# I'm sick of this Global Warming!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 122
### Author:  [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2421 "2014-04-23T01:21:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#):
>
> This is the question that cause John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear to run away. (Post #2133.) How someone can be sure of their position without being able to answer that is quite astounding.
Nobody has run away, dumbass. People simply conclude that you and your nitwit brethren are crackpots, and not worth engaging in rational discourse. Most people here care about what climatologists think about climate, not how some douchebag in an armchair views things from the dim end of the Dunning-Kruger curve. Most people here are _laughing_ at you. Sad, but true.
As you were, soldier.
---
### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2422 "2014-04-23T02:21:40Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#):
>
> Nobody has run away, dumbass. People simply conclude that you and your nitwit brethren are crackpots, and not worth engaging in rational discourse. Most people here care about what climatologists think about climate, not how some douchebag in an armchair views things from the dim end of the Dunning-Kruger curve. Most people here are _laughing_ at you. Sad, but true.
>
> As you were, soldier.
Tsk, tsk, tsk. Clearly you have zero idea what you’re talking about. Please do refer to the post in question. And if you feel like you’d like to help _your_ brethren, feel free to answer the question posed. With a sensible cite, of course. Also, feel free to contact He\_Who\_Was\_Smart\_Enough\_To\_Run\_Away and see if you can get him to come back and substantiate his claims by answering what was asked of him. Lest one think that the two of you are full of shit. I await your valuable contribution to SAVING THE WORLD!!!
:rolleyes:
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2014, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2423 "2014-04-23T08:46:21Z")
> [@magellan01](#):
>
> Tsk, tsk, tsk. Clearly you have zero idea what you’re talking about.
Well yeah, but much of the time the final fallback position of the internet warmist is the “You’re Not a Climatologist” argument. Bonus points if they throw in an unintendedly ironic reference to Dunning-Kruger.
> [@](#):
>
> And if you feel like you’d like to help _your_ brethren, feel free to answer the question posed.
Of course he won’t. He has essentially no understanding of the actual issues involved, for him it’s all about the feelz.
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2424 "2014-04-23T13:00:15Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#):
>
> Most people here care about what climatologists think about climate,
That argument might carry some weight if you were able to lay out what exactly climatologists do and do not think on these issues. In precise terms and without weasel words. And demonstrate that climatologists actually subscribe to such a position.
For example, is there agreement among climate scientists about water vapor feedback? If so, what exactly is it?
---
### Author:  [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2425 "2014-04-23T19:54:42Z")
My favorite fallback position when confronting a Dunning-Kruger test subject on SDMB is to consult my own expertise as a logician, conclude the person with whom I’m “discoursing” is full of shit and then say something snarky before wandering off to a more interesting thread.
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2426 "2014-04-23T23:25:56Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#):
>
> My favorite fallback position when confronting a Dunning-Kruger test subject on SDMB is to consult my own expertise
Lol at the additional unintended irony. As I said, you have essentially no understanding of the actual issues involved, for you it’s just about feelz.
---
### Author:  [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2427 "2014-04-24T00:39:21Z")
Rather than engage with trolls and idiots, I find the science to be quite interesting, and having actually lived long enough to watch the last 50 years of climate science, there are some things that can be discussed, which would have been speculation and assumption twenty or thirty years ago. What’s surprising is the level of ignorance from the people that consider themselves smarter than anyone else … wait. I think that is the definition of the DK effect. To be stupid, and consider yourself smarter than everyone else. Fascinating.
SCIENCE BITCHES!
> [@](#):
>
> **Why are winters warming up so much faster over Northern Hemisphere continents than over the rest of the globe?** A new study by NASA researchers in the June 3 issue of the journal Nature is the first to link the well-documented large degree of North America and Eurasia winter warming and the associated wind changes to rising greenhouse gas levels in the atmosphere.
>
> Drew Shindell, an atmospheric scientist from NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies and Columbia University, NY, found that the large warming that has occurred during Northern Hemisphere winters over the last 30 years — up to nine degrees Fahrenheit, a full 10 times warmer than the global average 0.9 degree Fahrenheit warming — is likely a result of human activities that increase greenhouse gases. **Warmer winters will bring more wet weather to Europe and Western North America** , Shindell said, with Western Europe the worst hit by storms coming off the Atlantic.
