and FX were two posters who believed that man played no role in climate change. That you two should be included in the .02% offered my **Mr. Dibble.**
>
> Chucklehead and others have been trying to erase any nuance from the minority opinion here and make it: either you agree with the likes of he and GIGO, or you are a(cue horror film music) DENIER.
>
> Let’s see now if he is able to admit his error. And then maybe Mr. Dibble can attempt to explain the relevance of his post that led Chucklehead to his latest error.
He also threw in the fillip about how _“they don’t answer when asked directly”_, which (a) isn’t true here, but (b) is often true of folks who predict dire consequences in general but don’t offer specifics when pressed. That’s some mighty fine projection.
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2287 "2014-03-30T15:11:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#):
>
> Well, that dolt that goes by the name of Chucklehead, I mean Lobohan, claimed in Post 2251 that you and FX were two posters who believed that man played no role in climate change. That you two should be included in the .02% offered my **Mr. Dibble.**
I wasn’t aware of that since I generally do not read **Lobohan** ’s posts anymore. But I’m not surprised to find out he is a liar and an idiot to boot.
> [@](#):
>
> Chucklehead and others have been trying to erase any nuance from the minority opinion here and make it: either you agree with the likes of he and GIGO, or you are a(cue horror film music) DENIER.
Well what exactly would one agree or disagree with? Has either of them ever concisely spelled out his position? I doubt it. It’s pretty much impossible to get **GIGOBuster** to answer a simple, reasonable, yes or no question about his position. Probably the same is true about **Lobohan**.
---
### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2288 "2014-03-30T16:31:41Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> He also threw in the fillip about how _“they don’t answer when asked directly”_, which (a) isn’t true here, but (b) is often true of folks who predict dire consequences in general but don’t offer specifics when pressed. That’s some mighty fine projection.
So true. And add to that list **John\_Stamos’\_Left\_Ear**. One question to him asking him to clarify a claim he made turned him into the invisible man, never to be seen again. Chucklehead really has nothing to offer other than snark and commentary from the peanut gallery, so I don’t expect anything from him other than that, and lies.
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### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2289 "2014-03-30T16:47:41Z")
> [@magellan01](#):
>
> So true. And add to that list **John\_Stamos’\_Left\_Ear**. One question to him asking him to clarify a claim he made turned him into the invisible man, never to be seen again.
**Fear Itself** is a bit like that too:
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> > [@Fear Itself](#):
> >
> > Where did you get that idea? There are lots of empirical data that would disprove global warming;
>
> Please give me three specific examples.
>
> Also, please let me know what you mean by “global warming” – is it simply the claim that global surface temperatures have been increasing? Or something more?
[crickets chirping]
---
### Author:  [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2290 "2014-03-30T16:50:09Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> To follow up, you believe humanity is contributing to the warming of the planet, do you think that will be a good think or a bad thing?
Like so many things involving human beings, it’s going to be both. For the natural world, the mythical place with no human beings, it’s still going to be both. As some species and plants will benefit, while others will suffer.
But this is true of natural events as well, so a value judgement on such issues is impossible, from a global perspective.
---
### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2291 "2014-03-30T17:16:13Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#):
>
> Like so many things involving human beings, it’s going to be both. For the natural world, the mythical place with no human beings, it’s still going to be both. As some species and plants will benefit, while others will suffer.
>
> But this is true of natural events as well, so a value judgement on such issues is impossible, from a global perspective.
Of course some benefits will accrue. Toronto will be more livable, for one.
But because of sea level rise and increased fresh water consumption, I don’t see a uniformly rosy picture.
---
### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2292 "2014-03-30T17:38:48Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> He also threw in the fillip about how _“they don’t answer when asked directly”_, which (a) isn’t true here, but (b) is often true of folks who predict dire consequences in general but don’t offer specifics when pressed. That’s some mighty fine projection.
Waldo, I think you have a flawed view of the situation.
As far as I can tell, FX and Brazil haven’t answered that question until now. If they did, I missed it, and I’ll certainly agree that FX has made a stand. I still have no idea what Brazil thinks, because he’s so invested in being a Socratic-cock hole that he isn’t likely to clearly state it.
The trouble is that FX is such a profoundly bad communicator, because of his interleaving snark, sarcasm and rabid mania, that it’s difficult to get a read on his position.
Now mind you, FX is still a nutjob. But it’s at least nice to know his position amid the chaos he spews.
