# I'm sick of this Global Warming!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 120
### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2381 "2014-04-17T20:08:26Z")
Congrats FX! 900 posts in one thread. That’s a remarkable achievement. Bear down, bring another bag of Cheetos down to the basement, and pound out another 100 content less posts. I want to see the full one grand performance!
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### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2382 "2014-04-17T20:32:51Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#):
>
> Not going to happen.
I agree it’s pretty unlikely. The global warming scam depends on vagueness and ambiguity. With a clear definition, it would become impossible to simultaneously claim that (1) the evidence supports it; (2) scientists agree on it; and (3) if nothing is done, terrible things are likely to happen.
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2383 "2014-04-17T20:45:02Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> I agree it’s pretty unlikely. The global warming scam depends on vagueness and ambiguity. With a clear definition, it would become impossible to simultaneously claim that (1) the evidence supports it; (2) scientists agree on it; and (3) if nothing is done, terrible things are likely to happen.
Do you agree that the world is hotter than it would be because of human action? I asked you that upthread and you seemed to answer yes.
What are you looking for exactly?
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2384 "2014-04-17T21:31:08Z")
[South Florida Winter 2013-2014 One of the Warmest on Record](http://www.srh.noaa.gov/images/mfl/news/Feb2014WinterSummary.pdf)
> [@](#):
>
> For the third straight winter, warmer than normal temperatures were observed across south Florida. This was in sharp contrast to most of the eastern and central United States which had one of the coldest winters in recent memory. During the meteorologically-defined winter season of December 2013 through February 2014, average temperatures across south Florida were anywhere from two to as much as four degrees above normal and ranked among the warmest winters on record at the four main climate sites.
Admit it. You are just fabricating your evidence out of thin air. Every link you post demonstrates the exact opposite of what you claim. Transparent, deliberate lies. It is so obvious, why do you persist in making yourself look like a hysterical fool?
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### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2385 "2014-04-18T05:33:32Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> So what exactly is your definition of “global warming”?
>
> Please just quote the part of that page which provides the definition. Either that or provide a definition in your own words.
The definition is found in the first page I shared.
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### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2386 "2014-04-18T05:34:35Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#):
>
> Not going to happen. There is no definition on the page, much less an explanation of the theory, or how we can know if the climate change is due to human factors.
>
> Why this basic information is so hard to find (and it certainly is) remains a great mystery. It’s why GIGO abandoned the thread, and why so many claims about global warming sound like religious woo woo beliefs.
>
> Like the latest nonsense, where global warming can cause winters to be mild and warm, with little snow and ice, or record cold, with record amounts of ice and snow.
The definition is found in the first page linked. The effects are enumerated in the second page.
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### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2387 "2014-04-18T05:35:36Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#):
>
> What a pathetic attempt to preach down to people.
>
> [http://guymcpherson.com/2013/01/climate-change-summary-and-update/](http://guymcpherson.com/2013/01/climate-change-summary-and-update/)
Check the links to various studies given in the list.
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### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2388 "2014-04-18T05:36:55Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#):
>
> Trolling. If it was there, you would quote it.
>
> Go troll somewhere else.
Second sentence of the first paragraph:
“and the preponderance of evidence says it’s humans”
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### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2389 "2014-04-18T05:38:00Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> I agree it’s pretty unlikely. The global warming scam depends on vagueness and ambiguity. With a clear definition, it would become impossible to simultaneously claim that (1) the evidence supports it; (2) scientists agree on it; and (3) if nothing is done, terrible things are likely to happen.
The catch is that vagueness works both ways.
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### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2390 "2014-04-18T07:06:59Z")
> [@ralfy](#):
>
> The definition is found in the first page I shared.
Please quote it. Just use the cut and paste function on your computer. If you are telling the truth, it should take you about 20 seconds to do so.
> [@](#):
>
> The catch is that vagueness works both ways.
What specifically is vague about my position?
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### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2391 "2014-04-18T07:09:22Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#):
>
> Transparent, deliberate lies.
> [@Fear Itself](#):
>
> There are lots of empirical data that would disprove global warming;
Please provide 3 examples.