>
> Using a computer climate model to try and understand where the warming over the past three decades is coming from, Shindell and colleagues discovered that in the model,\*\* increasing greenhouse gases cause stronger spiraling winds over the North Pole\*\*, a phenomenon called **the polar vortex** , that change the normal Northern Hemisphere climate. “Northern Hemisphere winters have been warming up for the past 30 years,” Shindell said. “It’s a big concern to know why this happens.”
[NASA GISS: NASA News & Feature Releases: Warmer and Wetter Winters in Europe and Western North America Linked to Increasing Greenhouse Gases](http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/19990602/)
Just as I have pointed out multiple times, and supported with multiple peer reviewed papers, the models, as well as the theoretical warming from the enhanced greenhouse effect (AGW), depends upon a feedback from warming NH winters. It’s a key prediction of AGW. And of course, it’s measurable. Here’s[the thirty year trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1970&year2=2000&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob) and [the twenty year trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1980&year2=1999&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob), both of which are being discussed back in 98 and 2000, the subject of the two GISS links in this post. Note in the Zonal mean graph the hump that represents the high latitudes warming trend. and note that the warming is considered a result of increased winds, due to greenhouse gases, which is assumed to cause a STRONG POLAR VORTEX, which keeps all the cold bottled up in the polar regions, causing warm wet winters in the US and Europe. And Asia.
> [@](#):
>
> **Greenhouse gases are the main reason why the northern hemisphere is warming quicker during winter-time months than the rest of the world** , according to new computer climate model results by NASA scientists.
>
> Climatologists consider volcanic aerosols, polar ozone depletion, solar radiation, and greenhouse gases to be important factors in climate warming. NASA scientists input all of these factors in a climate model and concluded that **greenhouse gases are the primary factor driving warmer winter climates in North America, Europe and Asia over the last 30 years**. They found that **greenhouse gases, more than any of the other factors, increase the strength of the polar winds that regulate northern hemisphere climate in winter**.
[NASA GISS: NASA News & Feature Releases: Greenhouse Gases Main Reason for Quicker Northern Winter Warming](http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20010423/)
I bolded the good parts, not that it will matter to the true believer, the bolding is for the science based people.
The 1990 IPCC report goes on at length about this as well, but strangely enough, there isn’t a single html version of it online. Anywhere. Yet.
But there is zero doubt that warming NH winters is a key prediction of increasing greenhouse gases. That the twenty year trend 1995-2014 is so different than the predictions, it’s the sort of thing that drives a true believer into a blank stare, some sort of mental freeze up, or worse.
Here’s those winter trends that I’ve posted a dozen times now.
[last twenty years winter trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1996&year2=2014&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob)
Check out the zonal mean and compare with the warming [twenty year trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1980&year2=1999&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob).
It’s so obvious, even a true believer can see it.
[The trend since 2002](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=2002&year2=2014&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob) is much more extreme, and mostly to illustrate what a colder NH winter trend looks like, it’s a short period. Somehow 17 years became the length of time needed, which is interesting, since [the 17 year trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1997&year2=2014&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob) is also really obvious as well.
It’s become such a problem in the war of perception, that now we see more and more “experts” and stories about how “global warming” is “causing” the colder winters, at the same time some people are still trying to say there is no trend towards colder NH winters. It’s a most interesting time to be alive.
No really it is. At the same time, right now. there are a half dozen different stories being fed in various ways by various groups and believers, trying to spin things, attempts to influence what people “believe” about climate change.
None of which changes anything, except for the people busy altering the data of course. They actually matter, but not in a good way.
The problem with presenting links to GISS pages, is that it is impossible to actually refute it with the usual “that’s not what the experts say”, since the linked pages are actually from the experts. Both the data as well as the explanations of how warming is causing the stronger polar vortex which leads to warmer winters. (there’s more on this at the first two links)
Ain’t that a hoot?
---
### Author:  [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2428 "2014-04-24T00:42:01Z")
tl;dr
I linked to GISS experts discussing how greenhouse gases are the likely cause of the warming NH winters, due to a stronger polar vortex, from a warming world. And to GISS maps showing the trends then, and now.