As for your weird accusation of projection, my greatest fear about climate change is rising sea levels. Land based ice melting is accelerating, and in my mind could cause huge amounts of human misery. Displaced populations will have to be absorbed, and that sort of thing leads to conflict.
I’m sure I’ve said similar before, and all anyone would have to do is ask me. In fact, Brazil attempted a gotcha about, “What does global warming mean?” and I answered him.
> [@lobohan](#):
>
> It’s my understanding that most people mean “global warming” as the increase of the Earth’s temperature over what it would be, due to the amount of carbon we’re putting into the air.
>
> This is a complex issue, of course, because the Earth’s temperature varies naturally for a bunch of reasons.
>
> But you knew that, didn’t you?
---
### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2293 "2014-03-30T17:45:54Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> I wasn’t aware of that since I generally do not read **Lobohan** ’s posts anymore. But I’m not surprised to find out he is a liar and an idiot to boot.
I only lie to spare people’s feelings. I’m an open book. Ask what you’d like.
> [@](#):
>
> Well what exactly would one agree or disagree with? Has either of them ever concisely spelled out his position? I doubt it. It’s pretty much impossible to get **GIGOBuster** to answer a simple, reasonable, yes or no question about his position. Probably the same is true about **Lobohan**.
I’ve answered you directly. The link is here:
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17031702&postcount=1505](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17031702&postcount=1505)
And I did see that you agree that the world is most likely warming due to human action. Good, nice to know that you do.
A further question: Do you think that the warming is likely to cause significant sea-level rising?
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### Author:  [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2294 "2014-03-30T17:54:01Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> Of course some benefits will accrue. Toronto will be more livable, for one.
Not if [the current trend continues](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2014&month_last=2&sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1998&year2=2014&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=pol). Brutal long winters do not make a place more “livable”, for whatever that even means. The February trend shows clearly that the latest winter isn’t an anomaly, but part of a trend. (you can also see the few little grid cells nearby that show warming. How does that even happen?)
---
### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2295 "2014-03-30T18:19:12Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> Waldo, I think you have a flawed view of the situation.
>
> As far as I can tell, FX and Brazil haven’t answered that question until now. If they did, I missed it, and I’ll certainly agree that FX has made a stand. I still have no idea what Brazil thinks, because he’s so invested in being a Socratic-cock hole that he isn’t likely to clearly state it.
Shortly before this post of yours – just upthread, here on the same page – he replied, when asked, _“Most likely yes. Why do you ask?”_ Since you still have no idea what he thinks, it’s hardly a shock that FX’s position escaped your notice before now.
> [@](#):
>
> As for your weird accusation of projection,
I’ve seen plenty of folks predict climatic doom-n-gloom in general but back away from making specific-to-the-point-of-falsifiable predictions in particular when asked. To see two individuals (a) get called out for that sort of behavior, but (b) promptly illustrate that, _no, you’re naming the wrong people; you want the ones on the other side_ puts that in sharp relief.
> [@](#):
>
> my greatest fear about climate change is rising sea levels. Land based ice melting is accelerating, and in my mind could cause huge amounts of human misery. Displaced populations will have to be absorbed, and that sort of thing leads to conflict.
>
> I’m sure I’ve said similar before, and all anyone would have to do is ask me. In fact, Brazil attempted a gotcha about, “What does global warming mean?” and I answered him.
Indeed, you may well be One Of The Good Ones; pray tell me: if you’re correct, then what amount of sea-level rise do you predict by when? _“We’ll see at least X in the next Y years”_ would be perfectly satisfactory.
---
### Author:  [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2296 "2014-03-31T00:55:49Z")
> **[Climate impacts 'overwhelming' - UN](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26810559)**
>
> Global warming is likely to have a "severe, pervasive and irreversible" impact, a major UN report warns.
---
### Author:  [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2297 "2014-03-31T01:00:07Z")
FX has already put together his [response](http://cheezburger.com/3492391936), based on “Science!”
---
### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2298 "2014-03-31T02:51:35Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#):
>
> [Climate impacts 'overwhelming' - UN - BBC News](http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26810559)
Oh, good heavens, that’s adorable.
We’re told that _risks are said to increase to “very high” with a 2C rise in temperatures._ We’re told that crop yields are imperiled, with _around a tenth of projections showing losses over 25%._ We’re told that, in _some parts of the tropics and in Antarctica, potential catches could decline by more than 50%._ Oh, and also: _There are concerns raised over migration linked to climate change, as well as conflict and national security._
What, hypothetically, could prove that false?