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### Author:  [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2392 "2014-04-18T10:25:48Z")
> [@ralfy](#):
>
> Multiple positive feedbacks are enumerated here:
>
> [http://guymcpherson.com/2013/01/climate-change-summary-and-update/](http://guymcpherson.com/2013/01/climate-change-summary-and-update/)
This is my favorite part:
> [@](#):
>
> Some green-washing solutionistas take refuge in the nuclear solution. It’s astonishing what one can conclude when grid-tied electricity is a viewed as a natural right. James Hansen’s endorsement notwithstanding, nuclear power plants cause, rather than prevent, additional warming of Earth.
Booyah!
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### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2393 "2014-04-18T14:13:30Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> Please quote it. Just use the cut and paste function on your computer. If you are telling the truth, it should take you about 20 seconds to do so.
Scroll up and you will see the quote in my previous post. The line is from the second sentence of the first paragraph.
> [@](#):
>
> What specifically is vague about my position?
I am not referring to your position but to the point that the argument of vagueness works both ways. It implies that global warming is a “scam” or it isn’t.
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### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2394 "2014-04-18T15:47:15Z")
> [@ralfy](#):
>
> Scroll up and you will see the quote in my previous post. The line is from the second sentence of the first paragraph.
Hmmm . . .
> [@](#):
>
> “and the preponderance of evidence says it’s humans”
That’s a statement not a definition but anyway, are you saying that “global warming” means any increase in global surface temperatures caused by humans, regardless of the mechanism and regardless of the amount of the increase?
> [@](#):
>
> I am not referring to your position but to the point that the argument of vagueness works both ways. It implies that global warming is a “scam” or it isn’t.
I have no idea what this means. My position is that warmers have a tendency to leave the definition of global warming vague and ambiguous so as to conceal contradictions in their position. Since you say that “vagueness works both ways,” I take that to mean you are saying that people on the other side of the debate are keeping some aspect of their position vague and ambiguous. Is that what you are saying?
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### Author:  [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2395 "2014-04-18T16:00:19Z")
Now we have reached that wondrous point in the thread where the OP makes perfect sense.
You know in your heart it is true.
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### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2396 "2014-04-18T17:12:31Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> Hmmm . . .
>
> That’s a statement not a definition but anyway, are you saying that “global warming” means any increase in global surface temperatures caused by humans, regardless of the mechanism and regardless of the amount of the increase?
The whole page is a definition of global warming, and that includes the line taken from the same page.
To answer your question, please read the same page.
> [@](#):
>
> I have no idea what this means. My position is that warmers have a tendency to leave the definition of global warming vague and ambiguous so as to conceal contradictions in their position. Since you say that “vagueness works both ways,” I take that to mean you are saying that people on the other side of the debate are keeping some aspect of their position vague and ambiguous. Is that what you are saying?
I don’t think “warmers” are trying to be vague. Rather, the issue is so complex no definitive conclusion can be made. Unfortunately, the same problem applies to those who oppose “warmers.” In short, no definitive conclusion can be made by both sides.
Unfortunately, we also face environmental damage and peak oil, and since multiple positive feedbacks have been observed (see the second link), then it becomes irrelevant to question global warming.
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### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2397 "2014-04-18T17:14:28Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#):
>
> Now we have reached that wondrous point in the thread where the OP makes perfect sense.
>
> You know in your heart it is true.
“The difference between weather and climate”
> **[The difference between weather and climate](https://skepticalscience.com/weather-forecasts-vs-climate-models-predictions.htm)**
>
> \Weather is chaotic, making prediction difficult. However, climate takes a long term view, averaging weather out over time. This removes the chaotic element, enabling climate models to successfully predict future climate change.\
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### Author:  [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2398 "2014-04-18T17:25:11Z")
Unless you simply are ignoring pretty much everything, you know by now that the record cold is being blamed on global warming.
The problem with this line of handwaving is that record warm winters are also being blamed on global warming. It doesn’t mean it isn’t true, after all it **could** be possible, it **may** be the reason, and we **might** be seeing asymmetric climate change, driven by increasing CO2 levels. Notice how my statement is impossible to disprove.