---
### Author:  [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2429 "2014-04-24T00:52:47Z")
I leave it up to the reader to understand why predictions and calculations made during the 80s and 90s (and to this day) about how and why greenhouse gases would lead to drastic warming, which would be most obvious in the NH boreal winters.
Such a warming was observed from 1970-2000 and was considered prime evidence that greenhouse gases were driving the warming. Warming was considered the cause of a stronger polar vortex, which kept the arctic air in winter bottled up, making the US, Europe and Asia warmer in winter.
The essential points of the GISS data and models was that a positive feedback from warming would lead to even more warming, which would be most evident in winter. More rain and less snow. Milder winters, leading to even more warming of high latitudes. Many warnings were published, ranging from damage to winter wheat, invasive species moving north, polar bears going extinct, permafrost loss and methane release, and on and on. hand wringing and demands to do something now were common. Still are actually.
Meanwhile, in the real world, winters got colder, with much more snow.
Of course not a single person who spent the last twenty years predicting warmer winters, with less snow, has ever come out and said anything close to “we were wrong about this”. Oh no. And they never will.
Instead we already hear “global warming is causing the colder winters”. Which is exactly why I started off complaining about global warming. because of a record cold day in August.
If global warming can make it colder, then of course colder August temperatures can also be blamed on global warming.
Global warming, I’m so sick of it.
---
### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2430 "2014-04-24T02:53:48Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#):
>
> Rather than engage with trolls and idiots, I find the science to be quite interesting, and having actually lived long enough to watch the last 50 years of climate science, there are some things that can be discussed, which would have been speculation and assumption twenty or thirty years ago. What’s surprising is the level of ignorance from the people that consider themselves smarter than anyone else … wait. I think that is the definition of the DK effect. To be stupid, and consider yourself smarter than everyone else. Fascinating.
>
> SCIENCE BITCHES! [NASA GISS: NASA News & Feature Releases: Warmer and Wetter Winters in Europe and Western North America Linked to Increasing Greenhouse Gases](http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/19990602/)
>
> Just as I have pointed out multiple times, and supported with multiple peer reviewed papers, the models, as well as the theoretical warming from the enhanced greenhouse effect (AGW), depends upon a feedback from warming NH winters. It’s a key prediction of AGW. And of course, it’s measurable. Here’s[the thirty year trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1970&year2=2000&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob) and [the twenty year trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1980&year2=1999&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob), both of which are being discussed back in 98 and 2000, the subject of the two GISS links in this post. Note in the Zonal mean graph the hump that represents the high latitudes warming trend. and note that the warming is considered a result of increased winds, due to greenhouse gases, which is assumed to cause a STRONG POLAR VORTEX, which keeps all the cold bottled up in the polar regions, causing warm wet winters in the US and Europe. And Asia.
>
> [NASA GISS: NASA News & Feature Releases: Greenhouse Gases Main Reason for Quicker Northern Winter Warming](http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20010423/)
>
> I bolded the good parts, not that it will matter to the true believer, the bolding is for the science based people.
>
> The 1990 IPCC report goes on at length about this as well, but strangely enough, there isn’t a single html version of it online. Anywhere. Yet.
>
> But there is zero doubt that warming NH winters is a key prediction of increasing greenhouse gases. That the twenty year trend 1995-2014 is so different than the predictions, it’s the sort of thing that drives a true believer into a blank stare, some sort of mental freeze up, or worse.
>
> Here’s those winter trends that I’ve posted a dozen times now.
>
> [last twenty years winter trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1996&year2=2014&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob)
> Check out the zonal mean and compare with the warming [twenty year trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1980&year2=1999&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob).
>
> It’s so obvious, even a true believer can see it.
>
> [The trend since 2002](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=2002&year2=2014&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob) is much more extreme, and mostly to illustrate what a colder NH winter trend looks like, it’s a short period. Somehow 17 years became the length of time needed, which is interesting, since [the 17 year trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1997&year2=2014&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob) is also really obvious as well.