I have no idea.
If, in decades yet to come, the catches in some parts of the tropics decline by less than 50% – perhaps less than 10%, perhaps not at all – then can we say the predictions were dead wrong? If the crop yields are down by 5%, or up by 15%, then what? What’s been ruled out?
Even if the risks never actually materialize, the I-Told-You-So brigade can of course still say The-Risks-Were-Very-High; what could ever prove them wrong? _After 2050, the risk of more severe yield impacts increases,_ they say, because of course they do, because we could never look back and say You-Got-That-Wrong.
_There are concerns raised over migration linked to climate change, as well as conflict and national security._ Could that claim even hypothetically be incorrect?
(But give 'em credit for this gem: _People will be affected by flooding and heat related mortality._ I tell ya: if three people are affected by flooding, and two drop from heat-related mortality, then AFAICT the article’s predictions are on solid ground.)
---
### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2014, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2299 "2014-03-31T10:19:40Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> Shortly before this post of yours – just upthread, here on the same page – he replied, when asked, _“Most likely yes. Why do you ask?”_ Since you still have no idea what he thinks, it’s hardly a shock that FX’s position escaped your notice before now.
You’ll note that I addressed it after I read his post. Maybe you should take a bit of your own medicine, dipshit.
> [@](#):
>
> I’ve seen plenty of folks predict climatic doom-n-gloom in general but back away from making specific-to-the-point-of-falsifiable predictions in particular when asked. To see two individuals (a) get called out for that sort of behavior, but (b) promptly illustrate that, _no, you’re naming the wrong people; you want the ones on the other side_ puts that in sharp relief.
If you’ve seen FX and Brazil post, they often throw out gibberish. If they’ve said specifically before this that they believed the Earth was warming as a result of man, it wasn’t clearly and often, I assure you.
> [@](#):
>
> Indeed, you may well be One Of The Good Ones; pray tell me: if you’re correct, then what amount of sea-level rise do you predict by when? _“We’ll see at least X in the next Y years”_ would be perfectly satisfactory.
You’re an imbecile. I’m not a climate scientist. My predictions don’t mean anything. Just like your chuckle-fuck denials don’t mean anything. You, and I are alike in that we don’t understand the issue enough to make reasonable proclamations.
I trust the scientific community and accept the consensus of experts. You appear to be Dunning-Krugering yourself.
---
### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2014, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2300 "2014-03-31T11:51:26Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> You’ll note that I addressed it after I read his post. Maybe you should take a bit of your own medicine, dipshit.
You admitted it about FX _while still castigating Brazil._ That you were still getting the latter wrong may well explain why it took you so long to get the former right.
> [@](#):
>
> If you’ve seen FX and Brazil post, they often throw out gibberish. If they’ve said specifically before this that they believed the Earth was warming as a result of man, it wasn’t clearly and often, I assure you.
They did just fine shortly before the post where you got one right and one wrong. Since you proved incapable of reading Brazil’s clear post here and now, I can’t say I have much confidence that you’ve read either of 'em well before.
> [@](#):
>
> You’re an imbecile. I’m not a climate scientist. My predictions don’t mean anything. Just like your chuckle-fuck denials don’t mean anything. You, and I are alike in that we don’t understand the issue enough to make reasonable proclamations.
Wow, that’s great follow-up to _“I’m sure I’ve said similar before, and all anyone would have to do is ask me.”_
Look, I appreciate that – as you say – your predictions don’t mean anything, and you don’t understand the issue enough to make reasonable proclamations. If you feel that way, that’s fine; I’d be equally happy if you relay the predictions and proclamations of someone you trust. Go right ahead. Whenever you’re ready.
> [@](#):
>
> I trust the scientific community and accept the consensus of experts. You appear to be Dunning-Krugering yourself.
You (a) don’t understand enough to make reasonable proclamations about the issue at hand, but (b) do feel confident enough to expound on Dunning-Kruger? Hmm.
Well, since you’ve already been wrong about FX and Brazil, it’d be no surprise if you’re wrong about me as well: for all you know, I requested the specifics of your favorite predictions – whether made by you, or made by experts and relayed by you – to accept them as you have. We’ll never know unless you produce them. Can you?
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