This is the essence of what brazil84 keeps bringing up. The common view of “global warming” is so unscientific it’s impossible to know if it’s true or not. Anything can be blamed on global warming, even record cold and snow, which means you can complain about record cold days (like in the OP), and according to the common belief that global warming caused the cold, nobody can scientifically show you are wrong in any way.
Because according to the idiot opinion, “global warming is happening, we know this, so any bad weather **might** be due to global warming, even cold weather”, which is about as ignorant a view of things as it is possible to have.
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### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2399 "2014-04-18T18:06:46Z")
> [@ralfy](#):
>
> The whole page is a definition of global warming, and that includes the line taken from the same page.
It contains statements about global warming but no explicit definition.
> [@](#):
>
> To answer your question, please read the same page.
Sorry, but it’s not my responsibility to sift through the page looking for a simple answer to a simple, reasonable yes or no question I asked you. And this is the last time I will ask:
Are you saying that “global warming” means any increase in global surface temperatures caused by humans, regardless of the mechanism and regardless of the amount of the increase?
> [@](#):
>
> I don’t think “warmers” are trying to be vague.
Then why is it so difficult to provide a simple, explicit answer to my question? Please complete the sentence:
“Global warming” is the claim that \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.
> [@](#):
>
> Rather, the issue is so complex no definitive conclusion can be made. Unfortunately, the same problem applies to those who oppose “warmers.” In short, no definitive conclusion can be made by both sides.
So you are not saying that those who oppose warmers are keeping some issue vague or ambiguous?
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### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2400 "2014-04-19T02:51:32Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#):
>
> Unless you simply are ignoring pretty much everything, you know by now that the record cold is being blamed on global warming.
Nothing in the article about Atlanta refers to global warming.
> [@](#):
>
> The problem with this line of handwaving is that record warm winters are also being blamed on global warming. It doesn’t mean it isn’t true, after all it **could** be possible, it **may** be the reason, and we **might** be seeing asymmetric climate change, driven by increasing CO2 levels. Notice how my statement is impossible to disprove.
Global warming may lead to extreme cold and hot seasons. More details can be found in the NAS final report on climate change and other sources, like
“It’s Cold and My Car is Buried in Snow. Is Global Warming Really Happening?”
> **[Does Cold Weather Disprove Climate Change?](https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/does-cold-weather-disprove-climate-change)**
>
> It most certainly does not—but it does change the intensity of the heaviest storms.
> [@](#):
>
> This is the essence of what brazil84 keeps bringing up. The common view of “global warming” is so unscientific it’s impossible to know if it’s true or not. Anything can be blamed on global warming, even record cold and snow, which means you can complain about record cold days (like in the OP), and according to the common belief that global warming caused the cold, nobody can scientifically show you are wrong in any way.
The common view should not be confused with peer-reviewed scientific studies.
> [@](#):
>
> Because according to the idiot opinion, “global warming is happening, we know this, so any bad weather **might** be due to global warming, even cold weather”, which is about as ignorant a view of things as it is possible to have.
FWIW, various organizations have argued that there are connections:
> **[Scientific consensus on climate change](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change)**
>
> There is a nearly unanimous scientific consensus that the Earth has been consistently warming since the start of the Industrial Revolution, that the rate of recent warming is largely unprecedented,: 8 : 11 and that this warming is mainly the result of a rapid increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) caused by human activities. The human activities causing this warming include fossil fuel combustion, cement production, and land use changes such as deforestation,: 10–11 with a signif Nearly...
while others study the matter further:
> **[Royal Society and U.S. National Academy of Sciences release joint publication...](https://royalsociety.org/news/2014/climate-change-evidence-causes/)**
>
> The Royal Society and the U.S. National Academy of Sciences released a joint publication today that explains the clear evidence that humans are causing the climate to change, and that addresses a variety of other key questions commonly asked about...
but the issue may involve more than just extreme weather, as seen in multiple positive feedbacks studied. These are enumerated in a previous link I shared earlier.
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