>
> It’s become such a problem in the war of perception, that now we see more and more “experts” and stories about how “global warming” is “causing” the colder winters, at the same time some people are still trying to say there is no trend towards colder NH winters. It’s a most interesting time to be alive.
>
> No really it is. At the same time, right now. there are a half dozen different stories being fed in various ways by various groups and believers, trying to spin things, attempts to influence what people “believe” about climate change.
>
> None of which changes anything, except for the people busy altering the data of course. They actually matter, but not in a good way.
>
> The problem with presenting links to GISS pages, is that it is impossible to actually refute it with the usual “that’s not what the experts say”, since the linked pages are actually from the experts. Both the data as well as the explanations of how warming is causing the stronger polar vortex which leads to warmer winters. (there’s more on this at the first two links)
>
> Ain’t that a hoot?
That’s not a “key prediction” but a result of AGW.
---
### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2431 "2014-04-24T02:55:46Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#):
>
> I leave it up to the reader to understand why predictions and calculations made during the 80s and 90s (and to this day) about how and why greenhouse gases would lead to drastic warming, which would be most obvious in the NH boreal winters.
>
> Such a warming was observed from 1970-2000 and was considered prime evidence that greenhouse gases were driving the warming. Warming was considered the cause of a stronger polar vortex, which kept the arctic air in winter bottled up, making the US, Europe and Asia warmer in winter.
>
> The essential points of the GISS data and models was that a positive feedback from warming would lead to even more warming, which would be most evident in winter. More rain and less snow. Milder winters, leading to even more warming of high latitudes. Many warnings were published, ranging from damage to winter wheat, invasive species moving north, polar bears going extinct, permafrost loss and methane release, and on and on. hand wringing and demands to do something now were common. Still are actually.
>
> Meanwhile, in the real world, winters got colder, with much more snow.
>
> Of course not a single person who spent the last twenty years predicting warmer winters, with less snow, has ever come out and said anything close to “we were wrong about this”. Oh no. And they never will.
>
> Instead we already hear “global warming is causing the colder winters”. Which is exactly why I started off complaining about global warming. because of a record cold day in August.
>
> If global warming can make it colder, then of course colder August temperatures can also be blamed on global warming.
>
> Global warming, I’m so sick of it.
Global warming does not refer to warmer winters but to increasing global temperature anomaly. That, in turn, may lead to extreme weather conditions.
---
### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2432 "2014-04-24T03:04:21Z")
“NASA Study; Cal. Drought, Polar Vortex, El Nino, Linked To Global Warming.”
> **[NASA Study; Cal. Drought, Polar Vortex, El Nino, Linked To Global Warming.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2014/04/18/1292809/-NASA-Study-Cal-Drought-Polar-Vortex-El-Nino-Linked-To-Global-Warming)**
>
> A new NASA sponsored study in the journal Geophysical Research Letters is showing a connection between the collapse of the Polar vortex, the California drought, and the rise of the monster El Nino ...
---
### Author:  [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2433 "2014-04-24T17:29:59Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> He has essentially no understanding of the actual issues involved, for him it’s all about the feelz.
Or it’s all about being smugly correct, no matter what. Like the example we now have on the page here.
> [@ralfy](#):
>
> “NASA Study; Cal. Drought, Polar Vortex, El Nino, Linked To Global Warming.”
>
> [NASA Study; Cal. Drought, Polar Vortex, El Nino, Linked To Global Warming.](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/18/1292809/-NASA-Study-Cal-Drought-Polar-Vortex-El-Nino-Linked-To-Global-Warming)
So a weak polar vortex is now blamed for the colder winters, and also blamed on greenhouse gases. Just like the warming winters were blamed on greenhouse gases.
> [@](#):
>
> Drew Shindell, an atmospheric scientist from NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies and Columbia University, NY, found that the large warming that has occurred during Northern Hemisphere winters over the last 30 years — up to nine degrees Fahrenheit, a full 10 times warmer than the global average 0.9 degree Fahrenheit warming — is likely a result of human activities that increase greenhouse gases.
Of course it’s always “likely” or “might be” or “it could happen”, which is how science works. After the fact science predicts what will likely happen. That is sarcasm for the humor impaired btw
In essence, when the winter trend was warming, that was due to greenhouse gas increase. Now greenhouse gas increase is responsible for colder winters.
The only part left is to blame rising greenhouse gases for the global mean temperature going down. (which is has, for 17 years according to satellite data).
So if it’s warming, it’s greenhouse gases. If it’s cooling, it’s greenhouse gases. This is how science works. Nobody can stand before SCIENCE!
That was also sarcasm for you fuckheads who just don’t get it
---
### Author:  [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2434 "2014-04-24T17:33:28Z")
In case you don’t know, warming actually is already blamed for the cooling. The increased winds, due to warming, have buried the ocean heat in the deep layers, which is why the oceans are cooling.
Winds are also blamed for Antarctica cooling, but in that case the ozone depletion is considered the cause of the increased winds. The stronger circumpolar vortex, due to heating from ozone depletion, blowing around the south pole “protects” the south pole from warming.
No, that is not a made up thing.
---
### Author:  [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2435 "2014-04-24T17:38:45Z")
The 1990 IPCC report is cautious about the predictions from the enhanced greenhouse effect. While the modelers went ahead and used an amplified winter warming as a positive feedback, leading to their predictions about drastic and rapid global warming, wiser heads noted that it was actually an unknown, and there was no way to know what the effect of an enhanced greenhouse effect actually would be.
Some scientists, a minority of course, proposed the enhanced greenhouse effect would lead to unexpected consequences, including a rapid increase in snow and ice, changes in ocean and wind patterns, and could cause extreme cooling, amplified by volcanoes, leading to colder winters, with dangerous amounts of ice and snow.
This view was difficult to defend due to the obvious extreme warming trend that was happening in the NH winters.
Now, it might be another story.
Science, it’s a lurching monster, blown by the wind.
---
### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2014, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2436 "2014-04-25T02:34:58Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#):
>
> Or it’s all about being smugly correct, no matter what. Like the example we now have on the page here.
>
> So a weak polar vortex is now blamed for the colder winters, and also blamed on greenhouse gases. Just like the warming winters were blamed on greenhouse gases.
More details in the articles shared.
> [@](#):
>
> Of course it’s always “likely” or “might be” or “it could happen”, which is how science works. After the fact science predicts what will likely happen. That is sarcasm for the humor impaired btw
Indeed, but the argument works both ways.
> [@](#):
>
> In essence, when the winter trend was warming, that was due to greenhouse gas increase. Now greenhouse gas increase is responsible for colder winters.
More details in the NAS final report.
> [@](#):
>
> The only part left is to blame rising greenhouse gases for the global mean temperature going down. (which is has, for 17 years according to satellite data).
>
> So if it’s warming, it’s greenhouse gases. If it’s cooling, it’s greenhouse gases. This is how science works. Nobody can stand before SCIENCE!
>
> That was also sarcasm for you fuckheads who just don’t get it
Global mean temperature did not go down in the long term:
> **[The Escalator](https://skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=47)**
>
> Examines the science and arguments of global warming skepticism. Common objections like 'global warming is caused by the sun', 'temperature has changed naturally in the past' or 'other planets are warming too' are examined to see what the science...
Also, one should consider multiple sources of measurements:
[http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=4](http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=4)
---
### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2437 "2014-04-25T02:37:34Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#):
>
> In case you don’t know, warming actually is already blamed for the cooling. The increased winds, due to warming, have buried the ocean heat in the deep layers, which is why the oceans are cooling.
>
> Winds are also blamed for Antarctica cooling, but in that case the ozone depletion is considered the cause of the increased winds. The stronger circumpolar vortex, due to heating from ozone depletion, blowing around the south pole “protects” the south pole from warming.
>
> No, that is not a made up thing.
From what I know, ocean heat content has been rising.
---
### Author:  [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2438 "2014-04-25T02:44:15Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#):
>
> The 1990 IPCC report is cautious about the predictions from the enhanced greenhouse effect. While the modelers went ahead and used an amplified winter warming as a positive feedback, leading to their predictions about drastic and rapid global warming, wiser heads noted that it was actually an unknown, and there was no way to know what the effect of an enhanced greenhouse effect actually would be.
>
> Some scientists, a minority of course, proposed the enhanced greenhouse effect would lead to unexpected consequences, including a rapid increase in snow and ice, changes in ocean and wind patterns, and could cause extreme cooling, amplified by volcanoes, leading to colder winters, with dangerous amounts of ice and snow.
>
> This view was difficult to defend due to the obvious extreme warming trend that was happening in the NH winters.
>
> Now, it might be another story.
>
> Science, it’s a lurching monster, blown by the wind.
From what I gathered, conclusions are cautious because governments are the ones that release the final report:
“IPCC report summary censored by governments around the world”
> **[IPCC report summary censored by governments around the world](https://www.smh.com.au/world/ipcc-report-summary-censored-by-governments-around-the-world-20140414-zqugm.html)**
>
> Berlin: A major climate report presented to the world was censored by the very governments who requested it, frustrating and angering some of its lead authors.
The reason for this is that governments work with businesses, which in turn tend to be conservative when it looks at this issue:
“Climate Risks Have Been Underestimated for the Last 20 Years”
[http://www.alternet.org/environment/climate-risks-have-been-underestimated-last-20-years](http://www.alternet.org/environment/climate-risks-have-been-underestimated-last-20-years)
In relation to that:
“How the IPCC Underestimated Climate Change”
> **[How the IPCC Underestimated Climate Change](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-ipcc-underestimated-climate-change/)**
>
> Here are just eight examples of where the IPCC missed predictions
Finally, multiple positive feedbacks enumerated here have to be considered:
[http://guymcpherson.com/2013/01/climate-change-summary-and-update/](http://guymcpherson.com/2013/01/climate-change-summary-and-update/)
---
### Author:  [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2439 "2014-04-25T16:28:07Z")
> [@ralfy](#):
>
> From what I know, ocean heat content has been rising.
> [@ralfy](#):
>
> “NASA Study; Cal. Drought, Polar Vortex, El Nino, Linked To Global Warming.”
>
> [NASA Study; Cal. Drought, Polar Vortex, El Nino, Linked To Global Warming.](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/18/1292809/-NASA-Study-Cal-Drought-Polar-Vortex-El-Nino-Linked-To-Global-Warming)
You either missed all the points, or are just handwaving them aside and doing the exact same thing. Or something. Who the fuck can tell? It’s exactly what the GIGOs of the climate alarmist movement do. When the winters were trending warmer, that was considered global warming (AGW), now that they are trending colder, that is AGW. The alarmist can’t see the problem. If you can’t view reality, see what is actually happening, you are lost. Like this complete fuckhead below.
> [@](#):
>
> All of which is a long way of saying that the global warming deniers have won. And please, can I have no emails from bed-wetting kidults blubbing that you can’t call us "global warming deniers " because “denier” makes us sound like “Holocaust deniers”, and that means you are comparing us to Nazis? The evidence for man-made global warming is as final as the evidence of Auschwitz. No other word will do.
> **[The climate change deniers have won | Nick Cohen](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/22/climate-change-deniers-have-won-global-warming)**
>
> Nick Cohen: Scientists continue to warn us about global warming, but most of us have a vested interest in not wanting to think about it
You see? That fossil fuel guzzling fuckhead, sitting in his air conditioned office typing away on fossil fuel powered computers and enjoying his fossil fuel powered lights and food, he sits in judgement, spewing his hatred and fear, and he can’t get it. He just is clueless in the extreme.
He actually believes there is some vast conspiracy, that “they” are responsible for the planet’s doom, and that he is a blameless good guy, sounding the alarm. As long as he doesn’t have to change anything, or lift a finger, and as long as he gets his fossil fuels, and lives in comfort, he will spew forth venom and lies, and sleep like a baby at night.
That is the very sort of person who wants to tell the world what to do, as long as he doesn’t have to do it.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/2440 "2014-04-25T20:22:55Z")
Rep. Michael Grimm (R-NY), formerly a climate-change skeptic, changed his mind [after researching the issue](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/25/someone_actually_managed_to_convince_a_gop_climate_denier_to_change_his_mind/).
Excuse me, I have to go wash some pigshit out of my hair.
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